Max Hardcore found guilty in obscenity trial

Hmm... So from reading this thread, I gather that this guy, Max Hardore (LOL @ his name) is being punished for making jack-off movies (does jack-off violate the T&C on here?) about raping little girls, which in turn probably contributes to the growing child rape stuff going on.
Hmm... So when does freedom of spech cross the line of line from good to bad? I think if it hurts someone, then it's bad, what ever kinda porn (never even heard of the guy till now) this guy is making is obviously hurting someone in some way right? I mean porn kinda numbs the mind and overall is;nt good for ya (speaking from my personal experience with it).

It's like this, porn is like a bad drug, you want more and more of it and you get tired of the same old high so you search for something new. For me I started out on beginner porn, and the last thing that really made me take a step back and look at what I was acually watching was some of hat bondage stuff, I looked and realized that I was the one in bondage, my mind and spirit were dying because of it. Porn is a hard habit to break, but it's worth breaking.

-Jimmy

To psyops, deadline & others defending this guy:
We really do not know if he is a pedophile. If so, that hasn't been discovered, but it does look like he has a predeliction in that direction, so would not be surprized.
So you defenders of this would be OK if you saw your 18 YO daughter on one of his films?

deadline says: "My last girlfriend was 18 and still had her catholic school girl uniform. Guess what, she looked damn sexy in it too. Does that make me a pedophile? "
***Depends on how old you were. 18YO can look very immature. When I was 18 I looked 15.
deadline: "Also, you said re-enactment of brutal rape, that is a FAR ways away from real rape. Actually, this isnt that far away from the couples who tie their partners up and such, pull hair, and enjoy rough sex."

***What these degenerates do in private is their concern. It is when they publish it that it crosses the line, and pollutes society. Only humans kill for the sake of killing; torture for the sake of torture. Only humans cultivate their dark side. Sorry thing is that it is infectious. It is difficult to raise the human mind to a state of living on the positive side of goodness, kindness & compassion.

What exactly is the difference between "re-enactment" and the real thing? I used the word as a "giving the benefit of the doubt" expression. From what I understand it is close enough to the real thing. Why are you defending this? You & the others must really get you jollies when you see those kids in war zones getting blown to pieces.

If you like Max's pedophile immitating films perhaps you can enlighten me on just what is Sexy about a child?

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Well as someone has pointed out, the Supreme Court agreed with you in the Ashcroft decision. I disagree with it, but it is what it is.

I knew what you meant by "legal age" but not every state is it 18. Marriage laws in many states have different ages for different circumstances with parental consent.

I'm talking about the importation of "legally" made crap.

But, since you brought it up, what about the girl who is legally married, in this Country, who is 15 and makes a porno with her husband?
Now where do you draw the line?

What if she is 15 or even 16 but looks 8 or 9 years old?

So now you have a legally married couple, with an amancipated adult, who looks 9rs old, making a porn.

Is some one here willing to say..."cool with me" on this one?

I believe that no matter what age you are married at, that it is illegal to appear naked in a video until the age of 18. If I am wrong, I stand corrected, but as of right now I am pretty sure that is the case.

As for what you said about someone looking younger, if the person is over 18 and looks like she is 12, she is still over the legal age and any attempts to censor her would be seen as discrimination in my opinion. That would be like saying that legal aged midgets are not allowed to appear in pornography because they look much younger.

I actually have a friend that just turned 21, yet is 4 ft 4 inches tall, less then 100 lbs and is a exotic dancer, she looks extremely young but since she is of age there is nothiing illegal about it. Same applies to this guys videos and I see no reason why he should be prosecuted for someone appearing to be young.

reply to post by Res Ipsa


You can't base laws around "ifs". That's why laws are broad and interpreted by case.

So you can what if this and what if that but it's really irrelevant to the case.

What did he do that was illegal?

