It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Nazareth- the town theology built

page: 1

log in


posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 04:00 PM
Nazareth- the town theology built?

video about it-

Here are some interesting links which talk about an interesting issue about Jesus. What if there was no Nazareth at that time, or, what if he wasn't really there? Apparently, it did not exist historically at the time period of Jesus or until after the 4th century

Modern Scholarship has found many instances where modern bible contains bad translations from the original greek texts. One example is the mistranslation "Jesus of Nazareth". This became mistranslated into being understood as Jesus coming from the town of "Nazareth". However, modern archaeology shows that no such town existed at that time. We now know the proper translatation was "Jesus the Nazarene", meaning Jesus the Essene. The Essenes were a third group of Monastic Jews who would live in Monasteries near the Dead Sea in Jesus' day, who's teachings were at odds with those of the Saducees and Pharisees in the Jerusalem Temple of the time.-

However when we look for historical confirmation of this hometown of a god – surprise, surprise! – no other source confirms that the place even existed in the 1st century AD.

• Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list.

• The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature.

• St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all.

• No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. It is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century.

The expression 'Jesus of Nazareth' is actually a bad translation of the original Greek 'Jesous o Nazoraios'. More accurately, we should speak of 'Jesus the Nazarene' where Nazarene has a meaning quite unrelated to a place name. But just what is that meaning and how did it get applied to a small village? The highly ambiguous Hebrew root of the name is NZR.

The 2nd century gnostic Gospel of Philip offers this explanation:

'The apostles that came before us called him Jesus Nazarene the Christ ..."Nazara" is the "Truth". Therefore 'Nazarene' is "The One of the Truth" ...'
(Gospel of Philip, 47)

What we do know is that 'Nazarene' was originally the name of an early Jewish-Christian sect – a faction, or off-shoot, of the Essenes. They had no particular relation to a city of Nazareth. The root of their name may have been 'Truth' or it may have been the Hebrew noun 'netser' ('netzor'), meaning 'branch' or 'flower.' The plural of 'Netzor' becomes 'Netzoreem.'

So to be sure, Jesus did exist as a real spiritual teacher. He was an Essene teacher. An Essene teacher who was to come out and teach a bit more publically to succeed and surpass Jon the Baptist who was also an Essene. Jesus wrote the original version of the new testament so it is possible there is a gospel for every disciple

Video clips about their beliefs a little bit and about Jesus, Jon the Baptist, and their connections to the Essenes

The Essenes were a third religious sect during the time of Christ that lived away from the towns. Instead they lived in simple communities. The Essenes practiced the seventh day sabbath, believed in reincarnation, non-violence to all living creatures and the sharing of all material possesions. They were uninvolved in the politics of the Sadducees and Pharisees and shunned publicity. Because of the discovery of dead sea scroll material, this ancient sect and their teachings are back alive. The dead sea scrolls were hidden by this ancient people long ago in the caves of Qumram. Josephus writing around 80 A.D. said that the Essenes were Jews by birth but seemed to have a greater affection for one another than they did for the Pharisees and Sadducees. Their piety toward God was extraordinary. They wore chitw garments. They used no profanity. They were ministers of peace and they spent a great deal of time studying the writings of the ancients.

The Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1945, yet it took 50 years for the information to leak out about thes extraordinary people. What was so shocking to the scholars who examined the ancient documents was that there was a community of people practicing Christianity, or something very close to it, for at least 200 years before the time of Christ. Both the practice of baptism and of the sharing of the wine are recorded as part of their practices long before Jesus and John the Baptist popularized them.

a history page

The Essenes were known to dress in robes I think. And yet at times wore regular clothes

Some sites with info about the Essenes

Actual historical acount by a scholar from the time of the Essenes. Doesn't mean everything is exactly accurate, but these historians lived in the same time period

posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 04:01 PM
Some historical quotes-

"They possess nothing of their own, not house, field, slave nor flocks, nor anything which feeds and procures wealth. They live together in brotherhoods, and eat in common together. Everything they do is for the common good of the group. They work at many different jobs and attack their work with amazing zeal and dedication, working from before sunrise to almost sunset without complaint, but in obvious exhilaration. Their exercise is their work. Indeed, they believe their own training to be more agreeable to body and soul, and more lasting, than athletic games, since their exercises remain fitted to their age, even when the body no longer possesses its full strength"

