Europeans View America as a 'Force For Evil' Under Bush

THe twin towers didn't go down because of hate. That is just the story they are selling. It was planned and carried out by the crooks in washington!

I cannot understand how many of the posters on this site get angry because the OP has lifted an issue mentioned in "The News" or "A News Paper said".. Everybody knows News Papers talk #.. # sells.

The "media" is renowned for filling our heads full of crap. In times of conflict it's happily known as propaganda. But during times of peace it's regarded as "news".

Unless it comes marching up my street and knocks on my front door, anything that "World News" is saying will be ignored.. Because it's bull#.

Most of the posters on this site bring nothing new. They are mainley paraphrasing, at least or just reitterating a comment.

America is a nation of many peoples. Most of those peoples are immigrant.
However it's Power comes from a system that is widley regarged as good, if not flawed, democracy.

Democracy allows anyone, with funding at least, to try for power...

Ok, so Americans aren't stupid, I understand that......So who voted for Bush?....

We are all human, we make mistakes, we learm from those mistakes and we grow..

To view America as a "Force for Evil" is to view the rest of the planet in the same regard..

I am European.

There is a lot of anti-Americanism right now in Europe, for the following reasons, in no particular order:

1) Support for Israel. The USA is Israel's facade. The Jews are not that welcomed in Europe.

2) Double standards. Myanmar has a dictatorship, you do nothing. Turkey has invaded Cyprus, you do nothing. You only care about the oil.

3) extreme capitalism reaching Europe, creating very high prices in food. This type of capitalism comes from the USA.

4) constant bombardment with negative stereotypes through movies and music, imported from the USA.

5) you lied in the case of Saddam's WMDs.

6) you dismantled Yugoslavia.

7) You supported dictatorships in the past.

8) CIA sells drugs (and buys guns).

9) you want the UN to be dismantled.

10) you have Guantanamo and you don't recognize the international court of justice.

Europeans would respect USA more if they approached the rest of the world not as slaves, but as equals. That's the heart of the problem...

Originally posted by masterp
I am European.

There is a lot of anti-Americanism right now in Europe, for the following reasons, in no particular order:

1) Support for Israel. The USA is Israel's facade. The Jews are not that welcomed in Europe.

2) Double standards. Myanmar has a dictatorship, you do nothing. Turkey has invaded Cyprus, you do nothing. You only care about the oil.

3) extreme capitalism reaching Europe, creating very high prices in food. This type of capitalism comes from the USA.

4) constant bombardment with negative stereotypes through movies and music, imported from the USA.

5) you lied in the case of Saddam's WMDs.

6) you dismantled Yugoslavia.

7) You supported dictatorships in the past.

8) CIA sells drugs (and buys guns).

9) you want the UN to be dismantled.

10) you have Guantanamo and you don't recognize the international court of justice.

Europeans would respect USA more if they approached the rest of the world not as slaves, but as equals. That's the heart of the problem...

But if you look at my location you'll see I'm not American.
I was defending American People, not policies, not religion/faiths or the colours of the People involved..

This is my point..Humanities ability to "knee jerk" reactions...Rather than discuss. Ridicule is the way forward..

We bully our way through life..And it's wrong.


[edit on 7/6/2008 by dts01]

Why would this come as a surprise to anyone?

The American government does whatever it wants with little to no justification to support it, it ignores those within the country who object too.

On the internet Americans are generally fairly arrogant if you bring up anything related to country pride, or if you criticise the country. You could be talking about... I don't know, the American health system being bad (I'm just making that up as an example) and suddenly you'd have 500 "Captain America's" firing off insults at you and talking about how awesome nukes are, how strong the army is, yada yada yada.

As a whole, the country seems to do a hell of a lot of ego stroking.

Anyway that's my 2c. Some will likely see this as offensive but as someone living outside of the US I think it's important to mention how the country appears to the world. It's a country with awful foreign policies that seem to be bound up in selfishness and the actions of individuals you meet outside that don't counter it.

I think this actually touches on that whole thing of American travellers having to be given booklets on how to behave in other countries, or at least having it suggested to them. I mean if the country itself acts like a tyrant and then the people don't counter that, why would anyone believe the country is a 'force of good'?

I remain hopeful anyway. I know there must be good people in the country and what I am seeing is probably statistically impossible, but if I'm honest I haven't ever met one 'nice' American in person. Nor do I know anyone else who has...

In short. Bad foreign policy + Bad traveller ettiquite + Bad internet behaviour = Bad impressions.

Oh well anyway, flame suit on. The country really only appears to act in a selfish manner. Perhaps when Bush's government goes bye bye we'll have an overnight change in all of this?

*Disclaimer - Again, these are just my observations. Take them with a grain of salt...*

[edit on 7/6/08 by Duality]

Originally posted by alienstar
Well they can stop viewing soon..hes gone in jan.2009

i wouldnt be so sure of yourself, if he attacks iran like the press says he will, hell be in office for a lot longer than jan of 2009...

