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The Religious Conspiracy Against Women

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posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 




There is a discipline under the scientific field called Archeology..also the field I think is called Paleontology. I don't exactly know the name of the scientific discipline but it has to do with Maps and studying terrain..not just currently but also looking back to ancient times as to how the land and its contours were configured. All of these are scientific disciplines.


Usually anything discovered before prehistory (written history) is speculation.There is evidence of religions but what they actually were and what the followers did is open to interpretation because at the moment we do not have enough evidence to answer these questions.The only exemption is the Indian Vedic culture.We have plenty of evidence for the Vedic faith which still exists as Hinduism,therefore we have more truth than speculation.





Very strange statement you have made here. If the catholic faith is not Christian it must be Pagan. You are using a pagan template to describe and define the shortcomings of Christianity. You don't see a problem here??


Not at all.
I'm saying that they are not Christian because they do not follow Jesus' teachings as they should,not because they have been influenced by paganism.





Not possible ...Jekyll. Our Father Abraham ..did not take part in the pagan abominations of the nations surrounding him. This is recorded..as Abraham being Faithful.


Hinduism predates the faith of the Hebrews by about 3000yrs.The influence is there for those who can/or wish to see it.You just have to research with an open mind.I've also shown you the striking parallels between Jesus and god's such as Horus.And of course Abraham was faithful,he was following a religion that had been influenced by another,he didn't leave it to worship a different faith altogether.




posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by jekyll
 



Jekyll,
Do you mean to imply here that all these pre history programs on the Boob tube about how dinosaurs lived and socialized are pure speculation?? But they are passing them on to the easily enthusiastic and gullible as fact...complete with computer animation etc.
But these are scientists...Jakyll....intrested in the "Truth." Right?? Intelligences supported by other intellilgences..gnostics..sophists, Wisemen.!!??

I bust out laughing when I see those programs and quickly reach for the remote and change the channel.

But they wouldn't be doing all this..."Computer generated animation/speculation" for votes for funds...ie..power? Would they??

Don'T misunderstand me here. I like certain disciplines of science. These disciplines have in fact made our lives more comfortable and easier. I just don't care for science when it goes into speculative religion. Right here I detect that they are becoming a priesthood/religion. And often this for political purposes..funds/power/votes.

I am just not interested in all this speculative drivel about dinosaurs.

As to the Vedic faith ..it has all the problems associated with it that is to be found in European Feudalism...no fruit which was to help the ordinary peon to rise above the subsistence/grass hut level. You can see this anywhere you go in history from the middle east...and then on east to the Pacific Ocean...all variations of Feudalism..with its dead fruit.
Same for the Western men..west of the Mid East..same fruit. Same thing here in Western Americas...no progress. A few had most of what there was to have and the rest lived at a substance level or lower.


I'm saying that they are not Christian because they do not follow Jesus' teachings as they should,not because they have been influenced by paganism.


lol lol..Jakyll..if they are not following the teachings of Jesus...and are influenced by Paganism..they are Pagan. Not difficult to understand. It is the same with so many Protestant Churches doing the very same thing..they are pagan.


Hinduism predates the faith of the Hebrews by about 3000yrs.


Various religions can put whatever dates they want on them. The principle still stands..what fruit did they bear for the ordinary peon..or did they bear fruit for only the royalties and priesthoods. Once one knows how to look through this lens...not the lens of public education standards...many things become clear.
Hinduism to this very day has not changed anything..any progress for the ordinary peon in these Hindu countries comes from Western Christian nations.
As a matter of recorded history ..Hinduism for many many years has come into conflict with another religion... which itself has produced no fruit useful in raising the standard of living of the ordinary peon...Islam. Any progress in Islamic nations has mostly come from Western Christian Nations.
You have two pagan religions fighting against each other.
Now one of these religions is a nuclear power in several countries and the other is working hard to become so. It will be interesting times.

Now Jekyll..we seem to be going around and around the central theme here and even getting off the original premise of the OP.

What you are doing or attempting to do is the standard public education mantra...of making "all religions the same religion." "All gods are the same god."

This is a standard M1 issue propaganda format of the Gnostic, sophists, wise men philosophies. You can find this dogma clearly in real occult books dealing with all the variations of occult religions...including the body politic existing today.

They have a goal of putting everyone under the same umbrella...the same religion..the same dogmas...using intelligence as the guide...sophism, gnosticism, wisemen religioins...and eventually by this ..under the same god.

To believers who know...this cannot be..it is not possible. It is also a strong indicator of the name of the god of this new religion. It is also by this very fingerprint ..a strong indicator of the name of your god.
No problem with me. I have known this from the beginning of this posting with you. I have had many dealings with those of like mind and soul.
The OP has the same fingerprint and god ..just slightly different variety. They are not as sophisticated or adept as are you.

What is known..by Believers who have done their homework...is that the Occult pagan religions come in multitudes of varieties ..many many multitudes. Many of them even attempt to pass themselves off as Christianity.

Christianity comes in only One form. This is why there have never been many Christians..never will be. They are made up of every kindred and tongue on the face of the earth..but they never will be a large number.
The Pagans will always outnumber them.

The highest levels of the women's movements..are dominantly pagan in their religious beliefs. It has to be ...simply because they have mostly sex and sexual issues at heart as a method of playing the body politic..who also use this same fingerprint to achieve and maintain power.
This is not the only political group to use this sexual fingerprint as a modus operandi to identify themselves. There are others.