"They neither buy nor sell anything among themselves. They give to each other freely and feel no need to repay anything in exchange. Before sunrise they recite certain ancestral prayers to the sun as though entreating it to rise. They work until about 11 A.M. when they put on ritual loincloths and bathe for purification. Then they enter a communal hall,where no one else is allowed,and eat only one bowlful of food for each man, ! together with their loaves of bread. They eat in silence. Afterwards they lay aside their sacred garment and go back to work until the evening. At evening they partake dinner in the same manner. During meals they are sober and quiet and their silence seems a great mystery to people outside. Their food and drink are so measured out that they are satisfied but no more. They see bodily pleasure as sinful. On the whole they do nothing unless ordered by their superiors, but two things they are allowed to do on their own discretion: to help those 'worthy of help', and to offer food to the needy. They are not allowed, however, to help members of their own families without permission from superiors. They are very careful not to exhibit their anger, carefully controlling such outbursts. They are very loyal and are peacemakers. They refuse to swear oaths, believing every word they speak to be stronger than an oath. They are scrupulous students of the ancient literature. They are ardent students in the healing of diseases, of the roots offering protection, and of the properties of stones. Those desiring to enter the sect are not allowed immediate entrance. They are made to wait outside for a period of one year."

"They believe that their souls are immortal, but that their bodies are corruptible. They believe the soul is trapped in the body and is freed with death. "

"Some of the Essenes became expert in forecasting the future."

"When they enter the sect, they must surrender all of their money and possessions into the common fund, to be put at the disposal of everyone; one single property for the whole group. Therefore neither the humiliation of poverty nor the pride of possession is to be seen anywhere among them."

The first reference to the Essenes comes from Josephus, writing about the death of Antigonus in 103 B.C. Josephus relates that the Essenes had an uncanny ability to successfully predict future events, and that the death of Antigonus at the hands of his brother, Aristobulus, ruler of Judea, had been accurately forecast by an Essene named Judas. (2.)

Josephus states that 'Judas was an Essene born and bred, indicating that he had been born into the movement at least a few decades earlier.

Their theology was dominated by apocalyptic ideas, in which there were confrontations between God (the power of light) and Belial (the power of the earth and darkness). The Essenes saw themselves as the soldiers of God, and they prepared for participation in battle.

Jesus the Nazarene

Jesus Christ teacher of Rightousness


Real Taoist mudra

also, an article talking about those types of portraits a little bit-

5000 years ago, ancient spiritual tradition of India spoke of a universal source of all life. The energy called prana. This universal energy is the breath of life moves through all forms to give them life. Yogis work with this energy with breathing techniques, meditation, and physical exercise to produce altered states of consciousness and longevity
3,000 years ago, the ancient Qigong masters in China were practicing their meditative discipline to balance and invigorate the human energy field. They called this vital energy that pervades all forms, both animate and inanimate, Qi. The Qi is the vital energy of the body; while gong means the skill of moving this Qi and working with it. Practitioners use mind control to move and control the Qi to not only improve health and longevity, but also to enhance awareness, psychic powers, and spiritual development. The ancient Qigong masters also developed Tai Chi, Kung Fu, and the martial arts. In addition, they made the first model for acupuncture. Acupuncturists insert needles, or use moxa, or put magnets at specific acupuncture points to balance the yin and yang of the human energy field. When the Qi is balanced, the entity has good health. When the Qi is unbalanced, the entity has poor or impaired health.
The Kabbalah, the Jewish mystical teachings written about 538 B.C., calls these energies the astral light. Later on, Christian paintings and sculptures show a halo around the head of Christ and other spiritual leaders. Similarly, we see this halo on statues and paintings of Buddha, and also see energy or light coming from the fingers of many of the gods of India.

posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 04:05 PM
Jesus in India

Some stuff on the "Tomb of Jesus" in Kashmir-

Another article-

So basically what it says, is that high level scholors are saying there is a Jewish grave in Kashmir India, about 1900 to 2000 years old, about the right time period. It has carved feet imprints at the grave, but the carved imprints have crucifix wounds.

And that there are legitimate eastern historical texts which tell of stories of a teacher from the west who was tortured by his people but then came east at that time.

The wise men came from the east, and Jesus spent time in Egypt perhaps as well

Of course there will be many stories and rumors about the "lost years" of Jesus' life, most point to the east

The Unknown Life of Jesus Christ
Nicholas Notovich

Editor's Introduction

In 1887, a Russian, Nicholas Notovich, journeyed to India to study Hindu culture. (Today we would call him an anthropologist.) Eventually Notovich arrived in Ladakh on the northern border of India, from whence he intended to return to Russia through Karakorum and Chinese Turkestan. While in Ladakh he was told by the abbot of a Buddhist monastery that manuscripts recording the life of Jesus were to be found in Lhasa-at that time absolutely closed to any "white" man, as was the entire country of Tibet. Despite this prohibition, Notovich determined to force his way to Lhasa in search of the rumored records. While still in Leh, the capital of Ladakh, Notovich visited the monastery of Himis and spoke with its abbot. When he asked the abbot if he knew anything of Isha, was amazed to receive this reply:

"The name of Isha is held in great respect by the Buddhists, But little is known about him save by the chief lamas, who have read the scrolls relative to his life....Among [the manuscripts of our monastery library] are to be found descriptions of the life and acts of the Buddha Isha, who preached the holy doctrine in India and among the children of Israel and who was put to death by the pagans, whose descendants have since embraced the tenets he then propagated,....

