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The Religious Conspiracy Against Women
page: 3share:
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Oh wow .. just reading in on this thread.. It is indisputable in my view that women are opressed globally within religious structures full stop.. It seems to me the men who felt socially impotent and their own need to try to contain women (and their obviously terrifying creative power in owning a womb), have projected their own feelings of fear and inadequacy into the female gender in the religious 'teachings' all over the shop... it seems clear to me that women are far too powerful and therefore have eternally been undermined and contained by these insecure and fearful men (not God ) with the handing down over the centuries of very stubborn memes.. (ideologies .. ) and like a sturdy gene these destructive memes which authorise the disepowerment of women are rife.. and continue to inform the treatment of women in all religions and society it seems.. I am a woman and I think if women were not so creative by design (as are men truly and equally), smaller-feeling men would not need to claim the creation of the universe for example and all the 'teachings' or man-made rules that went with claiming that particular creative crown so to speak......
You do know that they tried this nonsense in Russia after the 1917 revoultion..correct???
They gave women full equality and made men the second class citizens in the nation for which they were expected to take risks to build and maintain.
The men began leaving thier familys in droves. It turned out to be a disaster for the nation..they had to reverse this trend or face chaos that even they could not handle. You will find this history in this book
Sex and Power in History by Amaury De Riencourt
In most books and historys this knowlege is hidden from us but I was surprised to find it so frankly put out there in this intresting book.
The original post is about Western Christian societys. I totally disagree with him here and have seen him over and over post such nonsense and attempt to utilize the "Victim Dictum" in faulty logic and reason.
I dont know what they do in other countrys and dont particularly care....these places are not here in the West and I feel no such responsiblity to tell another person from another country how to handle thier buisness.
In case you missed it ..my response to the OP on page one of this thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Thanks,
Orangetom
I lived through the Womens lib movement.
Before 945 women in the US were "kept in their place" However during WWII women took over many of the jobs men had been doing and found they could make a decent living and did not have to depend on a man for support. They were also reluctant to give up those jobs after the war.
You also had drastic advances in medicine. A woman didn't have to have pregnancy after pregnancy to have a few children make it to adulthood. We came up with birth control that a woman had complete control over. Also there was no longer a wide open wilderness for excess population and people began thinking of overpopulation as a problem. These changes between 1945 and 1960's a mere few years ,resulted in the equality movement because a womans primary function in society, to produce children,was changed.
On religions. Again History gives the clue. Where does your "wife" come from? Often she was kidnapped from another tribe or you killed off all the men and took over the women and the village. Why kill the "witch"? Because she was the wisewoman and a leader in that captured village. Remember if you keep marrying within the "clan" you run into inbreeding problems and clans with that type of marrage arrangement are more apt to die out. over time.
Religion was therefore shaped to "control" outclan females.
Before 945 women in the US were "kept in their place" However during WWII women took over many of the jobs men had been doing and found they could make a decent living and did not have to depend on a man for support. They were also reluctant to give up those jobs after the war.
You also had drastic advances in medicine. A woman didn't have to have pregnancy after pregnancy to have a few children make it to adulthood. We came up with birth control that a woman had complete control over. Also there was no longer a wide open wilderness for excess population and people began thinking of overpopulation as a problem. These changes between 1945 and 1960's a mere few years ,resulted in the equality movement because a womans primary function in society, to produce children,was changed.
On religions. Again History gives the clue. Where does your "wife" come from? Often she was kidnapped from another tribe or you killed off all the men and took over the women and the village. Why kill the "witch"? Because she was the wisewoman and a leader in that captured village. Remember if you keep marrying within the "clan" you run into inbreeding problems and clans with that type of marrage arrangement are more apt to die out. over time.
Religion was therefore shaped to "control" outclan females.
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread361368/pg3#pid4827326]post by crimvelveth
LOL LOL LOL crimvelveth..LOL LOL
The OP's post is about women suppressed in Western Christian civilizations/societys.
I hear variations of this quote above all the time. YOu do realize that if women are doing the same jobs as men are doing ...and doing a better job of it as is stated in the standard womans movement dogma...that they would be firing all the men and replacing them with women ..yes.??
I say this in particular since so many women are complaining that they make less money per hour than men. Hence once again they would be firing all the men and hiring women who would do the same job cheaper and better.....YES????
Do you know women who engage in a mans typical job..for a career...like for over 30 years??? Suffering hardship...depravity...bad working conditions...heat cold...weather etc etc??
Or are most of them complaining that they cant get jobs with better conditions??? The choicest morsels off the plate so to speak. At the same or better pay as the men of course??
Do you really think those women wanted those jobs in industry as a career for 30 plus years...when they could get married and access to the lifestyle without the risks??
I hear this kind of stuff over and over and over...and ask myself ..what on earth are these women thinking??? Moreover..what on earth are the men out here ...not thinking?? Hey..dude....!!! How about those LA Lakers...wasnt that a great game.!!??
There is no equality movement taking place...it is a hoax. Most of the women I know are intrested in "Options" not equality. Options by whatever method they can get it...children or no children.
What nonsense.
Orangetom
[edit on 17-8-2008 by orangetom1999]
LOL LOL LOL crimvelveth..LOL LOL
The OP's post is about women suppressed in Western Christian civilizations/societys.
Before 945 women in the US were "kept in their place" However during WWII women took over many of the jobs men had been doing and found they could make a decent living and did not have to depend on a man for support. They were also reluctant to give up those jobs after the war.
I hear variations of this quote above all the time. YOu do realize that if women are doing the same jobs as men are doing ...and doing a better job of it as is stated in the standard womans movement dogma...that they would be firing all the men and replacing them with women ..yes.??
I say this in particular since so many women are complaining that they make less money per hour than men. Hence once again they would be firing all the men and hiring women who would do the same job cheaper and better.....YES????
Do you know women who engage in a mans typical job..for a career...like for over 30 years??? Suffering hardship...depravity...bad working conditions...heat cold...weather etc etc??
Or are most of them complaining that they cant get jobs with better conditions??? The choicest morsels off the plate so to speak. At the same or better pay as the men of course??
Do you really think those women wanted those jobs in industry as a career for 30 plus years...when they could get married and access to the lifestyle without the risks??
I hear this kind of stuff over and over and over...and ask myself ..what on earth are these women thinking??? Moreover..what on earth are the men out here ...not thinking?? Hey..dude....!!! How about those LA Lakers...wasnt that a great game.!!??
These changes between 1945 and 1960's a mere few years ,resulted in the equality movement because a womans primary function in society, to produce children,was changed.
There is no equality movement taking place...it is a hoax. Most of the women I know are intrested in "Options" not equality. Options by whatever method they can get it...children or no children.
What nonsense.
Orangetom
[edit on 17-8-2008 by orangetom1999]
The utter and abysmal opression of women continues to this day and right here in America.
Someone earlier posted about "women leading men in home depot"
What we call "feminism" is simply another way of destroying women. By giving them the "rights" of men we have mandated that they function as men... it is power as seen through the eyes of men, but not nearly the innate Spiritual gifts women are blessed with
We have removed them as life bearers, destroyed thier connection to the Goddess, put in it's place... abortion as an option to.... the degrading (in our culture) role of being a Mother, work... a mans duty to a good woman has been not just offered as a right... But rather made mandatory for survival, raising children is..useless work that brings unneeded babies (f'n bs)
Even the freedom of sexuality is not taught as the healing gift it should be... but rather as a masculine orgasm driven, lustful male form of sexuality that does not allow women to reach thier true spiritual potential...