Whenever I detect a group who mainly have sex and sexuality as an integral part of their modus operandi...I know immediately that I am dealing with a pagan. I know this immediately and instinctively because a Christian has no such instruction to define themselves by anything to do with their sexuality. Christians define themselves by the God who lives in them 24/7. The very antithesis of what is taught in public schools today financed by the body politic.
This is also how I know the body politic is also Pagan.

This is also ..how I know about much to do with the subject of the OP on page 1 of this thread.

I do not travel to the East..up seven steps...in search of light.....but I have known what it means for over 25 years now. I also know many forms in which it is hidden and concealed...esoterically ..from the ordinary peon.
I know how it travels in public education and the body politic in order to cultivate and nourish more "whoredom". The very same "Whoredom" of the body politic..selling, trading, and bartering the very souls of the public they claim to be looking out for...as benevolent leaders.

They have sold many many women on this Whoredom as well as by this same Whoredom..the men of many nations. As someone else on this thread appropriately and correctly stated...they have sold the soul of the Family.

America is one of the last bastions which has not totally succumbed to this Whoredom. These Wise Men are working very hard to accomplish this goal by selling the future generations to this religion/god.
Someone else on this thread..alluded to this very fingerprint..they were right on the money.

Thanks,
Orangetom




[edit on 21-10-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


You are obsessed with fruit.

What fruit has come from the faith you follow?
What country has felt the impact of it?
How many people are living better lives because of it?


And i find it funny that you think i have this 'all religions are the same religion' attitude when you yourself cannot differenciate between all the different pagan faiths.You lump them all in together.

I also find it highly amusing that you believe America hasn't totally succumbed to the 'Whoredom' you talk of.




I know this immediately and instinctively because a Christian has no such instruction to define themselves by anything to do with their sexuality.


This is because the Christian has killed the feminine element of life.There is no Goddess,no Heavenly Mother,there is only the masculine.




This is a standard M1 issue propaganda format of the Gnostic, sophists, wise men philosophies. You can find this dogma clearly in real occult books dealing with all the variations of occult religions...including the body politic existing today.


I believe Jesus was an Essene,as do many others.If this is true then the occult/gnostic practices,scriptures etc attributed to them must hold the truth.Occult:'hidden knowledge' the way to/of Jesus after all?



But Essene Nazarene Judaism was not the only form of Judaism. A violent, flesh-eating form of Judaism based on bloody animal sacrifice became the dominant religion in Israel. The nonviolent, vegetarian Essenes were persecuted by the animal sacrifice cult. Both forms of Judaism expected a Messiah: the sacrificial cult expected the Messiah to be a warrior king; the Essene Nazarenes expected a Messiah of Peace, a spiritual King. And so it was that the Messiah of Peace, the spiritual King of Israel, came to earth through the Essenes; for it was the Essene scriptures and prophecies that proved true. And so it was that the Essene Nazarene Jews, practitioners of the authentic Judaism established by God through Enoch and Moses, BECAME THE VERY FIRST CHRISTIANS!

www.essene.org...



And,

As to the Vedic faith ..it has all the problems associated with it that is to be found in European Feudalism...no fruit which was to help the ordinary peon to rise above the subsistence/grass hut level. You can see this anywhere you go in history from the middle east...


The Vedic were a very advanced culture.And the Middle East is not called the Cradle of Civilization for nothing.The cultures there had towns and cities built from stone while people in Europe and Asia were living in 'grass huts.'





[edit on 21-10-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by jekyll
 


Jekyll,


You are obsessed with fruit.


Yes...I am..simply because we are instructed to know them by their fruit. By their fruit you will know them. Learn to become a fruit inspector. Absolutely correct. Thank you.

The fruit produced by this religion when allowed to flourish is the fruit of production ..especially when tied to a sound hard biblical money system.
Individual production and prosperity...across the board. An increased standard of living for everyone across the board. This is historically demonstratable. It is called progress..not substance level living.

As to what effect it has had on the world..it has spread this progress around the globe. THe inventions and methods of production around the world. Also indeed many peoples around the world are living better lives as a result of this. We know this because many of these nations still come to these Western Nations for know how in getting things done.

The purpose of "all religions are the same religion " in public schools is to integrate all thinking in the religious arena towards the new template the new paradigm that government approved thinking and values are the new religion and in process of time the new god. Government will solve all problems of people. Just give them enough money and votes. You don't have to do anything ..take any risk..government will do this for us all.

This is particularly why the Bible and Bible thinking is not allowed in public schools or forums. No competition allowed in this dictatorship. No questioning of the new and changing government paradigm as a new concept or ideas are forced on our totally unawares children. Most of these new ideas an paradigms ..are against the principles of what is taught in the Word. They are of the abominations of the nations which surrounded Ancient Israel and precisely what the Children of Israel were told not to get involved into ...or do. They want us all rolling in these gutters and call it "Enlightenment." "I see the Light.!!"

There is only one religion which speaks against this...His Word.

All the others including many Paganized varieties of what is attempting to pass for Christianity ..are of the Eastern Religious philosophies. THe Religions of men.


I also find it highly amusing that you believe America hasn't totally succumbed to the 'Whoredom' you talk of.


The word "amuse or amusing" translates or breaks down to ..

A-without
Muse-thinking.

Without thinking ...amuse.

America is the final bastion which has not totally succumbed to the "Whoredom" i am describing. There are a huge block of Americans who are not as liberal as many in public education and the body politics would like to take for granted we are.

