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The Religious Conspiracy Against Women

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posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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Weird. I hadn't seen this thread before I started my womens thread but I am not so concerned with limiting the conspiracy against women to just established religions.




posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 





The concept of 50/50% among women ..and even among men is like stupid. Its 100/100%.



In the circle of life they are half of one whole.Each half is equal,you can call it 50% or 5000% what matters is that they are half of the same circle.

And,as you mentioned telling only half the story,this thread is about religions effect on women,not society and not the feminist/equality movements.You have yet to mention how the Catholic Church's attitude to women kept them in a state of oppression for centuries and how,in some areas,this is still happening through not just the Catholic Church,but others as well.

Oh,and just in case you mention it,obviously this oppression is not the same now as it was in the past.






[edit on 8-10-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


Once again I must make haste to post before shoving off for the day.

Jakyll,

My post about 50%/50% is in clarification to what someone else does not make clear. What I am posting is not semantics. It is indeed 100%/100%.

Both parties need to give 100%...not 50%. I also dont need a woman to be bringing me 100% of what I can get or obtain myself or from someone else. She needs to have enough acumen to know the difference. She must be savy enough to see what is missing from my life and fulfill that need 100%...not 50%. Understand?? This would be called commitment.

This is very different from the appearance of commitment so that one never really has to be committed while actually running the fast food lane for "options."

Most men of whom I know would have great difficulty vocalizing such a concept ...much less thinking it through..for the reasons I stated to mmariebored. I hear so many men at work talking about this concept but skirting around the central issues. They just dont get it. But they can quote and figure out a point spread on the next game ..very rapidly. What boneheads. They are part of the problem. Many of them would actually rather drink than think. In this I am in agreement with women like Dawnstar.

The Catholic Church. Surely like mmariebored...surely you jest.

The Catholic Church and the fruit it produced..even unto today.. in many nations is exactly the fruit produced by the Communist Nations...the goddess religion nations...et al. No difference.
Go across the border from Texas..into Mexico and Central/South America..and see the difference in the standard of living. That difference is a religious difference. Inspect the Fruit Jakyll.
Obviously I dont approve of this template either.

Gotta shove off now.
Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 12:37 PM
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Threads like this are interesting, but generally the stupidity of todays male, will cause threads like this to be full of emotion.

The one thing I thought I'd mention, is that ATHEISM is also a religion which will devalue females, and this is obvious when one reads "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. In that book, it is the word "Mother" which is criminal to even utter.

Now why would Uncle Aldous, having foreseen so much of what is happening today, forsee a world where the word "Mother" was the most forbidden, unspeakable term?

Don't limit yourself to organized religion when you seek the root of hatered of females.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by smallpeeps
 





Now why would Uncle Aldous, having foreseen so much of what is happening today, forsee a world where the word "Mother" was the most forbidden, unspeakable term?


Because he's not displaying a Utopia,he's displaying the exact opposite,a Dystopia.A place where nothing has value and natural birth is seen as unnatural.

If a mother (or father) was an accepted term or person to be,then it wouldn't be a dystopia.


Hatred of females obviously isn't just a religious thing,but they are the biggest purpetrator's of it.

Eve's transgression was/is seen as the reason of mankind's woes,and from that moment on were a continuous threat that had to be controlled.Women were a constant threat and challenge to the male priests and monks pledge of celibacy and chastity.Instead of blaming themselves for giving into temptation etc women were to blame.Another reason to keep them under control.

The Church Fathers St. Augustine,Ambrosius and John Chrysostomos all had the opinion that woman was an inferior creature of lesser value than men.She was not created in Gods image (because God is a man),and her main purpose was to serve and obey the man.The church fathers argued that the very caption “woman” or “female” (femina in latin) was in itself kind of obvious linguistic proof that women were inferior to men.They argued that the word “femina” consisted of the two words fe = fides (faith) and minus (less), thus “femina” meant “of lesser faith”.

Thomas Aquinas also saw women as both bodily and spiritually inferior to men,he believed that women in reality were “failed” men.Martin Luther,who in fact contributed to abolishing celibacy,also saw women as inferior,woman were only “half a child” or a “magnificent animal.”

At the church council in Mâcon towards the end of the sixth century,a bishop asked the question if women were to be considered as human beings (or more precisely:belonging to the species “homo” [sapiens]).The bishop answered this very intelligent question himself with a firm No! The majority of the council however,agreed upon that according to the Bible,women,in spite of all their faults and shortcomings,had to be considered as a member of the human species.

