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Mexico asks World Court to block executions in U.S.

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posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by Azathoth
 


I agree with you up to the point where the laws are in compliance with the global precepts of Human Rights. If a nation state passes laws that violate human rights, I would draw the parallel to the example in your post and arguer they have partially given up their rights to sovereignty.




posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


Assume that you are right, but answer the question anyway. If the US fails to operate in compliance with Human Rights precepts, does it surrender its sovereignty in that regard?

Would the rest of the world not then have an obligation to compel the US by force if necessary to bring itself into compliance?



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


Assume that you are right, but answer the question anyway. If the US fails to operate in compliance with Human Rights precepts, does it surrender its sovereignty in that regard?

Would the rest of the world not then have an obligation to compel the US by force if necessary to bring it into compliance?



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by wytworm
 


If a nation undertakes policies such as ethnic cleansing, the the world has a duty to step in and make them stop. Many times that includes regime change.

But laws to deal with criminals are not in that same category. Iran, for example, hangs homosexuals and suspends their bodies on light poles in the middle of the city. Yet the world turns a blind eye to that; indeed, Ahmadinejad receives much praise and support right here on ATS.

At any rate, a nation should not automatically lose sovereignty. They should be given a chance to make changes. But after repeated refusals and ignoring of resolutions (like Saddam) then the world has a duty to step in.

[edit on 7-6-2008 by jsobecky]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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I don't like the death penalty on cases that are dubious, but if the death happen and is proving without reasonable doubt I go with an eye for an eye.

I feel that Mexico has not jurisdiction and neither the world court on matters of murder cases in our soil.

It doesn't matter if the killer is Mexican, puertorrican or whatever other countries, if he kills in America he should be judged in America.

Now my opinion on what is going on with other issues that our government have with retaining citizens from other countries because if feels it has the right to so even if not been judged guilty, do not apply on this type of cases.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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I wonder how the SPP and the NAU come into play here. I understand what everyone is saying about national sovereignty, but after Bush signed the agreement, we lost that.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by Quarantine
 


The Mexican government complaining of the lack of "justice" in the USA is really rich.

So many U.S. Americans and Canadians have suffered extraordinarily even to the point of death under the protective care of Mexican justice.

I would love to see Mexico invaded by the USA. Yes, I was opposed to the Afghan and Iraqi invasions, but if the USA ever had reason to invade another country it is definitely Mexico.

But then Mexico has already invaded the USA, and after all they have their man as President -- Jorge W. Bush.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


So it sounds like we are on the same page apart from matters of degree. I would underline that there are no differences between criminals and non-criminals though. Unless you are saying criminals cease to be human.

In terms of your Saddam example, say it were reversed, the world court issued a Human Rights bill that forbad capital punishment, then we as humans that live in the US should support the imposition of whatever sanctions they impose, up to and including invasion and occupation should the abuses be maintained.

[edit on 7-6-2008 by wytworm]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by wytworm
 



He didn't say that...I DID, and I believe its true..MURDERERS ARE LESS THAN HUMAN IF ITS PREMEDITATED! PERIOD, END OF MY DISCUSSION! The only caviat to my point of view is, if its a family member taking out a murderer of a family member because the courts have failed them. To me thats pure justice, and I don't care what your thoughts are on it.

Zindo



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by Quarantine


This is un-jusice! If an American goes to Mexico and steals a packet of hot sauce, they're locked away and forgotten about. If an American goes to Mexico and kills someone, you can bet money that you're not going to have our government step in and stop your execution. If a Mexican commits a crime in the United States they deserve the exact same treatment that an American gets for commiting the same crime. This is sickening!

ap.google.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


We don't need International Courts making Law to try to force the US into submission on legal issues from a country who's HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS are among the worst in the world.

The Law should be AN EYE for AN EYE ! If one of their citizens comes to our country and breaks our laws, they should be fully subject to them PERIOD !!!



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by wytworm
 

He didn't say that...I DID, and I believe its true..MURDERERS ARE LESS THAN HUMAN IF ITS PREMEDITATED! PERIOD, END OF MY DISCUSSION! The only caviat to my point of view is, if its a family member taking out a murderer of a family member because the courts have failed them. To me thats pure justice, and I don't care what your thoughts are on it.


Its caveat. Or caviar. Not sure which way you were going.

How do you feel about treason, espionage, and crimes under military jurisdiction? They all retain the death penalty as well.

Your attitude on dynamically demoting murderers from being human is thankfully not the common view, and certainly not in keeping with the concept of inalienable rights as set out in the Declaration of Independence:


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:


Article 3.
Everyone has the right to live, have liberty, and security of person.

Article 6.
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.


How does that jibe with your support for Human Rights?



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Quarantine
 


Next time a British schoolteacher faces execution by stone-throwing mob in Sudan for naming a teddy bear, I fully expect you to be right there defending the rights of the Sudanese to pummel her with stones until she's dead.

After all, you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, would you?



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by All-Natural

Originally posted by Baxtoriafall
LOL wow, Mexico needs to shut up, lol trying to tell another country what to do what idiots.


It's what the U.S had been doing since they became "World Police." They are talking about Mexican citizens in the U.S being executed IN the U.S. I think it is sickening. U.S is the one that has to shut up... all they have done is ---- up everything in the world...


Love and Light



LOL, here is the question then, why are these Mexican citizens inside the U.S.A. constantly committing crimes? Do you not think that would get tiring for a country after a while continuously deporting every single trouble maker form Mexico? So if a family who gets their child molested by an illegal Mexican immigrant (which has happened) I think if he goes to jail then it is not sickening but the RIGHT THING TO DO. I still say Mexico needs to shut up, and please do not start the comment that America has messed up everything in the world because America is used as a scapegoat for the worlds problems because it is the only superpower, if someone wanted to they could find a whole inventory of things other countries have done to mess up regions of the world.

Good day ol chap!



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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Mexico! You have got to be kidding!

If you want a peek at a truly violent culture, go to Southern Mexico, leave the Tourist area and go to some of the villages. If you are a Gringo and you survive, you will get a taste of what a truly violent culture is.

They put their prisoners in pits in the ground with bars covering the top and treat them like animals. They have a lot of nerve criticizing anybody. This must be meant for the consumption of people who have never been there, who don't know any better.

If any of you do go there, make sure you have ample bribe money and that your relatives have the money to pay if you are Kidnapped


Edited to add: Why do you think millions of Mexicans risk life and limb to illegally enter the US?

[edit on 6/7/2008 by Blaine91555]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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All this arguing, over what !?!?!?!?!?

If Mexico wants to keep sending people over here, they cannot possibly be surprised or offended when they find out what happens to them.

They cared about said people so little that they shoved 'em up here, the US should do what it wants with such people. Just like it does to its' own citizens.

I'd say Mexico lost control of what happens to its' people as soon as they crossed the border.


EDIT to add: SERIOUSLY, you think I am kidding? If ANY other country in the world gets so BLATANTLY invaded, their army will fight back.
EDIT: typo

[edit on 7-6-2008 by LostNemesis]



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