This whoredom is being spoon fed to the next generation privily and in seclusion of cloistered environments..in schools and campuses.....amusing our children so that they are not allowed to think or know that there is another template or knowledge out here.
It is being fed constantly by the media ..who are also shills for this whorish political system.

Nonetheless..there is a remnant as foretold ...for thousands of years...who have not bowed the knee to Ba'al. This remnant is to be found all over the world...but most of them are here ..in America. America represents the biggest threat to this world system...simply because these people..Americans... have known something totally unknown by most of the world throughout recorded history...liberty. Liberty ..the fruit of God's system I am describing.

No government of intelligent , wise , gnostic, sophist men could ever devise such a system and get it to work for long without ruining it..and bringing it back to feudal standards. Tyranny is the very best system that men on their own merits and demerits can possibly devise. Tyranny is the direction we will be going rapidly very soon. By intelligence ..by gnosticism, by wise men, by sophists.




"I know this immediately and instinctively because a Christian has no such instruction to define themselves by anything to do with their sexuality."

This is because the Christian has killed the feminine element of life.There is no Goddess,no Heavenly Mother,there is only the masculine.


Christianity is neither masculine or feminine..it is authoritative under a Sovereign God. The pattern of paganism is to break down systems into masculine and feminine. This is also how I know immediately I am dealing with pagans...the masculine feminine dichotomy.

As to Jesus being an Essene...Not possible. I read the link you posted. YOu do not see Jesus teaching or preaching Kabbalistic principles..nor the Apostle Paul. For I can tell you with certainty that both of them knew what these Kaballistic principles were as practiced in abominations by the Children of Israel as well as the nations surrounding them. You do see this by teachers in Paganism. I have a copy of the Kaballah along with Rig Veda written by Alber Pike in my private library. I do not read these books except to look for certain fingerprints as a matter of history. It is immediately obvious when just scanning these books that they are not of the God of the Bible.


The Vedic were a very advanced culture.And the Middle East is not called the Cradle of Civilization for nothing.The cultures there had towns and cities built from stone while people in Europe and Asia were living in 'grass huts.'


LOL LOL Jakyll...they may have built of stone..but what was the economic condition of these peoples...the ordinary peon...substance living.
It is not what was built ...of stone ..but what was the average living condition of the ordinary peon. Even in Europe at some time they built of stone...but the ordinary peon lived at a substance level or lower.

The average person in America....even poor persons live far better than a king did anywhere on the earth ..500 years ago. How do you think it was in Vedic cultures or any other Ancient culture...Goddess or not??
Thinking people know this Jakyll...amused people do not.

Thanks,
Orangetom





[edit on 22-10-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 




The average person in America....even poor persons live far better than a king did anywhere on the earth ..500 years ago. How do you think it was in Vedic cultures or any other Ancient culture...Goddess or not??


Maybe you should look at places such as Windsor Castle,the Palace of Versailles and the Forbidden City then look at the state poor people live in and reavaluate the above comment.
'Without thinking' indeed.




As to what effect it has had on the world..it has spread this progress around the globe.


Care to give a name to this religion coz its easy to say such things when no one knows who/what you're talking about.




As to Jesus being an Essene...Not possible. I read the link you posted. YOu do not see Jesus teaching or preaching Kabbalistic principles..


The Kabbalah has nothing to do with the Essenes.





[edit on 22-10-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by jekyll
 


Jakyll,

Ive been to Versailles as a youngster. Also been to the Louvre Museum. THe Louvre is just as is Notre Dame. Moldy and musty smelling. Stone monuments to the glory of men. I recall looking up at these huge gold framed paintings of various generals with their hats,epaulets, and gold braid sitting on horses standing on hind legs. More monuments to the glory of men.
Monuments of stone.
Windsor Castle...no thanks. Forbidden City is the same thing. A monument. You can even see it from the satellite. Ironically ..in the workers paradise...the ordinary peon lives quite different from the party bosses. It was not till Western Christian influence that much of this began to change. Oh..they could make arms and weapons of war but not much to change the standard of living of the ordinary peon. Thus demonstrating to those who can see....what they are. A feudal government of royalty.
It was the same with the Soviets.

As to the name of the religion..it is called Christianity. It was from the Western Christian nations that any progress which was to ease the burden of the ordinary peon in most nations came. One can see this over and over and over in history once one learns for what to look.
I can understand you or even many others not being able to see it..no problem here.

The Kabbalah has to do with Hebrew doctrine as practiced today. It also has to do with Talmudic and Occult doctrine practiced by many non Hebrew sects today. Neither of these were practiced by Jesus or his followers. They have their origins in the nations which the Ancient Hebrews were told not to do as these other nations were doing...for it is abomination.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 26-10-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


actually, the advancements were brought about by the various civil rights movements that began with the magna carte and continued on to women winning the right to vote, and a more equal playing field....
all of these rights were both supported and denounced by different portions of the christian community...
to say that all those advances that have made the peon's life better was because of christianity is bogus...
the feudal serf was just about as much christian when the knights were in the middle east on their crusade as the modern day low wage worker! what changed was that the people rose up and demanded more from their leaders, and well stripped them of much of their power...
beheaded a few if I remember right...

remember, serfs and servants, slaves are too busy struggling for their daily bread to waste time thinking of new and better was of baking it! and kings and dictators are usually too busy amassing their wealth and nurturing their devine rights to lordship to care about easing much of any burden. human potential will always be wasted when the destiny of many is decided by a few.