It is woman who... connect with the life force, women who can access sophis, the shekinah, mother earth...the spirit realm naturally and Women who are the target of those that seek Evil in this world.
So long as the spirituality of women is oppressed this world can never be in balance.
Christ attempted to make Mary Magdalene the leader of the religion and for this after all the rest of good he had done, this is why he was killed... Mary was not a Prostitude, but rather a priestess and some of her roles rewuired the use of practices we would call sex magick, she was among if not the last of her kind in Judaism in a world in which Women were about to face the greatest witch hunt of all times...
It is little better today than it was then and this is seriously and for real the greatest spiritual crisis that faces mankind, we are utterly spiritually out of balance, world wide and in every culture because of this...
Women need to be restored to their rightful place as the spiritual leaders of our religions if there is to ever be peace on earth
Someone earlier posted about "women leading men in home depot"
What we call "feminism" is simply another way of destroying women. By giving them the "rights" of men we have mandated that they function as men... it is power as seen through the eyes of men, but not nearly the innate Spiritual gifts women are blessed with
We have removed them as life bearers, destroyed thier connection to the Goddess, put in it's place... abortion as an option to.... the degrading (in our culture) role of being a Mother, work... a mans duty to a good woman has been not just offered as a right... But rather made mandatory for survival, raising children is..useless work that brings unneeded babies (f'n bs)
Even the freedom of sexuality is not taught as the healing gift it should be... but rather as a masculine orgasm driven, lustful male form of sexuality that does not allow women to reach thier true spiritual potential...
It is woman who... connect with the life force, women who can access sophis, the shekinah, mother earth...the spirit realm naturally and Women who are the target of those that seek Evil in this world.
So long as the spirituality of women is oppressed this world can never be in balance.
Christ attempted to make Mary Magdalene the leader of the religion and for this after all the rest of good he had done, this is why he was killed... Mary was not a Prostitude, but rather a priestess and some of her roles rewuired the use of practices we would call sex magick, she was among if not the last of her kind in Judaism in a world in which Women were about to face the greatest witch hunt of all times...
It is little better today than it was then and this is seriously and for real the greatest spiritual crisis that faces mankind, we are utterly spiritually out of balance, world wide and in every culture because of this...
Women need to be restored to their rightful place as the spiritual leaders of our religions if there is to ever be peace on earth
reply to post by orangetom1999
Don't I wish. If this is true then why did I attend meeting after meeting where a problem was presented, I suggested a solution in the first 5 minutes, which was ignored, and then twenty minutes later a chem engineer (male) repeated my idea verbatim and was told "that's a great idea!" Why was two years of my research handed to my new less well educated boss, who was then congratulated on his brilliant solution to a problem he didn't even understand? Why did I find a major paper I had written in another country with the cover page changed and a man's name on it instead? I spent thirty years having my work used to promote some man while I stayed on the bottom rung at company after company. I wonder how many managers were promoted based on the work of their secretaries? How many lawyers are considered brilliant because of the work done by their legal secretaries and research assistants? I know d@#m well several men were promoted based on my work and the work of a friend of mine.
Try your arguments on someone who was not used as a stepping stone! Who was told she could not become an engineer , could not have the managers position... I hate being called a "femminist" when I try to distinguish myself from a rug. I am an individual and I belong to NO GROUP.
You do realize that if women are doing the same jobs as men are doing ...and doing a better job of it as is stated in the standard womans movement dogma...that they would be firing all the men and replacing them with women ..yes.??
Don't I wish. If this is true then why did I attend meeting after meeting where a problem was presented, I suggested a solution in the first 5 minutes, which was ignored, and then twenty minutes later a chem engineer (male) repeated my idea verbatim and was told "that's a great idea!" Why was two years of my research handed to my new less well educated boss, who was then congratulated on his brilliant solution to a problem he didn't even understand? Why did I find a major paper I had written in another country with the cover page changed and a man's name on it instead? I spent thirty years having my work used to promote some man while I stayed on the bottom rung at company after company. I wonder how many managers were promoted based on the work of their secretaries? How many lawyers are considered brilliant because of the work done by their legal secretaries and research assistants? I know d@#m well several men were promoted based on my work and the work of a friend of mine.
Try your arguments on someone who was not used as a stepping stone! Who was told she could not become an engineer , could not have the managers position... I hate being called a "femminist" when I try to distinguish myself from a rug. I am an individual and I belong to NO GROUP.
Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by orangetom1999
You do realize that if women are doing the same jobs as men are doing ...and doing a better job of it as is stated in the standard womans movement dogma...that they would be firing all the men and replacing them with women ..yes.??
Don't I wish. If this is true then why did I attend meeting after meeting where a problem was presented, I suggested a solution in the first 5 minutes, which was ignored, and then twenty minutes later a chem engineer (male) repeated my idea verbatim and was told "that's a great idea!" Why was two years of my research handed to my new less well educated boss, who was then congratulated on his brilliant solution to a problem he didn't even understand? Why did I find a major paper I had written in another country with the cover page changed and a man's name on it instead? I spent thirty years having my work used to promote some man while I stayed on the bottom rung at company after company. I wonder how many managers were promoted based on the work of their secretaries? How many lawyers are considered brilliant because of the work done by their legal secretaries and research assistants? I know d@#m well several men were promoted based on my work and the work of a friend of mine.
Try your arguments on someone who was not used as a stepping stone! Who was told she could not become an engineer , could not have the managers position... I hate being called a "femminist" when I try to distinguish myself from a rug. I am an individual and I belong to NO GROUP.
What you are saying, I totally understand, sciences and engineering and computers can be ridiculously hard on women in terms of success potential.
But what the OP is talking about is the religous conspiracy against women...
and, it's a very valid thing and what you guys are arguing is sort of off topic...
Because... the Root of the problem overall comes from, the Power source of women having been eliminated... When being a mother, is not respected and women concentrate on careers first over spiritual, sexual and other sources of True Female Empowerment... Little boys are being raised without Mothers...
so they never learn to respect women in the first place and all hope of a woman going into lets say... an engineering Job and being listened too when she talks... is completely lost.
And... I'm not refering to a society like Islam or America pre-feminism, where, a woman was forced to be at home but that role was Secondary to the Mans role but rather a system where that Role is the Leadership or at least equal partnership in a family... that system is virtually non existant in the world today... Matriarchy in any form.
I have to maintain...that the source of the problem could be eliminated if women were rstored to their rightful place as spiritual leaders... because men will always dominate...Male power structures, dominance based tribal gathering like... a board meeting.
If you want equality, putting women in a place where they are recognized as representing a higher authority than the things of Power... is essential for women to be respected by men in general.
THIS REPORT IS ADDRESSED TO:
• LDS women taking antidepressants, and/or considering or undergoing psychological therapy, especially LDS women of color, Lesbian LDS women, and LDS women temple-married to homosexual men.
• Those concerned about women as above described.
• LDS religious counselors, and LDS professional psychological therapists who treat women as above described.
packham.n4m.org...
• LDS women taking antidepressants, and/or considering or undergoing psychological therapy, especially LDS women of color, Lesbian LDS women, and LDS women temple-married to homosexual men.