With the introduction of Christianity in Northern Europe,women also lost much of their status,independence and prominent role in both society and religious life.In the pagan religion,women were central both in performing rituals and with several female goddesses in the pagan pantheon.Women had the right to inherit land and other rights under the laws,and were often the owner and head of households.In the pagan burials,there are no differences in wealth between male and female burials in the pre-Christian periods.


It was only from the 18th century onwards that women's voices started to be heard.







[edit on 8-10-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by smallpeeps
Because he's not displaying a Utopia,he's displaying the exact opposite,a Dystopia.A place where nothing has value and natural birth is seen as unnatural.

If a mother (or father) was an accepted term or person to be,then it wouldn't be a dystopia.

You are right about what he was showing, but you are wrong that the word "father" was forbidden, because in his book, it is not.

The idea of course, is connected to any young male who has the same oedipal issues that so many men do have. By removing the all-empowering female essence of the mother, then the state becomes the nurturer.

Generally father's job is not seen as "nurture" but instead, direction and authority and guidance, as in Huxley's world. Surely his world of orgies divorced from an understanding of the female essential power, is the one we are headed toward, in so many ways.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
How does one become out to protect themselves ....and give 100%?? Or for that matter..even 50%?? How do you do it and be so insecure you spend so much time and resources "protecting ones self." In this protection concept one would be hard pressed to give 50% much less 100%. Ive told many a woman and even men with whom Ive had to work and entrust my life and safety to them on a job..I am not intrested in thier insecuritys.

Ah, I see what you mean now, after you clarified what YOU meant by "50%".
I was speaking in terms most religions use it, this thread is about religious treatment of women so naturally my mind was in that frame. When Jakyll mentioned it, she used it the way the Bible did referring to the union of a man and a women, staying within the path of the OP. My comment back to her fell in line with that and YOUR comment went off that track and into your own meaning of the term. That's where we got confused. No big deal.

You're right though, when a person engages in a relationship they should give 100% of themselves, not 50%. This is often expressed romantically when a person says "I would die for you." whereas a person only giving 50% of themselves in a relationship would be quicker to use their mate as a human shield to protect their own well being.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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There is a conspiracy against men too. So as a woman you should not feel left out. The ultimate design is to destroy families and make them weak by destroying the families foundations. Take a look at the Social Security Act section 666 and also custody laws pertaining to a parenting time with children. The other parent must attain 93 overnights directly taken from Crowleys system of Thelema to recieve any favor from the court system and a reduced amount of child support.

In the end by participating in this madness or by being married legally in the US you are willfully signing the ultimate rights of your children over to the state, should they deem necessary your children become property of the state and the state extablishes the right to primary custody over your children.

So like I said, there is not just a conspiracy against women, it hurts everyone. It is a conspiracy against man, woman and child alike.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by smallpeeps
 





You are right about what he was showing, but you are wrong that the word "father" was forbidden, because in his book, it is not.


The word mother eventually became forbidden,but when the word father is used it is as an insult or as a way to make fun of someone.

So in essence they are similar,if not the same.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll

Oh,and just in case you mention it,obviously this oppression is not the same now as it was in the past.


Maybe not here in America, yet, but the religions that strongly oppress women around the world are growing here in America. What happens when the whole country is filled with people of one certain belief or even several similar beliefs? The rules and ideologies of those beliefs and religions spill over onto the rules of the whole country...so we shall see, give or take a hundred years, if women's rights will be the same as they are now.

PS: I know this wasn't to me but I butted in.

[edit on 8-10-2008 by mmariebored]



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 04:41 AM
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reply to post by mmariebored
 



LOL LOL mmariebored,

You do know that the courts in the UK have approved the two standard system for.. law do you not? You can have English Law and you can also have Sharia Law.

There is a very sophisticated, cosmopolitan word for this double talk...among intelligences. It is called being "Tolerant." You do know this correct??

Keep in mind that here in America we are being groomed to follow the "World " examples and principles..particularly those of the UK and the Continent.
So far the only ones who seem to be catching on and seriously thinking this through are the French.

Wait a minute jakyll,

You do realize once again what nonsense this is when one is able to think it through...


Eve's transgression was/is seen as the reason of mankind's woes,and from that moment on were a continuous threat that had to be controlled.Women were a constant threat and challenge to the male priests and monks pledge of celibacy and chastity.Instead of blaming themselves for giving into temptation etc women were to blame.Another reason to keep them under control.


THe charge for dressing and keeping the garden of Eden was to Adam..it was not to Eve. You do know this correct??