[edit on 27-10-2008 by dawnstar]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


Dawnstar

The one nation where is did indeed make a difference ..here in the United States is a nation which did not begin with the feudal Occult principles as did Europe, the Middle East, and the Orient.
Though this change began in certain areas of Europe and the UK it was to find fruition here in The USA. It is here where people were to be able to keep enough of their production that progress was inevitable. From here in particular it was exported to other nations.
Our progress has been so astounding ....as compared to other nations...that an income tax has been put in place to curb our progress and remove much of the incentive for people to create businesses to export more of this. Nonetheless....it is these countries from whence the progress and products were to come which was to ease the manual burden on the peoples of many nations...and by this eventually the burden on the families...women and children. By this meaning a standard of living above the basic substance levels....grass hut levels.


[li]all of these rights were both supported and denounced by different portions of the christian community...
to say that all those advances that have made the peon's life better was because of christianity is bogus...


My point to jakyll..is that most of the religious systems in Europe and the orient...were feudal in nature....they were also Occult. The power and structure often hidden..even from us today with our limited educations.
These systems were no different in the fruit they bore than were the systems of the ancient Royalties...the Egyptians, Babylonians, the Assyrians, Persians, Greeks and the Romans, The ordinary peons in these nations lived at a basic substance levels or lower...while the royalties and priesthoods lived well off the labor of others.
This meaning that the system in effect in Europe ..the RCC is no different than the Occult/Pagan systems of Rome. Babylon, Assyria, Greece, Persia, Ancient Egypt...and even the Orient. It too never produced any fruit which was to change the standard of living above the grass hut, substance level for the ordinary peon. It too was dead...inert in this. This is an important tell tale of what this type of system actually is. Not what name they put on it but what "Fruit" did it produce.

Only a handful of nations broke out of this royal feudal system...of confiscation and caste structure to where the ordinary peon could keep more of what they produced for themselves. These were the nations which were to go on to progress..and export this progress to the rest of the world.


what changed was that the people rose up and demanded more from their leaders, and well stripped them of much of their power...
beheaded a few if I remember right...


This could only happen in non Catholic countries...where the concept of divine right of kings was not believed by the bulk of the peoples..and it most certainly was not believed here in the USA...even before our revolution. Oliver Cromwell settled this issue in England in 1649 with the beheading of Charles the 1st. Since that time no monarch of England dared to declare themselves divine right. This was known histories to the founders of this nation. It was the one of the basics in the decision to revolt against the King. Do a people have a precedent to turn on their king when the king had broken the law?? Or was the king above the law and could break no law in taxation without representation. Cromwell's president indicated that they could indeed revolt against their King.

People did not rise up in most countries...only in some countries. And these nations which did not rise up remained the same...Feudal Bondage to the age old systems..almost no progress took place in these nations.

In man made systems and pseudo revolutions ..like the killing fields of Cambodia...Russia under the Soviets...the French Revolution, China under the Communists...you see pseudo progress...and revolution by the occult masters resulting in extreme violence when the revolution is over...they turned on their own people...often killing millions. This is how one knows these revolutions are man made and pagan....When they were done...millions die in butcheries and the system which takes overs is no different from the one which came before. They simply got new masters. Remember...these are new ...educated enlightened times.
"For they have filled the land with violence" This is a clear fingerprint of what is happening. This did not take place here in the USA. It did however take place in most other nations since that time...and particularly in the 20th century....enlightened times.


remember, serfs and servants, slaves are too busy struggling for their daily bread to waste time thinking of new and better was of baking it!


Indeed ...this is the fingerprint of most nations..and most peoples. Hence change did not come to most people and nations of the world outside of it being exported there from the nations where progress was happening.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 27-10-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 08:07 PM
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the war on women looks like this shocking article the statistics for the US are in here as well

and this horrifying atrition

and this what happens when there is no birthcontrol or healthcare

These are war causality numbers,because this is war



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 




Thus demonstrating to those who can see....what they are. A feudal government of royalty.


This has nothing to do with what my reply was about.
You said that the poor in America are better off than Kings who lived 500yrs ago.I've shown you that they lived in the lap of luxury.Poor people today are the same as poor people throughout the ages,they have to worry about food,shelter,work etc.Monarchs do not worry about such things.




As to the name of the religion..it is called Christianity.


Really?
Christianity is a creation of Paul,not Jesus.




The Kabbalah has to do with Hebrew doctrine as practiced today. It also has to do with Talmudic and Occult doctrine practiced by many non Hebrew sects today. Neither of these were practiced by Jesus or his followers. They have their origins in the nations which the Ancient Hebrews were told not to do as these other nations were doing...for it is abomination.


Those who follow the Kabbalah believe it comes from the time of Adam.Historically the earliest it has been traced back to before the 6th century BC when the Tanakh was edited.Much of what is in the Kabbalah could be found in the Tanakh before that time,and still exists in some books such as Ezekiel.





here in the United States is a nation which did not begin with the feudal Occult principles as did Europe, the Middle East, and the Orient.


The 4 biggest land owners of the conquest of America were Spain,Britain,France and Holland.All monarchies.All built on this 'feudal occult principles.' These states,especially Britain had the biggest impact on American laws and government.(don't forget,the war of independence changed nothing but the ruler;British monarch to British aristocrats)




These systems were no different in the fruit they bore than were the systems of the ancient Royalties...the Egyptians, Babylonians, the Assyrians, Persians, Greeks and the Romans, The ordinary peons in these nations lived at a basic substance levels or lower...while the royalties and priesthoods lived well off the labor of others.