• Those concerned about women as above described.
• LDS religious counselors, and LDS professional psychological therapists who treat women as above described.
packham.n4m.org...
reply to post by mopusvindictus
Sorry about the off topic but I hate the young puppies who don't have a clue trying to tell me I did not experience 30 years of inequality.
Back to the main topic. You are right. I firmly believe agriculture, the planting of seed and caring for livestock was a female invention. It is known hunter-gathers who traveled a circuit planted seeds and actually selected for improvement well before they ever settled in villages. And fairly recently a woman actually nursed a fawn along with her son. I imagine something similar was the start of livestock farming. Both of these seem to indicate female not male as the first farmers/ holders of land. This would lead to females to being considered “givers” of life ie goddesses. If I recall several more primitive cultures consider the home as belonging to the woman. I think a male view point religion came from the conquering of villages, and the enslaving of the women. Christianity always struck me as a religion designed to keep slaves in line.
Sorry about the off topic but I hate the young puppies who don't have a clue trying to tell me I did not experience 30 years of inequality.
Back to the main topic. You are right. I firmly believe agriculture, the planting of seed and caring for livestock was a female invention. It is known hunter-gathers who traveled a circuit planted seeds and actually selected for improvement well before they ever settled in villages. And fairly recently a woman actually nursed a fawn along with her son. I imagine something similar was the start of livestock farming. Both of these seem to indicate female not male as the first farmers/ holders of land. This would lead to females to being considered “givers” of life ie goddesses. If I recall several more primitive cultures consider the home as belonging to the woman. I think a male view point religion came from the conquering of villages, and the enslaving of the women. Christianity always struck me as a religion designed to keep slaves in line.
reply to post by crimvelvet
Can't really blame "christianity" persay... the problem ties deeply into the story of Christ who was extremely "progressive" in terms of human rights... The jewish priests were under extreme pressure at the time to eliminate female priests and this was the final issue where Christ had made a stand... not just saving Mary Magdalene a female Priest from stoning but having 7 other disciples who were also females...
The Romans essentially destroyed any record they found of her teachings of Christ and in the end all the female apostles works were eliminated... Mary herself is believed to have fled to France
Christianity and Judaism both were pushed by outside forces to not include women
But the further back you go you will see that Judaism itself was Monothiestic but from a Male?Female dualistic perspective of G-d having 2 seperate sides to /him/herself
Definitely not invented to opprese women rather altered by others to do so by force...
Can't really blame "christianity" persay... the problem ties deeply into the story of Christ who was extremely "progressive" in terms of human rights... The jewish priests were under extreme pressure at the time to eliminate female priests and this was the final issue where Christ had made a stand... not just saving Mary Magdalene a female Priest from stoning but having 7 other disciples who were also females...
The Romans essentially destroyed any record they found of her teachings of Christ and in the end all the female apostles works were eliminated... Mary herself is believed to have fled to France
Christianity and Judaism both were pushed by outside forces to not include women
But the further back you go you will see that Judaism itself was Monothiestic but from a Male?Female dualistic perspective of G-d having 2 seperate sides to /him/herself
Definitely not invented to opprese women rather altered by others to do so by force...
reply to post by orangetom1999
as far as your journey through the home depot....
all your rambling...just goes to show that those women out there that are trying to convince other women that God wants them to be submissive, obedient ect. to their husbands....
just don't believe what they are preaching!! or well, this isn't a nation with a heavy majority of christians in it. I used to visit a forum that was primarily aimed at domestic abuse victims. these women (and men) would come on trying to convince the women that ya, it's God's way, submit and obey your husband...
well, every now and then, one of them would suddenly post something like...."oh, I didn't realize it was so late....my husband will be home in minutes, and he doesn't want me posting on these boards!".....
doesn't sound all that submissive or obedient to me. the simple truth was, it wouldn't have hurt her one iota to stay off that forum......contrary to some of the women on that forum who well, quite frankly, submission and obedience could have meant that when the man says to come here, and she knows danged well that his intention is to knock her around some, that she does what he says!!
I mean, am I missing the meaning of the words here??
also, I think many have overlooked a major contributor to the mess that we have now. Industrialization has served to strip women of much of her role and income opportunities! she was the weaver, the sewer, the ceramics maker, rug maker, ect. when industrialization came into the picture, those things could be made much cheaper by factories...and thus, sold for cheaper prices. she now HAD to go into the factories to earn the money she was originally earning at home! this was before the women's movement and if you look hard enough you can find historical documents that prove that these women did indeed move from home into the factory to earn the money....just like they are now in china and elsewhere where the industrial revolution is just now hitting!
but I have to ask this.....every now and then, well, we hear stories about how some school in some islamic country has burned to the ground, and the world is appalled to learn that the girls that were attending that school were locked into their rooms....to keep them from getting into trouble...
there are similar stories that can be found in the historical record from this country...women, and children, lock in the factories, to keep them from wondering off.
ever hear of stories where the men were locked in the schools, or the factories....lest they run off to the bar to get drunk??
no, of course not! wonder why that is? just like I wonder why it is that single moms are thought of so lowly, while for the father involved, it's like another trophy!
I wouldn't be spending much time at all here, debating this stupid topic, but well, the religeous have taken it upon themselves to step their foot into the political, and it seems to be their intention of putting women "back in her place"...never mind that her place has been taken from her by the industrial revolution, thus, she really has no place, at least not in the world of economics.
going backward is not an option.
[edit on 18-8-2008 by dawnstar]
as far as your journey through the home depot....
all your rambling...just goes to show that those women out there that are trying to convince other women that God wants them to be submissive, obedient ect. to their husbands....
just don't believe what they are preaching!! or well, this isn't a nation with a heavy majority of christians in it. I used to visit a forum that was primarily aimed at domestic abuse victims. these women (and men) would come on trying to convince the women that ya, it's God's way, submit and obey your husband...
well, every now and then, one of them would suddenly post something like...."oh, I didn't realize it was so late....my husband will be home in minutes, and he doesn't want me posting on these boards!".....
doesn't sound all that submissive or obedient to me. the simple truth was, it wouldn't have hurt her one iota to stay off that forum......contrary to some of the women on that forum who well, quite frankly, submission and obedience could have meant that when the man says to come here, and she knows danged well that his intention is to knock her around some, that she does what he says!!
I mean, am I missing the meaning of the words here??
also, I think many have overlooked a major contributor to the mess that we have now. Industrialization has served to strip women of much of her role and income opportunities! she was the weaver, the sewer, the ceramics maker, rug maker, ect. when industrialization came into the picture, those things could be made much cheaper by factories...and thus, sold for cheaper prices. she now HAD to go into the factories to earn the money she was originally earning at home! this was before the women's movement and if you look hard enough you can find historical documents that prove that these women did indeed move from home into the factory to earn the money....just like they are now in china and elsewhere where the industrial revolution is just now hitting!
but I have to ask this.....every now and then, well, we hear stories about how some school in some islamic country has burned to the ground, and the world is appalled to learn that the girls that were attending that school were locked into their rooms....to keep them from getting into trouble...
there are similar stories that can be found in the historical record from this country...women, and children, lock in the factories, to keep them from wondering off.
ever hear of stories where the men were locked in the schools, or the factories....lest they run off to the bar to get drunk??
no, of course not! wonder why that is? just like I wonder why it is that single moms are thought of so lowly, while for the father involved, it's like another trophy!