[edit on 8-6-2008 by Sublime620]

I was trying to make that point with Jackinthebox a handful of posts ago.
There was an argument on whether it is any business of anyone's what other people watch at home and that one argument was that it would actually prevent some perv. from acting out.
I of course take the complete opposite view on that, and it leads to action in fact. They need to take it to the next level to get the same thrill.

I tried to make the argument also that having 10 yrs experience working with sexual psychopathic personalities, or course including pedophiles, that I have better than just an opinion on the matter. But as you can see we have not reached any type of agreement on the censorship or regulating appropriateness of certain types of porn.

Especially disturbing to me is that "legal" aged women that portray little girls, is cool with a lot of people here. They obviously do not agree with your or my opinion on the secondary effects.

Originally posted by OhZone
To psyops, deadline & others defending this guy:
We really do not know if he is a pedophile. If so, that hasn't been discovered, but it does look like he has a predeliction in that direction, so would not be surprized.
So you defenders of this would be OK if you saw your 18 YO daughter on one of his films?

deadline says: "My last girlfriend was 18 and still had her catholic school girl uniform. Guess what, she looked damn sexy in it too. Does that make me a pedophile? "
***Depends on how old you were. 18YO can look very immature. When I was 18 I looked 15.
deadline: "Also, you said re-enactment of brutal rape, that is a FAR ways away from real rape. Actually, this isnt that far away from the couples who tie their partners up and such, pull hair, and enjoy rough sex."

***What these degenerates do in private is their concern. It is when they publish it that it crosses the line, and pollutes society. Only humans kill for the sake of killing; torture for the sake of torture. Only humans cultivate their dark side. Sorry thing is that it is infectious. It is difficult to raise the human mind to a state of living on the positive side of goodness, kindness & compassion.

What exactly is the difference between "re-enactment" and the real thing? I used the word as a "giving the benefit of the doubt" expression. From what I understand it is close enough to the real thing. Why are you defending this? You & the others must really get you jollies when you see those kids in war zones getting blown to pieces.

If you like Max's pedophile immitating films perhaps you can enlighten me on just what is Sexy about a child?

I actually never even heard of the guy until this thread, which in my opinion could be the worst thing the news could do because this is only going to net this guy more money.

As for your first question, what is the difference between re-enactment and the real thing? Consent, getting paid for it, some of these people may actually even enjoy it, who knows. Again, I go back to the rape scene in the Hills Have Eyes, anyone who has seen it will agree that it is one of the most vile, disgusting, and obscene rape scenes I have ever seen in a movie. What makes it worse is the person is portrayed as someone underage as well.

Second question, about his films and what is sexy about a child? Nothing at all is sexy about a child. These people are NOT children. Just because they may look younger does not mean that they are not entitled to the same occupation as someone who may look older. Again, if I was one of these models and I lost my job because they said I "looked too young" to be in a adult video, I would be suing the hell out of them for discrimination.

I have no desire to watch his videos, but if there is nothing illegal that he is doing I do not see what is wrong.

Edit: And how does this even relate to people being blown to peices in a war zone? Unless you are talking about re-enactments of killing people in a war zone in a video game, then yes, I as well as most of the country enjoy it quite a bit.

[edit on 8-6-2008 by deadline527]

For you who enjoy looking at this sort of thing, that is the problem. Why do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy the brutality? Do you fantasize about rapeing young girls? You see, it is this side your mind that I am trying to explore. Someone mentioned that they enjoy the dominance. And in reference to young girls too. Now that is part of the problem. Why do you males enjoy dominating women? And to the point of brutality. That is why we have battered women. Do you have to do this to prove that you are strong? Does it pump up your ego or what?
Legal - illegal does not matter. Laws are often unjust and illogical. Max;s porn is inhumane. It is the ultimate expression of male hatred/fear of women. Torture them, rape them, make them suffer. And we wonder why wars never end.
The male human has dominated the world since the beginning that we know of. Isn't it a sad commentary on your dominance that women have been put into positions where the ,only way they can, or ever could make a living is to submit themselves sexualy one way or another to your whims?
As to the constitution protecting scumbags; how about something to protect the dignity of women? It is men thruout history who have put women in this position. The did not originally volunteer. Why did you do this? Why do you keep on doing it?

