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'Anything Not to Go Back'

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posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


US combat troops were first committed to Vietnam in April 1965 when the US Marines landed at Danang. Prior to that the only US military personnel in Vietnam had been advisers to the South Vietnamese Army.

At that time the draft was in effect, however, I'm not sure how much it was used, but it soon escalated and before my entry into the service in 1967, I recall everyone signing up for the Reserves and the National Guard. I remember long lines of people waiting to get married before marriage ceased to be a reason for draft ineligibility.

On December 1, 1969 a draft lottery was instituted in which numbers were drawn and an eligible male would have some idea of what his chances of being drafted might be.

usmilitary.about.com...
www.cnn.com...

[edit on 2008/6/9 by GradyPhilpott]




posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


COWARDS !

there i said it - happy now

PS - before you or anyone else replies - please consider for one second this question :

what is the Raison d'être of a military body ?

thankyou



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I don't know about you, but I hate those kind of comment, do people not have compassion in this world? where's the love? I find these kind of comments pathetic. And it worries me about the way some people think. Brainwashed maybe?
[edit on 9-6-2008 by _Phoenix_]


I think that folks who have already been there (regardless of the number of times) have every right to call these people what they are.

How can you have compassion for someone who breaks a legal contract? They knew the risks going in, and decided that it was just too difficult for them to do anymore.

Boo Frickin Hoo.



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by COOL HAND
 


I agree, anyone has every right to say what they want about another person. Although, unless you have lived in that persons shoes you wont have there experince. Have you ever killed anyone? I have! I am an OIF1 vet. I can tell you from experience that killing someone while under fire is the easy part. It's living with yourself afterward that is the hard part. I have nightmares still and its been almost 4 years since I was there. Would I injury myself to prevent going back, no but I will do everything I can to not go back. I am currently out of the army and trynig my best to stay under the radar. I did my 4 years and am enjoying life as a college student. To call someone a coward beacuse they dont want to go back and commet murder is cowardly in itself. Have you picked up a gun and murder someone? Probably not. These men and women are putting there life's on the line and taking others to secure your freedom (the irony in it all) so show them some repsect if they dont want to murder any more. I will admit i joined when I was young and dumb, but I truely didnt understand what i was getting into and what effects it would have on me later. I dont agree with there methods of avoiding combat, because there are other ways, but dont call them cowards. They have seen the face of death and believe me it will never leave you alone again.



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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The fight should be an all voluntary picnic. Than when they whine about being shot at, we can tell em, well, you volunteered to be shot at and very possibly killed or maimed for life. You wanted to play bad guy good guy games and now you wanna complain of being shot back at..

See my signature below....................

So now when blackwaters or haliburtons guys or any mercenaries cry foul. They wanted in, they wanted to show off there cunning and killer instinct skills, there desire to make big money where the action is.

For those who know its wrong and want to enjoy life at home with mom/dad or girlfriend(s) wife. You should have that choice for free rather than be labeled.

Anyone wanna be killed or maimed on a foreign soil battle front for the neo/nazi cons.



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Peepers
 


I'm not sure what side you are trying to be on. I agree if you volunteer to go then go and accpet whatever happens. Although once your there and realize what you have gotten into is it fair that they make you stay? Yes finish your tour and do your job, but when your back home and living with the guilt and fear of what you did why should we make these people go back and do it again. I know I dont want someone watching my back that dosent want to raid a house. matter of fact I had a guy like that. He almost got me killed.

p.s. leaving work i'll be on later int he afternoon

[edit on 9-6-2008 by hILB3rT]



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by hILB3rT
 



Its simply like our prison systems. You make a mistake, get convicted and serve time. You are now there's and they do with you as they will. You get out, think ah, I'm all done with this but your on there list for life. So getting back in can be as simple as being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You can either die in prison or die on some foreign soil for some one elses twisted agenda.

Survive, you do get bragging rights if that makes it worth the trip.

The only thing I will defend is my own freedom on my soil I have my life sitting on right now.

Neo/nazi cons are not our friends, there thinking/actions will get you maimed or killed as the sig below suggests.



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND
I think that folks who have already been there (regardless of the number of times) have every right to call these people what they are.


That may be what they are according to you but not all of us are so enthusiastic about killing people and i would very much like to presume that the majority of American citizens who do not join the US army for financial reasons ACTUALLY do so at least partly because they feel they are helping to defend their country. When such individuals find out that they are not defending anyone but themselves from people who would never have attacked them if they stayed home i can imagine why they would consider breaking their 'contracts' which after all does rest of the premise that it's in defense of the USA.


How can you have compassion for someone who breaks a legal contract?


So you have never ever broken any type of payment contract? You have never owed anyone more money that you agreed to at the start? Don't you think life and death issues can be considered with more compassion in mind?


They knew the risks going in, and decided that it was just too difficult for them to do anymore.

Boo Frickin Hoo.


How do you know that they understood the risks when the recruiter promised them the moon, sky and a half decent pay? What do even educated kids understand at typical recruitment age? Since when can't we reconsider our priorities when we have become better informed by experiences , of war in this case, of whatever situations our inexperience got us into?

Have you at least served your country and were your country fighting wars against countries that never attacked it and then on foreign soil against a largely faceless enemy? What is your particular expertise on this issue?