I hear this "Victim Dictum" Drivel from so many and particularly the women as a standard mantra..it becomes so predictable.

Even men of letters who should know better often use that same mantra. The primary responsibility was to Adam..not Eve.

Eve ate the fruit and knew she was naked...Adam did not know he was naked till he ate the fruit. But the primary charge was to Adam.

As to the celibacy issue with the Catholic Church...I know of no such instruction for a preacher to be celibate. Where from the Roman Church gets this ..I am not intrested...for I know Peter had a wife.

I also know of the varioius orgainzations in and around Rome for the purpose of servicing the priesthood. I'm Not impressed with celibacy. Nor the history of Rome. I also know what was happening with many of the priests of the Society of Jesus in Nicaragua when the Sandanistas rant that country. Once again not impressed with the Roman Church and celibacy.

For all that matter..though it has been some time since I have read Aldous Huxley...I did not find his writings favorable at all. No thanks,

You keep quoting so much of this stuff as history..yet it surrounds the Church at Rome. You do precisely as so many Athiests do in using Rome to represent all of Christianity by default.
Rome is nothing more than a version of Hellenic PHariseeism from the gnostic schools at Alexandria, Egypt and extended to Rome...say verses.. Judiac Phariseeism from Jerusalem.
Which Pharisees to you want??? Both groups are Talmudic. It is just that one group is Hellenic Talmudic and the other Judiac Talmudic..or should I say..Babylonian Talmudic.

Orangetom

[edit on 9-10-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 05:35 AM
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5,000 or so years ago and we would have been raised in a matriarchal society. The pendulum is swung and we now live under patriarchy.

I see signs that the pendulum is beginning to swing back to matriarchy. I believe most of us have had enough of wars and greed.

There remains one last matriarchal society, the Mosuo of Lugu Lake.

The fact that this society doesn't have a word for "war" is most instructive.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by argilla11
 


agrilla,

Here in the west...especially in America..it is not a Patriarchal society, it is a Matriarchal society masquerading as a Patriarchal society. It is a stealth society claiming to be something it is not....by public education and the "Victim Dictum." This is a very popular technique for the purposes of the body politic and votes.

From my post to the OP on page 1 of this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The OP's post was about religious persecution of women to second class status here in the Western Christian nations. It is not happening. Women here in the West have it so fantastically good..even many these women themselves do not understand it and take so much for granted...while screaming more "Victimization."

As clearly evidenced by the bulk of posts here on this and other threads..so many women haven't a clue...men also.

As to that society at Mosuo of Lugu Lake. It is obvious that, as in the example by Sir Chancealot, they live at a substance/grass hut level.
However...in cases like substance level...equality is definitely happening.
The women work just as hard and take as many RISKS as do the men. Definitely equality happening. Equality is always found at close to the poverty level. Something of which to be very proud. Most of the women in the west are very eager to live at such an equality level..grass hut level in order to sustain both equality and a matriarchal society....yes??? It is worth it ..a very good trade off ...yes??? We see women by the millions flocking to places like this to live the matriarchal lifestyle...yes?? It has such high appeal...yes?? Or is it just political confetti??? Yes??

Goes to show one how appealing to the emotions a time warp technique actually is in gnostic/sophism... even intelligentsia.

While I am thinking about it I am going to link a post I made a couple of years ago to a person named Clearwater...spouting the same 'Victim Dictum" as is so popular here on this thread. Back then I was beginning to get these concepts together and this is in early form.

From the thread titled "Womens Survival."

www.abovetopsecret.com...

12.21.12,

I agree with your position that it is indeed a conspiracy against the family. Both male and female. However the manner in which this mechanism works is that in order to sell the female, the male must be made expendable and disposable. In all nations where the body politic is looking for more control and power...security issues/socialism appeals to the female ...as they are more easily swayed and seduced for votes than are the males. The number one vote..which must be sold is the female..especially in high electorial vote states..here in America. For this is where there are to be found more females. And the females in America hold the bulk of economic/money control. They determine how the bulk of moneys are spent...and on what. They are therefore the most affluent economically..meaning politically. Politicians in western nations know this. They will just not let on to the public.

The result of all this quest for more political power is that the very soul of the family in Western Christian nations can be sold for Lucre/power...no matter what the cost. The body politic..has a vested interest in the "Victim Dictum." You can see this clearly ..election after election here in the west with the method of appeal to the voters.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 9-10-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 





You keep quoting so much of this stuff as history..yet it surrounds the Church at Rome. You do precisely as so many Athiests do in using Rome to represent all of Christianity by default.