I wouldn't be spending much time at all here, debating this stupid topic, but well, the religeous have taken it upon themselves to step their foot into the political, and it seems to be their intention of putting women "back in her place"...never mind that her place has been taken from her by the industrial revolution, thus, she really has no place, at least not in the world of economics.
going backward is not an option.
[edit on 18-8-2008 by dawnstar]
Because... the Root of the problem overall comes from, the Power source of women having been eliminated... When being a mother, is not respected and
women concentrate on careers first over spiritual, sexual and other sources of True Female Empowerment... Little boys are being raised without
Mothers...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was a stay at home mom for much of my kid's childhood....
but well...care to answer a question for me...
why was it, that while my husband could get affordable insurance for himself through his employer, the cost to insure me and the kids was so rediculous? why is it now that soceity sees fit to have a nice program that just about assures that the kids can be insured, but is still leaving out the stay at home moms??
health insurance is a necessity, otherwise, well, why do we have so many different programs to ensure that "the needy" have it....and well, if it is so advantageous for women to be home raising these kids...why is it that those stay at home moms are being left out and ignored when it comes to help in this area. after all, they need medical care if they are gonna pop babies out of them aren't they. and to put it even more bluntly...it is more affordable for a stay at home uninsured mom to have an abortion than it is to have a baby!!
yes, I was home for a great part of my kid's childhood, I would have rather have been working!! I just didn't have a choice in the matter after the government decided to start subsidizing the "needy's" childcare....that would have been $9 taken out of my paycheck every for every hour that the kids were in childcare, which well, sometimes was an hour or more longer than I was actually working. add to that $9 an hour the taxes that are taken out, and well, you are talking about a few dollars of deficit for each hour I would have worked!
and well, ya know what...
as time goes by, I am seeing more and more men with sole custody of thier children...guess what...
I don't see where they are handling things any better than the single moms....they are having the same problems, their incomes are being affected in the same manner, they are changing careers to ones that are more friendly to the idea that they have to be home more often for the kids, they are getting calls from the school and having to fly away at a moment's notice, they are having to ask for help also. so, it isn't that women are less qualified to do the jobs, or that they are deliberately avoiding the "real work" or the more "riskier"work...it's that childrearing is really quite demanding and quite often interfers with the jobs!
but, you tell me, just how the heck else is a wife of a moderate income husband susposed to get healthcare in this country!
[edit on 18-8-2008 by dawnstar]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was a stay at home mom for much of my kid's childhood....
but well...care to answer a question for me...
why was it, that while my husband could get affordable insurance for himself through his employer, the cost to insure me and the kids was so rediculous? why is it now that soceity sees fit to have a nice program that just about assures that the kids can be insured, but is still leaving out the stay at home moms??
health insurance is a necessity, otherwise, well, why do we have so many different programs to ensure that "the needy" have it....and well, if it is so advantageous for women to be home raising these kids...why is it that those stay at home moms are being left out and ignored when it comes to help in this area. after all, they need medical care if they are gonna pop babies out of them aren't they. and to put it even more bluntly...it is more affordable for a stay at home uninsured mom to have an abortion than it is to have a baby!!
yes, I was home for a great part of my kid's childhood, I would have rather have been working!! I just didn't have a choice in the matter after the government decided to start subsidizing the "needy's" childcare....that would have been $9 taken out of my paycheck every for every hour that the kids were in childcare, which well, sometimes was an hour or more longer than I was actually working. add to that $9 an hour the taxes that are taken out, and well, you are talking about a few dollars of deficit for each hour I would have worked!
and well, ya know what...
as time goes by, I am seeing more and more men with sole custody of thier children...guess what...
I don't see where they are handling things any better than the single moms....they are having the same problems, their incomes are being affected in the same manner, they are changing careers to ones that are more friendly to the idea that they have to be home more often for the kids, they are getting calls from the school and having to fly away at a moment's notice, they are having to ask for help also. so, it isn't that women are less qualified to do the jobs, or that they are deliberately avoiding the "real work" or the more "riskier"work...it's that childrearing is really quite demanding and quite often interfers with the jobs!
but, you tell me, just how the heck else is a wife of a moderate income husband susposed to get healthcare in this country!
[edit on 18-8-2008 by dawnstar]
Is MIMS arguing for the women running things and then in more responsibility turning the bulk of thier proceeds or earnings over to the male and
children for thier decision making where the females come in last.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
but, if you go through the historical records, you can find a speech by either elizabeth stanton, or susan anthony that was given to the NY legislator, occasionally I go through the hassle of tracking it down online and posting it...I just ain't in the mood today...
but, well... that speech seems to indicate that that was exactly how things went in her time!!
someone else mentioned that women weren't able to have bank accounts, take out loans, ect....well gee...if they weren't allowed to have bank accounts, what else could they have done but sign the check over to the man for him to deposit into his bank account or if paid in cash, where were they to put if for safekeeping?
why was it that when those nice rebate checks came in the mail from the government that one check came, in both my and my husband's name? why not two checks, one in his name, one in mine? why was it that when went for some financial assistance for my foot, they insisted on looking at my husband's income as if it was mine, but well, when asked outright, point blank, if it would be legally okay for me to take his money (he earned it, it is technically his) and spend it for the healthcare, well, the answer was no!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
but, if you go through the historical records, you can find a speech by either elizabeth stanton, or susan anthony that was given to the NY legislator, occasionally I go through the hassle of tracking it down online and posting it...I just ain't in the mood today...
but, well... that speech seems to indicate that that was exactly how things went in her time!!
someone else mentioned that women weren't able to have bank accounts, take out loans, ect....well gee...if they weren't allowed to have bank accounts, what else could they have done but sign the check over to the man for him to deposit into his bank account or if paid in cash, where were they to put if for safekeeping?
why was it that when those nice rebate checks came in the mail from the government that one check came, in both my and my husband's name? why not two checks, one in his name, one in mine? why was it that when went for some financial assistance for my foot, they insisted on looking at my husband's income as if it was mine, but well, when asked outright, point blank, if it would be legally okay for me to take his money (he earned it, it is technically his) and spend it for the healthcare, well, the answer was no!
reply to post by mopusvindictus
Mopusvindictus,
I tend to agree with this statement of yours..
It seems to me that feminism started out with good ideas but got hijacked along the way like so many things with political potential. History is replete with these examples. THe sad thing is that so many women have bought into this hijacking. Also have so many men in silence too.
If I am reading your post correctly raising children is indeed important work and requiring both a father and a mother. I see more fathers nowdays getting more involved with the children..such that there are now change tables in the mens bathrooms. FAthers too are important in raising the children and once again..Raising Children in the face of all the corruption of this world is indeed important work. Male and female.
However...this..
and this
These two quotes are right out of gnosticism...the occult. In most of occult writings ....the power is in the males...even in the fertility principles. One can find this if one reads real occult books involving the gnostic, wisemen, sophist priinciples. Not the stuff from Barns and Noble and Amazon.
This religion has been around for thousands of years..long before Christianity in it's pedigree. Yet as a historical track record it did little anywhere you see it in the world and world history ..in changing the lifestyle of the ordinary person..the ordinary peon. It mostly supported the Royalty and the priesthood class. Mostly where you found it ...a few people lived well on the labors of others...the rest had almost nothing...a below subistence level standard of living.