Stellar



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


In November 1965, approximately 30% of my platoon in basic were 'draftees' (MCRD San Diego). One serious suicide attempt...many others that simply didn't want to be there. Yes, even the US Marine Corp was drafting during that period.

Peace



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Animal
 


The reason why the soldiers want to stay out of Iraq is because you can't even consider it to be a real "war zone". The soldiers do nothing but patrol the streets all day, forcing the Bush administration's propaganda violently down the throats of the Middle East.

Then on top of it, Haliburton has privatised this war to the point that they control everything our soldiers do. And Haliburton is treating the soldiers like animals:

youtube.com...



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by dalan.
 



I blame Halliburton for their wasteful procedures. But I blame the gov't agencies that write the contracts that allow this plundering to continue even more than I do KBR.



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 05:01 PM
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I myself have seen people like this before. I have completed 2 tours in Iraq and a tour in Bosnia (Mid 90s) and after my departure from the Army i did a bit of CP work in Sierra Leone.

Luckily for me i do not or have not yet suffered from any type of post traumatic stress and believe me i have seen some extremely traumatic things. Does it make me harder? NO it doesnt far from it. Im just fortunate to be able to get on with things. As for some other people they are superb Soldiers and totally the best at what they do however when the SHTF they fall apart mentally.

I kid you not these type of people should be praised more. They know in the back of their head they may not like what they see but they still go through the intense training and give it a go. I respect all Soldiers regardless of if they hack it or not when the SHTF for at least having the balls to give it a go. Ive never been left men down because they ran off they have always completed their job then collapsed mentally afterwards

1995 I remember one of my colleagues breaking his knee with a hammer because he was adamant he did not want to return to Bosnia. Another person went awol for 4 months because he was scared however on his return after being reprimanded was probably the best soldier out the lot of us and was there at the front of every battle.

Dont diss these guys. Yes they should have understood what they were getting themselves in for when they joined. Over here in UK we have a proffesional military and some kids join purely because there is nothing out there for them.

RESPECT TO ALL THAT FOUGHT AND A PRAYER TO ALL WHO FALL



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 05:04 PM
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good find..

much love to our troops...i wish they could get out of there and spend time with family..

war sucks and is a complete scam



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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I know guys who have been deployed 4 and 5 times. In fact one guy I know JUST GOT BACK, only to be told by his commanding officer that they were being re-deployed within a couple of days.

I'm ready to defend my country, but this stuff makes me sick. When politicians are willing and feel justified to slaughter their own children at the altar of war, then maybe I'll be inclined to go...



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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morale is crap because of: Dear John or Jane letters; Knowing you were pushed into debt and made into a 'legalized' solider-slave for whoever controls America to kill Iraqis in an illegal war waged through broken contracts; your family's suffering because they can't afford health care since you don't have extended health care, dead babies, etc your soldier's heart is going to break.

This has happened in every war fought over with money.

At least the Neocons lost their head over this... or at least they're a skeleton crew at this moment, still hovering over the nuclear trigger.



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by dalan.
 


As someone who stood in a funeral procession for a fallen soldier who was flown back to the states today, I could not agree with you more.

I know we need to be focusing on the problems in our own countries like gangs here and throughout the Americas rather than play good guy, bad guy over there. I respect the contract but is a shame this country is wasting so many resources and people, us and especially them, over what has turned into a drawn out pointless battle with no real winners. We are using an air force against an 'enemy' with no aircraft.

I believe there are enough weapons over there and enough resources for them to carry on their anti-American violence until the end of time and being in their territory is only fueling that hatred. We are doing a terrible job of 'selling' our democracy over there.



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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I honestly wish that ALL members of congress that vote for war be forced to participate in the conflict. At a minimum they should be stationed in the country of conflict and be placed on the same rotation as our soldiers in the same circumstances.

Wonder how many wars would be declared and approved if that were the case??? Really ask yourself that question and answer honestly do you think we would have nearly the level of conflict if the people who start the wars were made to fight and die in these wars??

Also I wish there was another continent or planet where all men who believe that violence and killing are the only problem solving techniques could live and kill to their hearts content...just my dream...



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 08:59 PM
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It's strange they would go to such lengths. I think all they really have to do is claim to be gay, or get a tattoo above the shoulders and they will be sent right home.



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 11:07 PM
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War is ugly. It's dirty, nasty, and brutal. And not everyone reacts the same to the stress. You just won't know how you'll react afterwards until you've done it. I've heard stories from guys in the military about how some of the guys no one thought could hack it in combat proving everyone wrong and performing perfectly, and about guys who everyone thought they could count on suddenly have a break down in the middle of a patrol or something of the sort. You just don't know. And you also have to consider, were any of these people at risk for mental illnesses before they joined (genetic predispositions, childhood problems, etc.)? So please, stop and think for a moment before you make disparaging remarks about these soldiers.



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by COOL HAND
 


Actually a lot of people DON'T know the risks going in....It is common for recruiters to lie, cheat, and steal to get their quota...When I enlisted into the national guard, I was told that we never deploy...Right after AIT I was sent to Iraq....As far as actual deployment stats go please look up the ratio of deploying guard/reserve to deploying active components. The numbers will startle you.



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