"The great Buddha, Soul of the Universe is the incarnation of Brahma. He remains almost always in passivity, preserving within himself all things from the beginning of time, and his breath vivifies the world. Having abandoned man to his own resources, he yet at certain epochs comes forth from his inertia, taking upon himself a human form to save his creatures from irremediable ruin.

"During his earthly existence, Buddha crates a new world among his scattered people. And after having fulfilled his task, he leaves the earth to reassume his invisible condition and his life of perfect bliss.

"Three thousand years ago, the great Buddha became incarnate in the celebrated prince Sakyamuni, thus continuing the scheme of his twenty incarnations....Simultaneously with the advent of Buddhism in China, its tenets were diffused amongst the Israelites [by Isha].

"Nearly two thousand years ago the perfect Being, again breaking through his state of inaction, became incarnate in the newborn infant of a poor family. It was his will that a child in simple words should enlighten the ignorant as to the life eternal-by his own example, bringing men back to the ways of truth in setting before them the paths most surely leading to the attainment of moral purity.

"When the holy child was still a boy, he was taken to India, where until manhood he studied the laws of the great Buddha who dwells eternally in heaven....

"The documents [about Isha] brought from India to Nepal and from Nepal to Tibet concerning his existence are written in the Pali language and are now in Lhasa. But a copy in our language-that is, the Tibetan-exists in this monastery."

There have been found Gospels of other Disciples, not just the ones in the modern Bible. Ultimately the teacher of it all is Jesus, and the first copy ever of the NT Bible was written by Jesus. It is not surpirsing that he would write about all his disciples, or that his disciples would also translate them and write down their notes on his teachings and pass them down. Even other simple texts like dietary teachings were once included.

Gospel of Mary Magdalene- Banned from the Bible

Video about the Gospel of Judas

Gospels of Judas and Mary Magdalene

[edit on 8-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 01:35 PM
I recall reading somewhere that Jesus was a Nazarene, a religious sect, and that Nazareth was named so because of all the Nazarene's there, not the other way around.

This implies some kind of Mystery Religion in my mind, and portrays Jesus as the renegade sect leader who began giving away secrets of healing and magic to all and sundry. No wonder they had him killed.

posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 02:42 PM
Yes, the disagreements between Jesus and the Temple priests can be viewed as a conflict between the teachings of the Essenes vs. the teachings of the Pharisees and Saducees.

Another interesting thing is that the differences between Jesus and Judas can be seen as the difference between the philosophy of the Essenes vs. The Zealots. The Essenes were mostly pacifict but the Zealots wanted to fight the Romans. I know some of Jesus's diciples had been Zaelots at one time and it is most likely Judas had been a Zealot before he began to Follow Jesus.

posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 02:49 PM
There were two sects in that time Nazerenes and Nazarites. Both worshiped in the temple and both were defined by the other Jews as heretics.

A Nazarene or Nazarite is not an Essene, however both were closer in beliefs to the Essenes than the other two dominant Jewish groups, and may have met with Essenes for some religious purposes.

posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 02:52 PM
I was under the impression that Nazarite sort of referred to a race of people, where Nazarene referred to a specfic sect of Judaism and was a branch of the Essenes. That might not be totally correct, so correct me if' i'm wrong, but that was how I had understood the 2 terms.

[edit on 9-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

posted on Jun, 14 2008 @ 09:41 PM
In any case i think it's pretty obvious Jesus was an Essene, this is a pretty interesting topic, christianity didn't just magically appear out of no where.

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:00 PM

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
I recall reading somewhere that Jesus was a Nazarene, a religious sect, and that Nazareth was named so because of all the Nazarene's there, not the other way around.

This implies some kind of Mystery Religion in my mind, and portrays Jesus as the renegade sect leader who began giving away secrets of healing and magic to all and sundry. No wonder they had him killed.

It seems to go even further. The whole idea of the even being an actual city of Nazareth was a mistranslation of the original greek text the bible was written in.

Then 400 years later a town was built to match the theology that had developed in the church

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:06 PM
I've seen a lot of New Agers make these claims about Nazareth, and there wrong, really wrong.