Very little changed under the Feudal Occult systems. THese systems are the origins of the Sophism...the Gnosticism attempting to return today.
In this country we even graduate from schools with the Mortar Board of Gnosticism upon our head...not accidental. Wise men..sophists.
As to Mary Magdaline ...I have not read that she was either a prostitute or a priestess in my Bible. I am wondering from whence you get this stance.
What I also know about Sex Magick is that no where in the Bible ..both Olde and New Testaments do you ever find an instruction for a Hebrew or a Believer to define anything about themselves by their sexualitly.
What is known is that the Heathen or Pagan nations surrounding Ancient Israel were already doing this Sex Magick principle. This is why the Hebrews were instructed not to do as the nations around them were doing.
It is an abomination...and being attempted to be brought back in our institutions of higher learning by todays sophists, gnostics, and those teaching us into earning the Mortar Bord of such sophism and gnosticism.
It is indeed a religion. Always has been and always will be.
Peace is one of the names, among many, of Jesus the Christ for remission of sins. It does not mean peace on earth..in human terms...as in an abscence of strife.
Women being restored to thier "rightful" place as the spiritual leaders of our religions will only bring back the olde ways and there was nothing peaceful about them. Back then or even today.
Thanks,
Orangetom
Mopusvindictus,
I tend to agree with this statement of yours..
What we call "feminism" is simply another way of destroying women.
It seems to me that feminism started out with good ideas but got hijacked along the way like so many things with political potential. History is replete with these examples. THe sad thing is that so many women have bought into this hijacking. Also have so many men in silence too.
raising children is..useless work that brings unneeded babies (f'n bs)
If I am reading your post correctly raising children is indeed important work and requiring both a father and a mother. I see more fathers nowdays getting more involved with the children..such that there are now change tables in the mens bathrooms. FAthers too are important in raising the children and once again..Raising Children in the face of all the corruption of this world is indeed important work. Male and female.
However...this..
Even the freedom of sexuality is not taught as the healing gift it should be... but rather as a masculine orgasm driven, lustful male form of sexuality that does not allow women to reach thier true spiritual potential...
and this
It is woman who... connect with the life force, women who can access sophis, the shekinah, mother earth...the spirit realm naturally and Women who are the target of those that seek Evil in this world.
These two quotes are right out of gnosticism...the occult. In most of occult writings ....the power is in the males...even in the fertility principles. One can find this if one reads real occult books involving the gnostic, wisemen, sophist priinciples. Not the stuff from Barns and Noble and Amazon.
This religion has been around for thousands of years..long before Christianity in it's pedigree. Yet as a historical track record it did little anywhere you see it in the world and world history ..in changing the lifestyle of the ordinary person..the ordinary peon. It mostly supported the Royalty and the priesthood class. Mostly where you found it ...a few people lived well on the labors of others...the rest had almost nothing...a below subistence level standard of living.
Very little changed under the Feudal Occult systems. THese systems are the origins of the Sophism...the Gnosticism attempting to return today.
In this country we even graduate from schools with the Mortar Board of Gnosticism upon our head...not accidental. Wise men..sophists.
As to Mary Magdaline ...I have not read that she was either a prostitute or a priestess in my Bible. I am wondering from whence you get this stance.
What I also know about Sex Magick is that no where in the Bible ..both Olde and New Testaments do you ever find an instruction for a Hebrew or a Believer to define anything about themselves by their sexualitly.
What is known is that the Heathen or Pagan nations surrounding Ancient Israel were already doing this Sex Magick principle. This is why the Hebrews were instructed not to do as the nations around them were doing.
It is an abomination...and being attempted to be brought back in our institutions of higher learning by todays sophists, gnostics, and those teaching us into earning the Mortar Bord of such sophism and gnosticism.
It is indeed a religion. Always has been and always will be.
Women need to be restored to their rightful place as the spiritual leaders of our religions if there is to ever be peace on earth
Peace is one of the names, among many, of Jesus the Christ for remission of sins. It does not mean peace on earth..in human terms...as in an abscence of strife.
Women being restored to thier "rightful" place as the spiritual leaders of our religions will only bring back the olde ways and there was nothing peaceful about them. Back then or even today.
Thanks,
Orangetom
reply to post by crimvelvet
Crimvelvet,
I realize that you are not all women...
I also know that many men have found themselves in the position in which you have found yourself.
My statement was about women ..not one woman ..
However since you are wont to bring it up in such a manner...Am I to understand you stayed for 30 years under such a system??
THink about that in the context of the entirety of your post.
I have also heard the same complaint from the men here where I work..that others often hijack their work and reuse or reissue it as their own. Hence, under such a system often progress is suppressed under such hijacking. This also happens to men.
THe woman I am seeing has often had her work "hijacked' by women in positions above her..not as creative but in positions of power. This is not only a male phenomonon. Less qualified women have even tried to cut her throat per se..for her job. This is not only a male phenomonon. As time goes by women have shown themselves just as adept at the politics and corruption as have men. And with much more subtilty too. I do not automatically buy into that type of "Victim Dictum" as is so often wont to be played on these posts.
Women are not martyrs here in this...these things do not automatically play through undebated by me.
Mopusvindictus,
I dont automatically again..buy into this position...
They ...both little boys and little girls... are being raised without fathers and mothers. They are also being raised in front of a television and cellphone. Not a good tradeoff. I see alot of this..children who can define themselves ...by the next product they consume or believe themselves entitled...yet know so little about religion or the world around them..nor thier history as a people..even the history of thier immediate family.
When one recognizes the extent of this disease..it is very pitiful. This applies today to many adults as well.
"They" ..good consumers dont learn to respect much of anything other than thier next consumption level..even if it means consuming each other. This is in fact much of what we see out here and it is indeed a religion and the fruit of a religion.
How many peoples do you know who define themselves by the goods they consume and glorify?? How many people do you know who cannot define a moral concept or a thinking idea outside of some movie or television program they have watched? They have no original ideas of thier own..their thinking and values are television and movie values.
Talk about robots and automatons. They are running a program ..just like this computer..complete with default settings.
This is a very strange statement Mopusvindictus. For I know that fertility religons are power.. todays fertility religions are very similar in principle to the olde ancient ones and they are the dominant power ..not seen but felt across the board. Occult, hidden, concealed, esoteric. THe only difference today is that technology has been instituted to make the olde fertility religions up to date...and in control.
I also think you meant to say in your quote above..that women "earn " their way into these places just like the men had to do..not "putting" them in these places..gratis...by entitlement. Automatically..buy default but by laboring thier way,..just as do the men...yes?? This would be equalty..yes??
Most of the women I know..when the rubber meets the road..they are not interested in equality..but options...and without certain RISKS in earning it.
Magick..particularly sex magick...is an occult manner of acquiring life without RISK. Occult religions ..on the street level are dominated by women. It is a womans way of justifying entitlement...until many of them finally grow up and realize that life takes REAL RISK..not magick. Real Risk, male and female both.
On the highest levels of Occult, gnostic, sophist religions ..they are dominated by men. It is ironic that most people..especially women do not seem to understand this concept. However..in fairness once again..most men I know are more intrested in the gods of sports to think this through themselves.
However...since you are wont to take this tack..I will take the liberty of telling you...point blank.