Yeah i never thought of that.But hopefully its just the airstrikes on the nukies.

Originally posted by TornPages

Originally posted by alienstar
Well they can stop viewing soon..hes gone in jan.2009

i wouldnt be so sure of yourself, if he attacks iran like the press says he will, hell be in office for a lot longer than jan of 2009...

This is what I mean. "If he attacks Iran like the press says he will".

Who gives a flying F@@K what the "press" says.

Unless it happens, I really wouldnt worry too much.

Stuff what the "Press" say..

Originally posted by dts01

Originally posted by TornPages

Originally posted by alienstar
Well they can stop viewing soon..hes gone in jan.2009

i wouldnt be so sure of yourself, if he attacks iran like the press says he will, hell be in office for a lot longer than jan of 2009...

This is what I mean. "If he attacks Iran like the press says he will".

Who gives a flying F@@K what the "press" says.

Unless it happens, I really wouldnt worry too much.

Stuff what the "Press" say..

the "press" conveys and theorizes what the source said and did. it may be slightly altered or biased, but how else are people supposed to know what people thousands of miles away in power are doing and saying?

Okay my two cents:
Americans look bad in the eyes of the rest of the world. Some of the
Reasons given are as follows.

1.) I have never meet an American who was not rude or arrogant, they come into my country and don't act like us.

Response:
The average American cant afford to go to your country.
So the very fact that they are there means, with but a few exceptions anyway that they are either
a. Rich
b. A brainy exchange student.

If "a." is true then it is most likely a "class" issue not an "American citizen issue"
If "b." is true then the fact that the student has been told that they are so smart that they get to study abroad lends itself to ego stroking and arrogance is surly not far behind.

2.) Americans don't pay attention to European and world news.

Response:
America is a BIG country with lots lots of people. We have states the size of some countries. We don't have enough hours in a day to cover all of our own news, much less the news in say Spain or France. Sorry if that offends.

3.) Americans don't do things that are best for the world and other countries.

Response:
Why should we? I don't recall it being incumbent on us to sacrifice ourselves for the betterment of another country. When we do such a thing we are told we are being imperialistic. C'mon you have to at least be fair.

4.) Look at Americas health care system.

Response: Don't worry about it I don't recall any American government asking any other country for aid for our "health care crisis."

5.) America has placed Military bases on our country's soil.

Response: Well if it bugs you so bad write your government representatives, and tell them to either throw us out or declare war to rid yourselves of this occupying military.

6.) America shows a lack of regard for U.N. mandates.

Response: Well we are but one country of many so the fix is simple. Kick us out.

7.) Americans are rude on the internet when they defend their country, and are too nationalistic and or patriotic.

Response: Eh we love our country so sue us.
I am sorry if you don't feel the same about your own country but on the bright side if you like you can stand in line with the rest of the people are are begging to get (many illegally) in and enjoy the benefits of our dysfunctional; health care system.

8.) Americans don't get rid of our less that stellar officials.

Response: Well that is the curse of a lawful society. If you don't want anarchy sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. We are so sorry that we prefer to give them a chance at least till their 4 years is up.

9.) Americans don't stop their government from going to war.

Response: Can someone please point me to the country that never had a portion of their population that did not agree with action taken by their government in time of war or peace even?
Can anyone tell me how any group of citizens kept their government from going to war, short of civil war?

Everyone will always hate whoever the superpower is, whenever they aren't the superpower. Always. People will hate America because they believe it is trendy and fashionable to do so, and it makes them look good in the pseudo-intellectual crowd.

When the next superpower rises, the hate will shift. Its not rational, its just typical populist hatred for whoever has more power than you do. The same arguments that the hate filled world is using against America will be applied next to China - its not founded in any sort of rational thinking, just the human desire to hate whatever has more than you do.

And its also widely encouraged by the mass media. And ATS usually follows the mass media in perfect sync - most embrace ignorance here. Why would they not embrace the ignorance of the mass media encouraging them and applauding them to hate an entire country?

reply to post by Res Ipsa


you are the biggest retard here

reply to post by alienstar

the u.s. had no right to go play hero. they lied about the problem, and then turned up all guns blazing in a country which didnt want them and, sure, they got rid of a fascist, but not until they slaughtered thousands upon thousands of iraqi women and children. and now what? America's stint in Iraq has killed many mor innocent people than suddam. the bush administration should be hung up and quartered for war crimes. americas involvement in removing country's leaders and replacing them with even worse dictators throughout history is written in blood. take pinochet for example. bush is not the only reason europe despises the u.s. America has a disgraceful track record of evil #-ups.

Is not Bush, See de documentary War on Democracy (you can watch it for free in google video) and you will find that the US is the principal thyrany fabricator in the world for the last 100 years. In my country 95% of the people see the US as a force of evil long before bush was elected for the 1° time.