Nazareth is an Aramaic and Hebrew word for LILY. That's why the lily figures into the iconography of the Annunciation to Mary. It is the symbolic clue that this took place in Nazareth.

There are archaeological excavations in several places in the city. I didn't get to go down into it, but the Sisters fo Nazareth are supposed to have their convent built on "The Tomb of the Just One", and the layers under their convent show a Byzantine basilica from Helen's time was built there and the layers go down to first century houses and a first century tomb.

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:12 PM

Originally posted by splendourinthegrass
Nazareth is an Aramaic and Hebrew word for LILY.

Yes, that is correct. I've been in the dig under the Sisters' convent. It is most impressive work and amazing structural evidence.

For those interested the Muslims and the Christians in Nazareth say that the "Tomb of the Just One" is under that convent.

By the "Just One" they mean Joseph the tekton, the master builder, the Carpenter.

I'm not sure how these people came up with the idea that Nazareth was a fiction, but I know a Chaldean priest who thinks their claims are a real hoot. I love to hear him tell all of the wild and wacky theories he has had to debunk over the years. He moved to Mosul, and I pray he is safe.

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:16 PM
reply to post by Hollywood11

The Knanaya Christians of Kerala, India claim to be the descendants of a christian sect called "the Nazarenes" and they claim Jesus and Mary as members of their hebrew sect.

They had a unique Gospel book called the Gospel of the Nazarenes -- known to the earliest church writers like Origen -- but when the Roman Catholic Portuguese ruled Kerala, the Catholic archbishop ordererd all copies of the Gospel of the Nazarenes and their version of the Gospel of Thomas to be gathered up and burned.

Perhaps there are copies in the Vatican archives or hidden away in Kerala, but the official story is that there are no more copies of the Gospel of the Nazarenes in the world.

The Knanaya Christians claim the Essenes were closely related to them.

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:19 PM
That's interesting also because I seem to recall hearing about a story that St. Thomas went to the east

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:20 PM

Originally posted by Hollywood11

It seems to go even further. The whole idea of the even being an actual city of Nazareth was a mistranslation of the original greek text the bible was written in.

Then 400 years later a town was built to match the theology that had developed in the church

I really don't want to be a killjoy, but that idea is built on very poor scholarship.

We don't look just to one Greek text to make these determinations. We look to the Peshi.tta, the Aramaic text, to Ethiopic, Syriac, Armenian, Georgian, and other texts. We then look at the early christian writers and see how they understood the text. And once you've done that work -- from textual evidence alone -- it is clear that Nazareth is a tiny little town in the Galilee that has been there at least since the time of Jesus. Then you add the architectural/archaeological evidence to it and the case is closed.

[edit on 6/7/08 by Pellevoisin]

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:23 PM
As far as I'm aware there is no archaeological evidence of a Gallilean town by that name prior to the 4th century, this is why some people haved called it "the town theology built". A town called Nazareth exists now, but no proof it existed at the time of Jesus.

The oldest texts of the NT are all Greek, so the greek translations are what we have to look at to understand the true meaning. It's appears to pretty much be a misinterpretation of the meaning of "nazarene".

[edit on 6-7-2008 by Hollywood11]

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Hollywood11
As far as I'm aware there is no archaeological evidence of a Gallilean town by that name prior to the 4th century, this is why some people haved called it "the town theology built". A town called Nazareth exists now, but no proof it existed at the time of Jesus.

The oldest texts of the NT are all Greek, so the greek translations are what we have to look at to understand the true meaning. It's appears to pretty much be a misinterpretation of the meaning of "nazarene".

[edit on 6-7-2008 by Hollywood11]

Please see my post earlier on this thread. I have been in the dig under the convent. There is plenty, plenty of archaeological evidence.

The Chaldeans and Assyrian Christians will gladly debate you on the subject of their Aramaic scriptures not being older than the Greek. The prejudices on the Greek texts come from the nineteenth century German protestant theologians.

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:48 PM
reply to post by Pellevoisin

When I was last in Nazareth there was a great deal of excitement around the tunnels underground that were found going around St. Mary's Well. The earliest level dated before that excavation had to stop went down to the era of the Roman occupation.

The question is not about Nazareth's existence. The legitimate question in my mind is what does it mean by saying Jesus is a "Nazarene" and where was the prophecy to be found that was cited in the New Testament "He shall be called a Nazarene."

posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 12:03 PM
I saw a program on PBS about the Sepulcher in Jerusalem. An archeologist found where Jesus was born and it is not in Nazareth. That doesn't mean they won't find interesting sites there.

top topics


log in