I have dealt with Occult Luciferians right out of the fertility religions......and observed twice a most unusual and strange phenomonon.
THrough a series of logical questions I have gotten two of them to admit to me that there is a counterfit and occult system going on in this country and throughout the world.
They have also admitted to me that this system is a religion.
When I asked them the final question...Give me the name of the god of this counterfit occult system..?? They could not give me the name of thier god. They both at different times this was done..told me that they were under oath..they could not give me the name of their god.
Now that ...Mopusvindictus..is an extremely weird and strange phenomonon to behold with ones own eyes. I did not doubt them...that they could not give me the name. What was also clear to me by the look of fear and doubt in their eyes..is that they knew that I knew the name of their god.
I do not put alot of stock in occult fertility religions of any type. For I know the name of that god. By name.
Something else you need to know here Mopusvindictus. Jesus Christ was not progressive. One thing is very obvious by the both the New and Olde Testaments..
Jesus Christ was here to do His Fathers work..not His own in the human sense. He was obedient to His father. He did not promte Himself.
THose who were progressive..even revolutionary in nature where the Hebrew leadership. For it was they who claimed to be observing and keeping the Law of Moses in all parts when the record clearly shows that they did no such thing but instead secretly and privily were inserting the "traditions of men" the occult fertility principles into and overlaid on the Law of Moses as if it were in fact the Law of Moses. It was no such thing. When prophets were sent to tell them they were doing wrong and to repent..they killed these prophets.
It is clear ..without a doubt ...that the Hebrew leadership were hijackers and disobedient progressives...even revolutionarys..overthrowing by occult, gnostic, sophist, secrecy... what they were told to do in the Law of Moses. They were secretly and privily doing the very conduct of the nations surrounding them for which they were told specifically ..not to do.
We have the written record of this transgression today in our Bibles.
However..to be truthful and fair about this..many of the so called Believers and their churchs are following this occult, gnostic, sophist, secrecy and dont even know it. They havent a clue.
That is in fact exactly how a counterfit works on a people..they dont even have a clue it is taking place. A counterfit is not the opposite of a thing but as close to the real thing as possible...without being the real thing in order to pass.
It takes some training to spot it but it can be done.
Now ...I have made a long post here...
If you or any others out here think this long dissertation is crazy or out of date..not current..or even foolishness. Observe this liine of thought...Carefully.....
I took long pains to describe the experience I had at different times with two Occult Luciferians. Enough to know without a doubt that they were under oath and could not tell me the name of thier god. I have no doubt that these two Occult Luciferians were telling me the truth. One cannot fake the look in thier eyes to such a totally unexpected question. One for which they were not spiritually prepared.
What I need you or any others out here of understanding to clarify for me ....is how what I have described in the two Occult Luciferianss .....is any different from the desperate covering technique...of a recent presidential candidate...in stating.
"That is above my pay grade!!"
How is this differernt ...not only this candidate..but the legions attempting to shill and cover for him ...who are also involved in the same religion?? I am speaking here of the news media...legions!!
Dont worry..I view all of politics through the same prizm. They are all doing it. It is just that in this instance..the candidate...particularly dropped the veil.
For you see...Modusvindictus...I am also now in posession of the name of the god of this political candidate.
Thanks,
Orangetom
[edit on 19-8-2008 by orangetom1999]
Crimvelvet,
I realize that you are not all women...
I also know that many men have found themselves in the position in which you have found yourself.
My statement was about women ..not one woman ..
However since you are wont to bring it up in such a manner...Am I to understand you stayed for 30 years under such a system??
THink about that in the context of the entirety of your post.
I have also heard the same complaint from the men here where I work..that others often hijack their work and reuse or reissue it as their own. Hence, under such a system often progress is suppressed under such hijacking. This also happens to men.
THe woman I am seeing has often had her work "hijacked' by women in positions above her..not as creative but in positions of power. This is not only a male phenomonon. Less qualified women have even tried to cut her throat per se..for her job. This is not only a male phenomonon. As time goes by women have shown themselves just as adept at the politics and corruption as have men. And with much more subtilty too. I do not automatically buy into that type of "Victim Dictum" as is so often wont to be played on these posts.
Women are not martyrs here in this...these things do not automatically play through undebated by me.
Mopusvindictus,
I dont automatically again..buy into this position...
Little boys are being raised without Mothers...
They ...both little boys and little girls... are being raised without fathers and mothers. They are also being raised in front of a television and cellphone. Not a good tradeoff. I see alot of this..children who can define themselves ...by the next product they consume or believe themselves entitled...yet know so little about religion or the world around them..nor thier history as a people..even the history of thier immediate family.
When one recognizes the extent of this disease..it is very pitiful. This applies today to many adults as well.
so they never learn to respect women in the first place and all hope of a woman going into lets say... an engineering Job and being listened too when she talks... is completely lost.
"They" ..good consumers dont learn to respect much of anything other than thier next consumption level..even if it means consuming each other. This is in fact much of what we see out here and it is indeed a religion and the fruit of a religion.
How many peoples do you know who define themselves by the goods they consume and glorify?? How many people do you know who cannot define a moral concept or a thinking idea outside of some movie or television program they have watched? They have no original ideas of thier own..their thinking and values are television and movie values.
Talk about robots and automatons. They are running a program ..just like this computer..complete with default settings.
If you want equality, putting women in a place where they are recognized as representing a higher authority than the things of Power... is essential for women to be respected by men in general.
This is a very strange statement Mopusvindictus. For I know that fertility religons are power.. todays fertility religions are very similar in principle to the olde ancient ones and they are the dominant power ..not seen but felt across the board. Occult, hidden, concealed, esoteric. THe only difference today is that technology has been instituted to make the olde fertility religions up to date...and in control.
I also think you meant to say in your quote above..that women "earn " their way into these places just like the men had to do..not "putting" them in these places..gratis...by entitlement. Automatically..buy default but by laboring thier way,..just as do the men...yes?? This would be equalty..yes??
Most of the women I know..when the rubber meets the road..they are not interested in equality..but options...and without certain RISKS in earning it.
Magick..particularly sex magick...is an occult manner of acquiring life without RISK. Occult religions ..on the street level are dominated by women. It is a womans way of justifying entitlement...until many of them finally grow up and realize that life takes REAL RISK..not magick. Real Risk, male and female both.
On the highest levels of Occult, gnostic, sophist religions ..they are dominated by men. It is ironic that most people..especially women do not seem to understand this concept. However..in fairness once again..most men I know are more intrested in the gods of sports to think this through themselves.
However...since you are wont to take this tack..I will take the liberty of telling you...point blank.
I have dealt with Occult Luciferians right out of the fertility religions......and observed twice a most unusual and strange phenomonon.
THrough a series of logical questions I have gotten two of them to admit to me that there is a counterfit and occult system going on in this country and throughout the world.
They have also admitted to me that this system is a religion.
When I asked them the final question...Give me the name of the god of this counterfit occult system..?? They could not give me the name of thier god. They both at different times this was done..told me that they were under oath..they could not give me the name of their god.
Now that ...Mopusvindictus..is an extremely weird and strange phenomonon to behold with ones own eyes. I did not doubt them...that they could not give me the name. What was also clear to me by the look of fear and doubt in their eyes..is that they knew that I knew the name of their god.
I do not put alot of stock in occult fertility religions of any type. For I know the name of that god. By name.