This is only half true.
Egyptian and Babylonian priests lived well,but not all priests or priestesses in Rome,Greece and Persia did.It is ignorant to make such sweeping generalizations.And the menial workers of today still live at a basic substance level,even in America.




This could only happen in non Catholic countries...where the concept of divine right of kings was not believed by the bulk of the peoples..and it most certainly was not believed here in the USA...even before our revolution.


The French Revolution.France.Catholic.
The Peasants' Revolt.(1381)England.Catholic.
The Engelbrekt Rebellion.(1434)Sweden.Catholic.
The Peasants' War.The Holy Roman Empire.Catholic.



Since that time no monarch of England dared to declare themselves divine right.


Despite the opposition the Divine Right doctrine is still part of the British Coronation ceremony.Charles the 2nd,son of the beheaded King,believed strongly in his Divine Right and even talked about it in Parliament.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by jekyll
 


Jekyll,
Poor people in America live better than poor people anywhere in the world. This cannot be accidental. This means that there are enough surpluses to support so many poor peoples. This was not the case in Kingdoms 500 years ago. It is not the case in many non American countries today.


Poor people today are the same as poor people throughout the ages,they have to worry about food,shelter,work etc.


This is textbook socialist politic Jekyll. All people who work for a living worry about these things..not just poor people.
I got disgusted with a "poor person" approaching me at the gate at work the other day...asked me for 50 cents...then quickly changed the tune to $2.00..then quickly to $5.00. What struck me was the sense of entitlement ...that they did not have to think about it or consider what they were saying...on my moneys/risk to earn such moneys. They just expected me to hand it over as fast as they changed their tune. After all Jekyll...they were a "poor victim." I gave them nothing. This was not charity ...it was a shakedown.
I despise a sense of entitlement in people...it is the same as the sense of entitlement in the body politic.


[iChristianity is a creation of Paul,not Jesus.


Christianity is after the Lord Jesus Christ for Remission of Sins. Not after the traditions of men. Even the Pagans...The Roman Festus...with King Agrippa...the term was used by them...Christian. However...Festus used the typical response of an unbeliever....in the book of Acts.

The Kaballah is not in the instructions to Moses as given in the Law. It comes from other sources outside the Law of Moses. Anything outside the Law of Moses given by God on Mt. Sinai...is of the traditions of men/pagan....for which the Hebrews were told not to do or get involved into as were the abominations of the nations in the land before the Children of Israel.
The Book of Greater Mysteries the Book of Lesser Mysteries. This was not Given by God on Mt Sinai..to Moses.

However...you are correct in that its pedigree is very ancient. This tradition goes back very far historically.


The 4 biggest land owners of the conquest of America were Spain,Britain,France and Holland.


LOL LOL Jekyll. Are you a politician...using the political method. A political education. The term I used is the United States...meaning beginning with the Constitution of the United States as ratified by the convention in Philadelphia in 1787.

Speaking of such ...this charter of this government is in fact the second charter we have had in this country since the Revolutionary War. The first ..the Articles of Confederation were a failure. The first charter was very feudal in nature ..giving all power and authority to the central government...just like many monarchies. It quickly proceeded to failure.


And the menial workers of today still live at a basic substance level,even in America.


News to me Jakyll. What I see here Jakyll..is poor people.."victims" with cell phones, beer,cigarettes...drugs etc. I know of some of them even on the public dole. Government housing, food stamps. Many of them more worried about the latest scores on tonights game.


The French Revolution.France.Catholic.
The Peasants' Revolt.(1381)England.Catholic.
The Engelbrekt Rebellion.(1434)Sweden.Catholic.
The Peasants' War.The Holy Roman Empire.Catholic.


LOL LOL LOL Jakyll.
I was refering to regicide..the beheading of King Charles the 1st. in 1649
This is the first time in recorded history that a people had ever executed thier King. This could not have happened in a Catholic country..due to the grip of Divine right of Kings. It happened first in England.

One could easily mistake the French Revolution for the same thing but upon closer examination the history bears out its occult pagan origins/roots..of men..not of God.

For, Jakyll, The fruit of the traditions of men and man made ,man inspired, gnostic, sophist, intelligentsia...is a blood bath on their own people...during and after the revolution. We see this fingerprint in France...in Russia, in Germany, in China, in Cambodia in recent times also in Africa. Always the fingerprint of a government turning on its own people in huge waves of executions. This fingerprint Biblically is described as "filling the land with Violence"
" For they have filled the land with Violence."

This was not the case with Cromwell and the Puritans after the execution of the King.

Since that time the Kings and Queens of England are the head and protector of the Church of England. They are not Divine Right. Cromwell settled the issue in 1649 when the blood of Charles 1st did not run blue....but red.

If this were not true..the Queen would not have to dismount and ask permission to enter the olde City of London. No divine right.


Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
So, while the oppression of women in Islamic society is now talked about at length, why don't we take the same tone with Christian oppression of women?


I'm fairly certain that the likelihood of women being considered less than equal in Christian households is effectively a statistical anomaly. I would tend to believe that the the rate of women being treated as if they were less important than men in Christian households would be similar to the same rates in German -American households, Brunette households and People Over Five-Eight households.

I also believe that you are equating 'different' with 'unequal'.