Er,yeah.
Thats because all Christians in the western world were ruled by Rome for centuries.(and many are still ruled,as there are over a billion Catholics in the world) Their view of women passed into other Christian faiths,such as the Lutherans and Church of England.

And what happens in the past effects the future,sometimes on a grand scale.Thats why its important to talk about it.


Some,not all Christians,still have this attitude;

Women should not have positions of teaching or leadership over adult men in society, the family, or the Church. Women should not be on parish councils. Women should not be lectors, extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, or ushers. Bishops and priests should not give positions of leadership and authority over men to women in any diocese or parish. Wives should be submissive and obedient to their husbands in Christ.

Women should show their understanding and acceptance of the place God has given them in Creation by dressing and acting like women, not like men. For example, women should dress in a feminine manner, wearing skirts and dresses instead of pants, wearing some jewelry and make up (though not to excess), and grooming their hair in a feminine manner. Such external signs make a statement about the internal beliefs and attitude of the woman. The Virgin Mary would never dress or act like a man. Women should wear a headcovering or veil when they are at Mass or at prayer. Such veils need not cover the face. The veil or headcovering is a symbol of the woman's acceptance of her role in society, the family, and the Church, in accordance with God's will. It is an imitation of the Virgin Mary, who wore such a headcovering.

www.catholicplanet.com...


Is it any wonder that women have to keep on fighting??




[edit on 9-10-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
reply to post by mmariebored
 



LOL LOL mmariebored,

You do know that the courts in the UK have approved the two standard system for.. law do you not? You can have English Law and you can also have Sharia Law.

There is a very sophisticated, cosmopolitan word for this double talk...among intelligences. It is called being "Tolerant." You do know this correct??

Keep in mind that here in America we are being groomed to follow the "World " examples and principles..particularly those of the UK and the Continent.

No, I didn't know that. That's why I come in here. TY for that nugget of info.





posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 





You do know that the courts in the UK have approved the two standard system for.. law do you not? You can have English Law and you can also have Sharia Law.


Sigh


Where there are Muslims there is Sharia Law.
Only the fundamentalists believe in such things as 'honor killings' even though there is no such concept in Islam.Sharia Law is to help people out with domestic and religious problems etc,any state laws that are broken are to be dealt with by the state only.

The truth of what Sharia Law actually is gets ignored in favour for the extremists who have manipulated it for their own ends.

These links should help you broaden your understanding.
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.islamic-sharia.org...



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by mmariebored
 


mmariebored,

You are most certainly welcome. Keep a close watch on this one in the future. This group too has been conditioned like many others to play the "Victim dictum card." They will use it to play through in the courts and use the system to get over on the bulk of the population as they have done in Europe and the UK. In the UK they are so tolerant of so much nonsense...they are ruining their country step by step. IN about 50 to 75 years it will not be the UK anymore.

Be very careful of what passes for "tolerance"...it is often not all it seems. Much of it is nonsense... It is convenient and puts ointment initially on many peoples emotions..but creates bigger problems down the road.

Soon enough...in process of time this will be attempted here in the USA.

jakyll,


That's because all Christians in the western world were ruled by Rome for centuries.


All Christians in the western world were never ruled by Rome for centuries. Not possible. IF this were true there would never have been a necessity for an Inquisition. There would never have been a necessity to go after the groups with names like Paterines, Waldensens, Albigensins,,nor the Diocletian persecutions of the churchs in North Africa around 200 AD.

There is no instruction ...Catholic Translations nor non Catholic Translations of the Bible for the Church to ever carry out an Inquisition nor a Crusade.
Right here ..at this point is where this Church like so many others...shows itself disobedient...in like manner to the Pharisees bringing the woman caught in adultery before Jesus.
Here is where the Church is discovered..clearly counterfeiting...and switching gods to another god and another church..they dropped the veil.

The church of England is nothing more than Anglican version of Roman Catholicism. Henry VIII only made himself the English Pope.

As the OP is particularly hard on oppression of women in Western Christian social structures...this looks pretty silly in the face of what your previous post quotes about women not being teachers.
While I have not been in a public school in ages....wondering how many women are teachers..from college levels to elementary schools and before. This puts knowledge huge holes in your quote about women teachers.
Most of my time coming up there were mostly women teachers...and this in more religious times here in America than today's secular education.

You need to understand this lesson from history...jakyll...