Jmanfive, so you think this is about religion regulating sex. Humans need to learn to regulate their own sexual activities. Becoming addicted to it and requiring more and more stimulation to the extent of inflicting pain, to be satisfied if a serious problem. Rampant porn is about desensitiation. Do we wonder about why marriages don't last?

What exactly would happen if tomorrow there were no more porn of any kind available. Would all males go on a raping rampage? Or would you get a life and make our world a bettter place?

No, I'm not religious;; I am atheist. .

Yeah, Sublime, most of that post was not specific to Max. But if you read my "Capone" reference than you would see that I believe the gov. got him on something other than the "porn" per se.

But, since you brought it up, you seem to imply that laws are made broad on purpose. Completely wrong. Thats why they are so hard to understand sometimes because they are trying to make it as specific as possible. The laws that get nailed the most by the Supreme Court are the ones that are "overbroad" They hate over and under inclusive laws as well.

I'm not even sure I gave you a "what if" scenerio. I suppose I could take time and search on Westlaw or Nexus Lexis to find out for you, but maybe I will save that for my very own thread.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I was trying to make that point with Jackinthebox a handful of posts ago.
There was an argument on whether it is any business of anyone's what other people watch at home and that one argument was that it would actually prevent some perv. from acting out.
I of course take the complete opposite view on that, and it leads to action in fact. They need to take it to the next level to get the same thrill.

I tried to make the argument also that having 10 yrs experience working with sexual psychopathic personalities, or course including pedophiles, that I have better than just an opinion on the matter. But as you can see we have not reached any type of agreement on the censorship or regulating appropriateness of certain types of porn.

Especially disturbing to me is that "legal" aged women that portray little girls, is cool with a lot of people here. They obviously do not agree with your or my opinion on the secondary effects.

Its not the fact that I am cool with these women acting like they are little girls, its that he is being prosecuted, or tried to be, for something that is not illegal. These are not children, and there are quite a bit of people who would rather see an 18 year old that looks younger, instead of older. I cant even type the word teen on google without having my content filter on, and that should say enough right there. This guy is marketing to a huge group of people legally.

I do not condone his actions, but I see nothing illegal with it either.

Originally posted by OhZone

For you who enjoy looking at this sort of thing, that is the problem. Why do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy the brutality? Do you fantasize about rapeing young girls? You see, it is this side your mind that I am trying to explore. Someone mentioned that they enjoy the dominance. And in reference to young girls too. Now that is part of the problem. Why do you males enjoy dominating women? And to the point of brutality. That is why we have battered women. Do you have to do this to prove that you are strong? Does it pump up your ego or what?
Legal - illegal does not matter. Laws are often unjust and illogical. Max;s porn is inhumane. It is the ultimate expression of male hatred/fear of women. Torture them, rape them, make them suffer. And we wonder why wars never end.
The male human has dominated the world since the beginning that we know of. Isn't it a sad commentary on your dominance that women have been put into positions where the ,only way they can, or ever could make a living is to submit themselves sexualy one way or another to your whims?
As to the constitution protecting scumbags; how about something to protect the dignity of women? It is men thruout history who have put women in this position. The did not originally volunteer. Why did you do this? Why do you keep on doing it?

Jmanfive, so you think this is about religion regulating sex. Humans need to learn to regulate their own sexual activities. Becoming addicted to it and requiring more and more stimulation to the extent of inflicting pain, to be satisfied if a serious problem. Rampant porn is about desensitiation. Do we wonder about why marriages don't last?

What exactly would happen if tomorrow there were no more porn of any kind available. Would all males go on a raping rampage? Or would you get a life and make our world a bettter place?

No, I'm not religious;; I am atheist. .

I actually think the world WOULD be a better place without porn, and I totally agree with what you said. As for the constitution protecting these people, sadly it is the women who are volunteering for these positions. These pornography producers barely have to try to find young women who will pretty much engage in "legal prostitution" in my eyes. I think society as a whole has really hit the fan but what can we do short of prohibition of pornography?