Something else you need to know here Mopusvindictus. Jesus Christ was not progressive. One thing is very obvious by the both the New and Olde Testaments..
Jesus Christ was here to do His Fathers work..not His own in the human sense. He was obedient to His father. He did not promte Himself.
THose who were progressive..even revolutionary in nature where the Hebrew leadership. For it was they who claimed to be observing and keeping the Law of Moses in all parts when the record clearly shows that they did no such thing but instead secretly and privily were inserting the "traditions of men" the occult fertility principles into and overlaid on the Law of Moses as if it were in fact the Law of Moses. It was no such thing. When prophets were sent to tell them they were doing wrong and to repent..they killed these prophets.
It is clear ..without a doubt ...that the Hebrew leadership were hijackers and disobedient progressives...even revolutionarys..overthrowing by occult, gnostic, sophist, secrecy... what they were told to do in the Law of Moses. They were secretly and privily doing the very conduct of the nations surrounding them for which they were told specifically ..not to do.
We have the written record of this transgression today in our Bibles.
However..to be truthful and fair about this..many of the so called Believers and their churchs are following this occult, gnostic, sophist, secrecy and dont even know it. They havent a clue.
That is in fact exactly how a counterfit works on a people..they dont even have a clue it is taking place. A counterfit is not the opposite of a thing but as close to the real thing as possible...without being the real thing in order to pass.
It takes some training to spot it but it can be done.
Now ...I have made a long post here...
If you or any others out here think this long dissertation is crazy or out of date..not current..or even foolishness. Observe this liine of thought...Carefully.....
I took long pains to describe the experience I had at different times with two Occult Luciferians. Enough to know without a doubt that they were under oath and could not tell me the name of thier god. I have no doubt that these two Occult Luciferians were telling me the truth. One cannot fake the look in thier eyes to such a totally unexpected question. One for which they were not spiritually prepared.
What I need you or any others out here of understanding to clarify for me ....is how what I have described in the two Occult Luciferianss .....is any different from the desperate covering technique...of a recent presidential candidate...in stating.
"That is above my pay grade!!"
How is this differernt ...not only this candidate..but the legions attempting to shill and cover for him ...who are also involved in the same religion?? I am speaking here of the news media...legions!!
Dont worry..I view all of politics through the same prizm. They are all doing it. It is just that in this instance..the candidate...particularly dropped the veil.
For you see...Modusvindictus...I am also now in posession of the name of the god of this political candidate.
Thanks,
Orangetom
[edit on 19-8-2008 by orangetom1999]
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Oh wow .. just reading in on this thread.. It is indisputable in my view that women are opressed globally within religious structures full stop.. It seems to me the men who felt socially impotent and their own need to try to contain women (and their obviously terrifying creative power in owning a womb), have projected their own feelings of fear and inadequacy into the female gender in the religious 'teachings' all over the shop... it seems clear to me that women are far too powerful and therefore have eternally been undermined and contained by these insecure and fearful men (not God ) with the handing down over the centuries of very stubborn memes.. (ideologies .. ) and like a sturdy gene these destructive memes which authorise the disepowerment of women are rife.. and continue to inform the treatment of women in all religions and society it seems.. I am a woman and I think if women were not so creative by design (as are men truly and equally), smaller-feeling men would not need to claim the creation of the universe for example and all the 'teachings' or man-made rules that went with claiming that particular creative crown so to speak......
AA Great post-couldn´t agree more-of course men and women are equal and organised religious institutions that preach anything different are talking unevolved,bigotted,insecure,misogynistic nonsense.
Cheers Karl
The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age:the guilt must of necessity live too.You are the devil’s gateway:you are the unsealer of that (forbidden) tree:you are the first deserter of the divine law:you are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack.You destroyed so easily God’s image,man.On account of your desert—that is,death—even the Son of God had to die.
www.ccel.org...
This statement was made some time around 202AD,and it prevailed as a main focal point for centuries.From the 18th century onwards it is mentioned,but only quietly.
This view of women was not that of just a few fundamentalists types,it was the view of the vast majority of Christians.
Eve was/is seen as "the lance of the demon","the road of iniquity","the sting of the scorpion","a daughter of falsehood","the sentinel of Hell","the enemy of peace" and "of the wild beast,the most dangerous." This attitude was/is reflected on all women by those who believe in the Original Sin.
St Thomas Aquinas once said,
"As regards the individual nature,woman is defective and misbegotten,for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex;while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition,or even from some external influence."
For those who have mentioned feminism it must be remembered that there is more than one kind.I dislike the more radical types because i believe that they actually make it harder for women.
I also think women,and men,should look back to the 19th century when the '1st' womans movement started with the Suffragettes.You will learn that it all comes down to this;The Right To Choose.
As an individual you have the right to choose to vote,to have kids,to own property,to go to work,to wear what you want etc etc.
Every individual,regardless of race or gender,is entitled to basic human rights and dignity.
...I want to say to you who think women cannot succeed,we have brought the government of England to this position,that it has to face this alternative:either women are to be killed or women are to have the vote.
Emmeline Pankhurst.
...Men make the moral code and they expect women to accept it. They have decided that it is entirely right and proper for men to fight for their liberties and their rights, but that it is not right and proper for women to fight for theirs...
Matilda Josyln Gage.
"...we declare our faith in the principles of self-government;our full equality with man in natural rights;that woman was made first for her own happiness,with the absolute right to herself-to all the opportunities and advantages life affords for her complete development;and we deny that dogma of the centuries,incorporated in the codes of nations-that woman was made for man-her best interests,in all cases,to be sacrificed to his will.We ask of our rulers,at this hour,no special favors,no special privileges,no special legislation.We ask justice,we ask equality,we ask that all the civil and political rights that belong to citizens of the United States,be guaranteed to us and our daughters forever."
[edit on 5-10-2008 by jakyll]
reply to post by JPhish
Are you talking body strength etc?
Coz,obviously we have different types of body strengths.
But the rest....well,the human brain is sexless,ability is sexless,endurance is sexless....
To be equal would imply that they are the same as men. It's apparently obvious they are not.
Are you talking body strength etc?
Coz,obviously we have different types of body strengths.
But the rest....well,the human brain is sexless,ability is sexless,endurance is sexless....
reply to post by RUFFREADY
Its a myth that women could run the world better.
Why?
Because we are human.
It is our humanness that leads us to war,corruption,greed etc,not our sexuality.
And also I think women could run the world much better , than the past and current ass-clowns have been running things.
Its a myth that women could run the world better.
Why?
Because we are human.
It is our humanness that leads us to war,corruption,greed etc,not our sexuality.
reply to post by orangetom1999
The causes of the Industrial Revolution were the end of feudalism,the Enclosure movement and new innovations.Religion doesn't even come into it.
And,increased standard of living,are you kidding me!?!
The Industrial Revolution helped the middle and upper classes get even richer but the working class lived in abject poverty.
MADNESS.
Sorry for the off topic post,but i'm a history nerd and it bugs me when people get the facts wrong.Especially when it indirectly involves my hometown,Manchester,better known as "Cottonopolis" during the Industrial Revolution.
that it was religion and the breaking away from Rome...which caused the industrial revolution...and which was to go on to make some Western Nations and their peoples more productive and able to reap the benifits of thier labors...yes?? This increased the standard of living across the board...for certain nations...Northern Germany ...the Lowland countrys and England. Eventually this standard of living spread to the Americas.