Christians have always been a minority ...surrounded by the wildlife of this world. It was the same with Ancient Israel. Christians exist today in like manner to Ancient Israel..surrounded by people and nations who don't like them and for what they stand....for His name upon their lips and in their hearts daily.
Christians have always been a minority people. Always will be.

It is interesting to me that you use concealed paganism to define and debate the position of Christianity.

The trail of the Lords Church can be found mostly in books like John Foxe and his Book of Martyrs. They were even persecuted and killed by the Church of England as well as the Catholic Church of Rome and others.

This world is dominantly Pagan..always has been and always will be. Nothing new under the sun here. Much of Paganism is attempting to infiltrate Christianity and pass for Christian. Just as the Pharisees themselves had counterfeited the Law of Moses..and switched gods...while in fact claiming to keep the Law of Moses in all parts..even boasting of this.
My knowledge in this is how I know you are attempting to use a pagan template to overlay and describe Christianity ..and all of Christianity under the Roman template. This is clear to those schooled in Occult fingerprints.

The amazing thing to me about this is the abominable ignorance of many of my Christian Brethren on this history. This is also sad but very true.

Christians are still a minority today.

Thanks,
Gotta rush now,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 





This world is dominantly Pagan..always has been and always will be. Nothing new under the sun here. Much of Paganism is attempting to infiltrate Christianity and pass for Christian. Just as the Pharisees themselves had counterfeited the Law of Moses..and switched gods...while in fact claiming to keep the Law of Moses in all parts..even boasting of this.


Seen as Christianity has stolen the vast majority of its beliefs and practices from paganism,i don't see how paganism can be trying to infiltrate it.Its already there and has been from the very beginning.


So i'm wrong in saying that Rome ruled all Christians.It ruled 95% of them.Which,any way you look at it,is a hell've a lot of people.And trying to downplay the impact the Holy See has had on the world and especially Europe is ridiculus.



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


Christianity has stolen the vast majority of its beliefs and practices from Paganism?? News to me..
To what beliefs and practices do you refer?? Can you itemize them for me??

Somehow I think the concept I am explaining is going over your head.

95% of rule is not ruling all Christianity. You do know this correct?? You also know historically ...that the God of the Bible was never worried about numbers...correct??

I did not say ..downplay the impact of the Holy See on the world..I am saying define it for what it is and has always been. A political/military power....feudal in nature..no different from the multitudes of cultures and civilizations/nations which came before it. THere are no such instructions or groundwork laid for this system in the New Testament...does not exist.
You do however find this fingerprint in the pagan religions. Feudalism/royalty supported by the priesthoods.

Remember something as a track record of history. Moses was not an ordinary Egyptian. He was raised as the son of Pharoah's daughter. On the inside of Egyptian Royalty. He knew the rites and rituals going on inside the Egyptian Temples better than the average Egyptian.
Yet we see no record of him carrying out this religion or practice after his selection and conversion to the Law given by God on Mt. Sinai.
The Apostle Paul after his conversioin...he also was not an ordinary Hebrew. He was raised a Pharisee...in the inner court of the Pharisee sect. He was very knowledgable in the Olde Testament Law of Moses. He knew where and why the Hebrew leadership were disobedient and counterfitting the Law of Moses. After his conversion we see Paul carrying out no more of the Traditions of the Pharisees ..or of men.

THanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to
post by orangetom1999

 




Christianity has stolen the vast majority of its beliefs and practices from
Paganism?? News to me..



"Surely you jest,you jape."

Study Christianity for 10min and you can't miss the fact that it has been influenced
by Paganism.

Heres just a few things.

The cross is one of the oldest known symbols in the world.
Ichthys,the fish symbol,has been used in reference to sexuality and the womb
in many goddess 'cults.'
The Eucharist was part of Mithraism.
The Halo comes from the worship of Apollo.
Baptism also predates Christianity.The early Church Father Tertullian wrote;

in certain Mysteries it is by baptism that members are initiated and
they imagine that the result of this baptism is regeneration and the remission
of the penalties of their sins.

The Virgin Mary and Child image comes from ancient Egypt;Isis and Horus.
The shepherd with a lamb on his shoulders image is from Greece.
www.pocm.info...
Then there's the Christian Holy Days that are deeply rooted in Paganism,
the major ones being Easter and Christmas.

And most important of all is the parallels that appear in the lives of Jesus
and other divine beings such as Dionysius,Krishna,Mithras etc,
but most of all with the Egyptian god Horus.
www.religioustolerance.org...









[edit on 12-10-2008 by jakyll]



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