Eric


I read a book called PHALLIC
WORSHIP
A HISTORY OF SEX & SEXUAL RITES
GEORGE RYLEY SCOTT


in this book it sets out the premise that religions and philosophies developed that considered females to be inferior because everyone could see sperm and no one could see the ova so it was thought that all life-giving essence came from males, and the females were just an empty oven to make a 'bun in the oven' [the euphemism for pregnancy]

so all the major religions are phallic religions and venerate male superiority because he has the power to create life - just like god has the power to create life.

Women [except in wicca traditions] were inferior because they did not give that life creating essence. They were venerated in the wicca traditions for having a nurturing womb, and never for having a life creating essence themselves.

Women were thought to be born without a soul because they lacked the life creating essence and that is why in Islam for example there are 72 virgins waiting for the males in heaven but nothing really to compare for the women - she will be waited on - and that is all.

no one knew that ova existed or what role it had to play in creating a new life.

for millenia this way of thinking persisted and now the religions dont even realise any longer why females cannot be equal

I highly recommend reading this book as it sets out the premise very clearly - it was published in 1930



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by megabyte
 


megabyte,

The way this works if that to reproduce you need two..male and female. Not one.

Somehow this doesn't seem to occur to many people while they are glorifying their humanity.

The Christian position is that we are not here to glorify our humanity...we are to glorify the God who lives in us.

Historically ..whenever humanity is glorified ...men of wisdom, sophism, gnosticism, intellect, always go back to human sexuality as the means of glorifying humanity. It is the very best that "reasonable" men can do.

The Hebrews of ancient times were told not to do this type of human glorification/sexuality..because the nations surrounding them were already doing this carte blanche.in multitudes of variations.
Christians are told and instructed to not be as is the world around them. To not follow with every changing wind.

The book I read along those lines was called

Sex and Power in History
by
Amaury de Riencourt

This book too follows in parallel what you describe in your post.

All the major religions are not phallic religions. Phallic religions are from pagan origins. As are the religions which glorify human sexuality as the peak of human development.

invisible woman,

I have been musing over your post and wondering what your point is that you are trying to get across in relation to the OP and the point the OP made in relation to women being second class citizens in Western Christian nations?? Or perhaps the OP means Christian societies and the oppression of women.

Somehow this topic line seems to have gelled down to oppression of women throughout the world.

Since many are wont to take this tack male and female both about the oppression of women world wide as an important emotional tack...I am sure you would be willing to lead the charge and go to these countries and make a difference at great risk to yourself. You would be willing to give up easy trips to the grocery store...your cell phones, automobiles, computers , television programs...yada yada yada....to make a difference for these other women. You would be willing to give up thousands of dollars of your tax moneys and suffer more taxation in the form of inflation(inflation in this instance being a tax...the same as a tax...work you have to do for which you get no more goods or services..same result as a tax) to insure that these nations progress...with no expense to themselves...no risk. You are willing to do this ..step up to the plate and travel to these countries and suffer life taking risks..to change things..yes??

This is the same question I asked of Agrilla 11 in their post about the last matriarchal society somewhere in the mountains near Tibet. You know..were they, Agrilla 11 and other women of progress, willing to go to to this remote location to be a part of this social structure and bring them into the 21st century complete with shopping centers, grocery stores, automobiles, the View...yada, yada, yada..you know...at great RISK to themselves.

here in this post to Agrilla 11

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you answer yes to this question..and go there..to these countries....when you are able to get to a computer terminal ...let us know here on ATS how it is going??

By the way...in the spirit of "equality"...do you know what are the mortality/injury rates are for men verses women in these countries ..for all reasons?? Right??

How about here in the USA?? Do you know what the mortality/injury rates are male verses females??

Once you know this and then see who earns the moneys here in the States...verses the product lines in the stores..male to female...and who determines how the moneys are spent....I have to ask myself what war is going on??

So many seem to swear that there is a war going on ..against women in Christian social structures. I don't see it. I see a war of ignorance going on ..male and female both. So many of us are getting dumber in this war.
We spend more of our time emoting not doing and or thinking.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 




Poor people in America live better than poor people anywhere in the world. This cannot be accidental. This means that there are enough surpluses to support so many poor peoples. This was not the case in Kingdoms 500 years ago. It is not the case in many non American countries today.


We were talking about the King,not the Kingdom.




This is textbook socialist politic Jekyll. All people who work for a living worry about these things..not just poor people.


There are many millionaire's who still work,i doubt they worry about such things.




LOL LOL Jekyll. Are you a politician...using the political method. A political education. The term I used is the United States...meaning beginning with the Constitution of the United States as ratified by the convention in Philadelphia in 1787.


The United States existed before that time.John Hanson was the first American president.www.marshallhall.org...
After 1787 the US became the Independent United States.
And the Articles of Confederation were revised to grant Congress power over foreign and domestic commerce,and providing means for Congress to collect money from state treasuries.




News to me Jakyll. What I see here Jakyll..is poor people.."victims" with cell phones, beer,cigarettes...drugs etc. I know of some of them even on the public dole. Government housing, food stamps. Many of them more worried about the latest scores on tonights game.


I see you are one of those people who sees poor as one thing only.In the UK the elderly cannot afford to pay their heating bills and many die during the winter months.That is a form of poverty that gets ignored.





I was refering to regicide..the beheading of King Charles the 1st. in 1649
This is the first time in recorded history that a people had ever executed thier King. This could not have happened in a Catholic country..due to the grip of Divine right of Kings. It happened first in England.