Its a vile, disgusting world and even if we were to get rid of pornography, it would not change a thing. Humans throughout history have always had slaves, prostitutes, and so on - and it was only recently in the last hundred years that this was changed, and only in some countries. Something so ingraned into our evolution as a society is extremely hard to change no matter how backwards and distorted it may be.

As long as there is poverty, there will always be people selling their bodies for money. And as long as there is prostitution, there will always be people who take advantage of these poor souls.

[edit on 8-6-2008 by deadline527]

Ohzone,
I am probably as much to blame as you, but you are getting so far off topic that it really should be a thread of its own, if it isn't already.
...
ok, who died and made me mod.
I'm just sayin.

"....there are quite a bit of people who would rather see an 18 year old that looks younger, instead of older."

****So....!! guys do enjoy watching pedophelia,,,!

This is so sad. What do they find sexy about it? Doesn't matter that they are in fact older. They are portraying children and men enjoy this!
Are many men in fact closet pedophiles?

Deadline,
he didn't get busted for that. (Ashcroft decision says its legal for 18yr old to be portrayed as younger)

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Ohzone,
I am probably as much to blame as you, but you are getting so far off topic that it really should be a thread of its own, if it isn't already.
...
ok, who died and made me mod.

I'm just sayin.

you know you are a closet mod Res, lol.

I actually enjoy the threads you partake in because its always a good debate. People think just because I am taking the side of the law that I am supporting this guys actions. I am not. I am merely stating what I see as someone capitilizing on a obscene market that while may be borderline, is not illegal. If they cared so much about this type of pornography, which I am sure he is not the only person in the world to produce, they would pass a law barring the ability to market and sell such content.

Originally posted by OhZone
"....there are quite a bit of people who would rather see an 18 year old that looks younger, instead of older."

****So....!! guys do enjoy watching pedophelia,,,!

This is so sad. What do they find sexy about it? Doesn't matter that they are in fact older. They are portraying children and men enjoy this!
Are many men in fact closet pedophiles?

No, actually. Because its not pedophilia if someone is over 18. Actually, the age of consent in most states is 16 but thats besides the fact. Just because someone looks younger does not make them younger.

Know what I find sexy about a lady? Their intellect and personality. My girlfriend is 18 and she may not have the biggest cans, nor the badonkadonk butt, but she is an amazing person and I wouldent trade her for the world.

[edit on 8-6-2008 by deadline527]

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Deadline,
he didn't get busted for that. (Ashcroft decision says its legal for 18yr old to be portrayed as younger)

That doesnt suprise me with how many of these politicians are caught in child sex rings and such. He may not be into that sort of thing, but I am sure at least a few of his buddies are. Its sad to see that these people get away with the most horrific acts in the world because they are in a position of power, but that is for another time.

So what? There's no law against being sick and having freaky fetishes. There's no law against porn that is almost rape.

DUH

Yes there damn well is a law against it and that is why he was found guilty.

A study conducted by Dr. Reo Christensen of Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, found that pornography leaves the impression with its viewers that sex has no relationship to privacy; that it is unrelated to love, commitment or marriage; that bizarre forms of sex are the most gratifying; that sex with animals has an especially desirable flavor; and that irresponsible sex has no adverse consequences.

In addition, in a series of studies, researchers observed numerous persistent changes in perceptions concerning sexuality and sexual behavior after repeated exposing (i.e., six 1-hours weekly sessions) volunteers to pornography. These include the trivialization of rape as a criminal offense, exaggerated perceptions of the prevalence of most sexual practices, increased callousness toward female sexuality and concerns, dissatisfaction with sexual relationships and diminished caring for and trust in intimate partners.

NCPCF in Action Special Report, July 1997.

Before he was executed for multiple murders serial killer Ted Bundy confessed that addiction to pornography fueled his violent behavior.