The causes of the Industrial Revolution were the end of feudalism,the Enclosure movement and new innovations.Religion doesn't even come into it.
And,increased standard of living,are you kidding me!?!
The Industrial Revolution helped the middle and upper classes get even richer but the working class lived in abject poverty.
MADNESS.
Sorry for the off topic post,but i'm a history nerd and it bugs me when people get the facts wrong.Especially when it indirectly involves my hometown,Manchester,better known as "Cottonopolis" during the Industrial Revolution.
reply to post by jakyll
jakyll,
Tell me your joking here in this?? Feudalism in the western world ended with Charles the 1st and the loss of his head in 1649 by the Puritans and Oliver Cromwell. This in England went on to end Divine Right of Kings. Divine Right of Kings is the essence of feudalism.
It was more than a hundred years later before the French broke this yoke with their bloody man made revolution and butchery.
Nonetheless..it was the precedent of a people turning against their king and the end of Divine right of Kings which laid the groundwork and justification for our Revolution here in America. When a King has broken the Law..do a people have a right to turn against their King. The answer and precedent set by the Puritans and Cromwell...is yes!! Our founders here in America knew this history and applied this rationale here.
Divine Right of Kings is in fact religious in origins. The Kings Crown was put on their heads with the approval and blessing of the religious authority..their power therefore was from God..absolute.
This is a very covered up truism and knowledge not desired for the bulk of peoples to know or be educated upon today..for in this knowledge is the basis for revolution. Governments do not want their people educated in this.
When the kings were restored...the system returned back to the olde feudal traditions. Hence the problems in the UK.
Socialism is feudalism in a different form. Governments use it to gain power and authority over their people under the guise of being benevolent rulers/leaders. Socialism has a bad habit of eating up its seed corn over time. Not enough left to plant or invest for next year.
Many are attempting to bring the USA under the same umbrella in thinking and government as you folks have in the UK ..with the same results.
Here in the USA the middle class is the working class. I don't know what you are describing..unless the middle class has gone backwards in the UK. It has not worked out that way here. Here in the USA even poor people live better than most in the world and even in the UK.
I don't particularly like the terms middle class..working classes..etc ..these are all terms used to divide a people. They strongly hint at an entitlement mentality....which is exactly what certain political parties are attempting to do and encourage here in the USA for the purpose of political power. They are dividers ..not uniters.
We have a big union here.Steelworkers....who use the same strategy Good cop bad cop..good guys bad guys. Ive seen this going on long enough to get a finger on the pulse and they keep using the same technique while nothing changes. I have concluded that they are no different than our politicians and political parties. Same fingerprint..divide and conquer. It was the Steelworkers Union that taught me to apply this fingerprint to the body politic and realize that the politicians are using the same template of fear and confusion to keep us on the treadmill.
One more thing to conclude....it is this same whorish body politic which finances our public educations...using the same template ..as the unions to get us resentful and afraid of as much as we can in order to keep us on the treadmill...their treadmill.
By the way..I think you have it correct here.
It is a rare leader indeed which does not succumb to human corruption. Most of them don't last long...they are killed or discredited for not playing ball with and for the corrupt. Gladstone and others..Benjamin Disraeli gave strong hints of this in their writings.
However...if you know about occult practices/religions..sexuality is one road heavily practiced and cultivated..to get a politician compromised and to be a puppet.
For some reason this brings to mind a woman named Christine Keeler and the British Government in the 1960s or earlier. I might have the dates incorrect here but the name rings a bell.
The basics of this Keeler template seem wont to repeat themselves from time to time in different governments.
In these cases humanness and sexuality are inseparable
Thanks,
Orangetom
[edit on 5-10-2008 by orangetom1999]
The causes of the Industrial Revolution were the end of feudalism,the Enclosure movement and new innovations.Religion doesn't even come into it.
And,increased standard of living,are you kidding me!?!
The Industrial Revolution helped the middle and upper classes get even richer but the working class lived in abject poverty.
jakyll,
Tell me your joking here in this?? Feudalism in the western world ended with Charles the 1st and the loss of his head in 1649 by the Puritans and Oliver Cromwell. This in England went on to end Divine Right of Kings. Divine Right of Kings is the essence of feudalism.
It was more than a hundred years later before the French broke this yoke with their bloody man made revolution and butchery.
Nonetheless..it was the precedent of a people turning against their king and the end of Divine right of Kings which laid the groundwork and justification for our Revolution here in America. When a King has broken the Law..do a people have a right to turn against their King. The answer and precedent set by the Puritans and Cromwell...is yes!! Our founders here in America knew this history and applied this rationale here.
Divine Right of Kings is in fact religious in origins. The Kings Crown was put on their heads with the approval and blessing of the religious authority..their power therefore was from God..absolute.
This is a very covered up truism and knowledge not desired for the bulk of peoples to know or be educated upon today..for in this knowledge is the basis for revolution. Governments do not want their people educated in this.
When the kings were restored...the system returned back to the olde feudal traditions. Hence the problems in the UK.
Socialism is feudalism in a different form. Governments use it to gain power and authority over their people under the guise of being benevolent rulers/leaders. Socialism has a bad habit of eating up its seed corn over time. Not enough left to plant or invest for next year.
Many are attempting to bring the USA under the same umbrella in thinking and government as you folks have in the UK ..with the same results.
Here in the USA the middle class is the working class. I don't know what you are describing..unless the middle class has gone backwards in the UK. It has not worked out that way here. Here in the USA even poor people live better than most in the world and even in the UK.
I don't particularly like the terms middle class..working classes..etc ..these are all terms used to divide a people. They strongly hint at an entitlement mentality....which is exactly what certain political parties are attempting to do and encourage here in the USA for the purpose of political power. They are dividers ..not uniters.
We have a big union here.Steelworkers....who use the same strategy Good cop bad cop..good guys bad guys. Ive seen this going on long enough to get a finger on the pulse and they keep using the same technique while nothing changes. I have concluded that they are no different than our politicians and political parties. Same fingerprint..divide and conquer. It was the Steelworkers Union that taught me to apply this fingerprint to the body politic and realize that the politicians are using the same template of fear and confusion to keep us on the treadmill.
One more thing to conclude....it is this same whorish body politic which finances our public educations...using the same template ..as the unions to get us resentful and afraid of as much as we can in order to keep us on the treadmill...their treadmill.
By the way..I think you have it correct here.
Its a myth that women could run the world better.
Why?
Because we are human.
It is our humanness that leads us to war,corruption,greed etc,not our sexuality.
It is a rare leader indeed which does not succumb to human corruption. Most of them don't last long...they are killed or discredited for not playing ball with and for the corrupt. Gladstone and others..Benjamin Disraeli gave strong hints of this in their writings.
However...if you know about occult practices/religions..sexuality is one road heavily practiced and cultivated..to get a politician compromised and to be a puppet.
For some reason this brings to mind a woman named Christine Keeler and the British Government in the 1960s or earlier. I might have the dates incorrect here but the name rings a bell.
The basics of this Keeler template seem wont to repeat themselves from time to time in different governments.
In these cases humanness and sexuality are inseparable
Thanks,
Orangetom
[edit on 5-10-2008 by orangetom1999]
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