In that case the French Revolution still counts.Catholic country,killed the monarch.And its laughable to say that it was the first time in history that the people killed a monarch.During chaotic times in ancient Egypt it was almost a national pass time to kill the ruler who had upset you or brought some kinda disaster to the country.




This was not the case with Cromwell and the Puritans after the execution of the King.


You really need to look into Cromwell's actions in Ireland.Atrocities a plenty.




If this were not true..the Queen would not have to dismount and ask permission to enter the olde City of London. No divine right.


This actually dates back to the 12th century.
books.google.co.uk... source=web&ots=HZvUVbTHMg&sig=_EpMflBCImiADWn-LJPc2yb42Qg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by megabyte
 


Originally posted by megabyte
They were venerated in the wicca traditions for having a nurturing womb, and never for having a life creating essence themselves.

Women were thought to be born without a soul because they lacked the life creating essence and that is why in Islam for example there are 72 virgins waiting for the males in heaven but nothing really to compare for the women - she will be waited on - and that is all.

Just a small aside, apologies for not taking part in the main discussion, treatment of women in christianity is not really my specialty. However, I do know for a fact that the idea that 'women are born without a soul' exists neither in Christianity, or in Islam.

As for the 72 virgin thing, it has been discussed in great detail here on ATS (although I cannot find the thread at the moment), and it might interest you to know that there are many misconceptions about it: like the fact that:
-the number is mentioned nowhere in the Quran,
-the word used (houri) does not mean 'virgin' (instead meaning "Companions pure, most beautiful of eye")
-and nowhere is the sex mentioned (it is a reward for both male and female).


Anyhow, carry on!

[edit on 2-11-2008 by babloyi]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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thanks for your opinions

I have read about this philosophy -about women being thought to have no soul in the book I mentioned

PHALLIC
WORSHIP
A HISTORY OF SEX & SEXUAL RITES
GEORGE RYLEY SCOTT

I understand that if you have not read this book you cannot understand about this so I have googled for another source where this philosophy is mentioned

please note it has never been officially mentioned in any religion but it is the philosophy which prejudiced the founders of religions to class women as less equal to men - not on purpose, but simply because they took this philosophy as being a universal truth

this web site

www.lilithgallery.com...

to quote a few paragraphs


Aristotle was obsessed with his penis, that much is evident from a psychologically perspective. According to Aristotle, the penis and its semen is the source of all souls and spirit, and that women, being “mutilated" and without a penis is soulless.
He goes into more detail, believing that women are unable to create souls because they themselves are “impure" and “incapable of concocting the nutriment in its last stage into semen. If she does have a soul, it is an “impure" one, and thus needs a man’s “purity" in the form of semen. In short, Aristotle likely believed that the world revolved around his penis.

Going further on Aristotle’s beliefs, if women are soulless, then their feelings don’t matter, and thus men must be the masters over women because women are cold, heartless and lack authority. He admits that women have intelligence/faculty, “but it is without authority" and thus men must be the masters. The end result is that Aristotle likely believes that the perfect woman is a “mutilated" quiet, cold, and submissive creature, something similar to Helen of Troy or Andromeda.



end of quote from the above web site


and if you look at this with wide open eyes you can truly appreciate how this belief has influenced much that is still going on in our world even though the original philosophy has now been almost forgotten

pkease read the website i mention and also I am sure you can find many other ancient references on other websites and in other books about how men thought women were born with no soul because only men had the god essence of creating new life in their semen, and so women were subordinate to men and how this influenced religions



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:57 AM
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I read through the OP and most of the comments and at the defence of the Holy Bible; I'd like to add that as with most everything written or handed down by a party *not present* anyone, intelligent or not can misconstrue what is being stated and that is most obvious considering the fact that there are numerous denominations that make up the "Christian" Religion according to ONE Book. So considering there is only one truth within the one Book, then how can there be so many divides, disputes and sometimes vast differences between the Christian denominations? It's not the fault of the Book, it would be the person reading it and how they have understood and/or interpreted each passage, chapter and verse.

So not to get too far off topic, here is one of the particular passages in question that I see pulled and used so many times without proper spiritual understanding:
1 Timothy 2
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Now knowing the Bible in most of it's fullness; I can understand that Apostle Paul is not commanding a woman not to teach..see here:
Titus 2:3
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

Going back to 1 Timothy, Apostle Paul is stating that a woman within the true Church (Body of Christ) should not teach to upsurp the authority over the man teaching and if you continue reading, it is easy to understand why Paul is saying this...women are the weaker vessel, we were created as such and also woman was under the transgression for partaking from the tree in the garden and then giving to her husband (the man) So Paul is in a way protecting the woman and the Church from a repeat of the situation in the garden of eden. Paul is not saying women cannot be teachers as we read in Titus and other passages within the Bible.

There is a balance and harmony within the Bible as we can read in 1 Corinthians 11:3, but again this is all pertaining to the Body of Christ and has nothing to do with the institutions and affairs of this world. Obviously there is little regard in either gender within the affairs of this world and that is because of the lack of Biblical Authority all together and here is why:
John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So I cannot speak for the religions who've taken Scripture out of context or according to their own private interpretations; but I can speak on behalf of the Holy Bible that there is not one tittle or word that degrades a human being no matter what race, nationality, status or gender. And that is because we are all considered one when we are IN Christ.
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by jekyll
 




We were talking about the King,not the Kingdom.