Internet Porn: Worse Than Crack?

Internet pornography is the new crack coc aine, leading to addiction, misogyny, pedophilia, boob jobs and erectile dysfunction, according to clinicians and researchers testifying before a Senate committee Thursday.

Witnesses before the Senate Commerce Committee's Science, Technology and Space Subcommittee spared no superlative in their description of the negative effects of pornography.

Mary Anne Layden, co-director of the Sexual Trauma and Psychopathology Program at the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Cognitive Therapy, called porn the "most concerning thing to psychological health that I know of existing today."

www.wired.com...

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Very good reads Bigwhammy. Although, I think without pornography that study would still ring true due to the way society has become. If you aren't physically beautiful then you are not beautiful at all has become the mentality, which could not be further from the truth. Just look at the way people in middle schools are acting any more, where oral sex is common place and not looked at as "sex", and teenage pregnancy is no longer a rare occurance.

I blame the media, and its glorification of sex, physical beauty, and material wealth.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
ok Im offended when you guys say that pornography is better than religion. thats so wrong. im just gonna leave this thread. and sick stuff like that shouldnt exist and porn producers all try to up the ante when it comes to sick stuff and just like consumerism people will get whatever is what there. its not that people ask for it.

1. More evil things have been done in the name of religion then in the name of porn.

2. The porn industry caters to their customers. If they made content that customers didn't want, they would go out of business.

3. You're missing the point entirely. It's about freedom of speech and expression, not about pornography or religion.

reply to jackinthebox

this isnt a post attacking you, as i do have respect for you as ive read several other posts of yours in the past


honestly to me it doesnt matter who believes me or not...i know where i went to school, i know where i got screwed into over 100 grand in student loans and still didnt graduate but thats off topic and neither here nor there... i also only said i dated her breifly, i wouldnt go as far to say she was ever my girlfreind and that was over 3 years ago closer to the time when i 1st moved to southern california, she actually does work with several big name actresses at the moment and no she hasnt done anal, on camera yet but thats neither here nor there either cuz shes not my girlfreind nothing she does affects me in the least bit.

you talk about how big porn is and how unintelligent it is for me to use the word majority, but the truth is the majority of porn is low budget swine infested trash who provide the drugs themselves for the majority of their actressess

unfortunately due to lack of regulations and rules there are much fewer high quality professional companies, but dont get me wrong, im DEFINETLY not saying theres no drugs and abuse in mainstream porn either cuz there is its just even further behind the scenes, not on set but more involved during the contract signings


yea i cant provide you with links and no im not gonna give names and phone numbers of people in the industry so anyone can ask them for themselves
however its not hard to get into that industry

all im wondering is you make claims that you understand what goes on behind the scenes and you try to defend max hardcore with the freedom of speech guilty until proven innocent, unfortunately those days are gone just look around you, its nice to think its not that way but you have to open up your eyes, and if its not like that where u are please let me know where you are ill be moving instantly because cops and life in the united states are going downhill quickly and people like max hardcore are just poisoning the brains of the youth, and yea I am a youth (in my early 20's)


have you ever been behind the scenes? have you ever been on any set?
i mean even in hollywood in main stream films actresses and even actors are sometimes victimized, if you like max hardcore films great for you, but yea ill be honest, people like that will never be babysitting my kids if i ever have any
so many people bitch and moan about games like gta4 etc etc so you ban games like that then the kids go online watch max hardcore because everyone of us knows that kids old enough to know how to use a keyboard and mouse can access max hardcore products, then when theyre done because they are as impressionable as they are, they think its cool to shove their d*** down a girls ass while their punching them in the face. thats really the kinda stuff you wanna defend? you should be a lawyer

all i ask is anyone who tries to make a argument for this guy well, before you waste your time, actually go to a porn set..its not hard they're always looking for someone to set up a light or push a dolly or run stingers its not hard..spend one day on a low budget set and more than likely you'll meet someone just like max hardcore or at least get a understanding of why it is ive made the statements ive made