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


and what does america hav more of than europe? america's education system is crap, the dollar is collapsing, the gap between the poor and rich is embarassingly wide... just to name a few. the people making fun of the u.s. live in country's with the best education systems, th most equality, the richest cultures and the strongest economies in the world. and america is a self-appointed super power, nobody els sees it that way. its a country run by a clinically retarded gang of rich pricks with far too much power. and china is not going to be the next superpower unless it stops eating up every last resource.

Originally posted by Tembisa
reply to post by alienstar

 

the u.s. had no right to go play hero. they lied about the problem, and then turned up all guns blazing in a country which didnt want them and, sure, they got rid of a fascist, but not until they slaughtered thousands upon thousands of iraqi women and children. and now what? America's stint in Iraq has killed many mor innocent people than suddam. the bush administration should be hung up and quartered for war crimes. americas involvement in removing country's leaders and replacing them with even worse dictators throughout history is written in blood. take pinochet for example. bush is not the only reason europe despises the u.s. America has a disgraceful track record of evil #-ups.

Oh crap your right we Americans forgot all about how benevolent and caring the European nations have been throughout history.
Let us not forget it was Europeans who killed off a huge portion of the native Americans here in what is now the U.S. as we where not yet "Americans."
It was the Europeans who decimated the Aboriginal peoples of Australia.
It was the Europeans who conducted the crusades,
it was the Europeans who brought us the Spanish inquisition,
It was the Europeans who brought us both World War 1 and its successful sequel World War 2,
it was the Europeans who wiped out the Mayan and Aztec cultures,
it was the Europeans who committed the atrocities that were perpetuated by the Roman Empire...need I go on? Maybe in light of all this we should discuss the deaths of innocent Iraqis in a different light?

Originally posted by Tembisa
reply to post by ALightinDarkness

 

and what does america hav more of than europe? america's education system is crap, the dollar is collapsing, the gap between the poor and rich is embarassingly wide... just to name a few. the people making fun of the u.s. live in country's with the best education systems, th most equality, the richest cultures and the strongest economies in the world. and america is a self-appointed super power, nobody els sees it that way. its a country run by a clinically retarded gang of rich pricks with far too much power. and china is not going to be the next superpower unless it stops eating up every last resource.

Well by the tone of your post I would venture to say that America has more class.

And thats the bottom line cause America said so.

[edit on 04/13/2008 by sacerd]

All europeans do is (female dog) and complain.Who cares anymore....nah nah nah.Oh u got bases over here.You did this...you did that.Good we did.

Originally posted by Tembisa
reply to post by ALightinDarkness

 

and what does america hav more of than europe? america's education system is crap, the dollar is collapsing, the gap between the poor and rich is embarassingly wide... just to name a few. the people making fun of the u.s. live in country's with the best education systems, th most equality, the richest cultures and the strongest economies in the world. and america is a self-appointed super power, nobody els sees it that way. its a country run by a clinically retarded gang of rich pricks with far too much power. and china is not going to be the next superpower unless it stops eating up every last resource.

first, id like to address the issue that we've gone off topic, from anti-bush, to anti-american. yes there is a big difference.

if america's education system is crap, then americans must have been born with knowledge of physics, engineering, math, etc. because how else would we have made some of the worlds best scientific discoveries? and before you make fun of another country's intelligence you might want to check your spelling on some basic words.

the dollar is not "collapsing"... yes, it has gone down in value, but we are far from being the 3rd world nation you describe us as. were still up in the top countries list. and soon enough, after we kick the monkey out of office itll start going back up. and i dont ever recall americans making fun of the value of the euro when the dollar was worth more.

as for the rich and poor gap, its not that far behind the european statistics. and that, as well as the dollar, is our president's fault, not america's fault.

richest culture is an opinion, and arguably, ours is better than yours, because were mixing in every culture from the world, which makes us less racist than you.

if america was a self appointed super power, then we wouldnt have so much power now would we? we wouldnt be getting away with so much s**t from the UN would we? we wouldnt be making YOU jealous. we wouldnt be able to invade tons of 3rd world nations, lie, and steal from them without anyone else doing anything about it because of your so called "hypothetical" fear of our self appointed power.

and at least OUR clinically retarded leaders are the puppet masters of yours and so many others!

While I don't like the war in Iraq I think that the deaths of innocents in Iraq pale in comparison to the deaths of innocents committed by Europeans in their last major war.

That war is of course World War 2

For example. In Iraq the innocent civilian death toll is something like 92,004
In World War 2 the death toll of the Jews was 5,830,000 that is not including the mentally ill or infirm. Now the last time I checked Germany was in Europe.
I suppose I could be wrong after all I am an ignorant American.
Mind you those nearly 6 MILLION Jews is only 1 sample of the civilians killed by Europeans in that war...your right us Americans are so barbaric.



[edit on 04/13/2008 by sacerd]