Yes, correct, we are talking about the King. The Kingdom in a feudal structure is the King. In the name of the King and all that...implies. The King is the Kingdom...especially in Divine Right Kings where their power is absolute.


There are many millionaire's who still work,i doubt they worry about such things


You make an assumption here. I know two millionaires...and they worry about their moneys and the work they must to to maintain it..just like the rest of us...they are not unworried. You assume incorrectly here....just like a politician. THey did not become millionaires by inheritance...they earned it/worked for it and must continue in worry and earn to maintain it.


The United States existed before that time.John Hanson was the first American president.www.marshallhall.org...
After 1787 the US became the Independent United States.
And the Articles of Confederation were revised to grant Congress power over foreign and domestic commerce,and providing means for Congress to collect money from state treasuries


Jekyll..you are going off on a tangent here. No one recognizes the Articles of Confederation as the beginning of this country as it was a failed system. It failed because it was very similar to the feudal systems of England and the Continent granting all power without limits to the government. And this government under the Articles of Confederation quickly moved to fleece the public as did the feudalists of Europe. Americans wanted a different system. This is why Washington instituted the system where we call our Presidents ...Mr President. Not your Grace..Lord...etc etc.

However...under continued public education ..I don't believe the Articles of Confederation are much taught anymore...the Constitution of the United States is not even much taught anymore....much less the Articles of Confederation.


I see you are one of those people who sees poor as one thing only.


No.. I know more than one thing as poor. Once again you make a political assumption based on public education/indoctrination.

The woman I am seeing is an apartment general manager of some 5 different sites and their managers. Many of these apartments have people on the public dole..here it is called section 8. Not all of them are as I described in my post. I know that. However those who are like I described make life miserable in these neighborhoods not only for my woman but also the paying customers in these apartments and also the other section 8 peoples just trying to make a living and not conducting themselves as "wildlife." This has become a huge problem in many cities as many of these types I am describing are carrying on from a position of entitlement...on the public dole. I don't go along with this. I am proud of her for weeding out this type of wildlife whenever she can..section 8 or not...and create a better place to live for all. It is becoming increasingly difficult.

What my woman is trying to do in this context for older peoples is work and interest the management in going into some kind of retirement community housing as this is going to be an up and coming market as more and more people reach retirement age.

The French Revolution as were many of the revolutions since were occult in nature ...of the origins of Wisemen, sophists, gnostics, intelligentsia. This fingerprint continues today as many of these types of religions spread and do their work in killing off a huge segment of their populations.

As to Oliver Cromwell....


You really need to look into Cromwell's actions in Ireland.Atrocities a plenty.


I know what happened in Ireland..and Scotland too. I also know what happened in Ireland before Cromwell. In 1641.
The occult religions and feudal systems hate Cromwell to this day. Many books reflect this hatred today. Especially books from Rome but also from the Occult positions.
In this country you have to really dig to even find out anything about the name of Oliver Cromwell. Such is the move to keep anything about the Puritan position from being known...much less the beheading of Charles 1st.

As to the Queen or any other Sovereign dismounting ...I know what the City is ..the olde City of London. This too is not covered by history in this country and most Americans think London is the same as any other city in England. Neither her Sovereignty or Divine Right are recognized in Olde London. The Sovereign must ask Permission after dismounting at the gate.
I also know the part the "City " has played in the rise and fall of many nations....including this one.
I also know of the limits that Parliament has on it in deference to this very City.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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megabyte

Vulva worship was predominant in pagan religions too,and the symbols of this can even be found on Christian churches,such as this image of Sheela-na-gig.




in this book it sets out the premise that religions and philosophies developed that considered females to be inferior because everyone could see sperm and no one could see the ova so it was thought that all life-giving essence came from males, and the females were just an empty oven to make a 'bun in the oven' [the euphemism for pregnancy]


This is true.Some religious scholars also believe this to be the reason of classifying masterbation as a sin;it was the spilling of the life giving seed.

Some cultures still see the blood from the menstural cycle as unclean,because they don't know that its essential,that during pregnancy it actually helps protect the baby.



so all the major religions are phallic religions and venerate male superiority because he has the power to create life - just like god has the power to create life.


I've said for many years that the Abrahamic religions have destroyed the female aspect of their faiths because of their superiority complex and through fear of women.





orangetom1999



Jekyll..you are going off on a tangent here. No one recognizes the Articles of Confederation as the beginning of this country as it was a failed system.


I never said they were,i was talking about the nature of the Articles.And it didn't fail,it was replaced after the war of independence.



As to the Queen or any other Sovereign dismounting ...I know what the City is ..the olde City of London. This too is not covered by history in this country and most Americans think London is the same as any other city in England. Neither her Sovereignty or Divine Right are recognized in Olde London. The Sovereign must ask Permission after dismounting at the gate.


Ok,this ceremony dates back to the 12th century,that means,by your theory,for over 500yrs monarchs with the Divine Right had to ask permission to enter the City of London.Today,as then,they recognize the right of the sovereign,but they have the formal right to elect their own leader.This does not mean the monarch has no power over the City of London.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:50 PM
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to jekyll
yes the vulva religions mainly became the goddess worship that is now wicca and they worshipped the nurturing qualities of the mother goddess but even they did not know that women had life-creating essence [ova] that they were giving to make a baby - they all thought in terms of a womb without which the male life-creating essence [semen] cannot develop into a baby



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