Europeans View America as a 'Force For Evil' Under Bush

It is cheap to come here up with blasts form the past, like “America liberated Europe”. Does this mean that America does everything right in the world TODAY just because they liberated Europe over 60 years ago ? And Europe may not criticize the US whatever happens? If we continue this discussion Europe can come up with arguments that without Europe, white Americans were not even born… That America was founded on a European base of culture, history, language etc…. I just want to make the point that these are not real arguments. We are living TODAY. And I think it is cheap to come up with blasts from the past. Please post real arguments.

The people who did vote for a different guy then Bush, are not to blame. However, the greatest part of Americans did vote for Bush or did not vote at all. When they did not vote at all, they did nothing to prevent Bush from getting a second term. At the end it is your own choice who you vote for. I respect your freedom to vote for someone you want to vote for. But remember the European opinion is almost the same as the world opinion. In plenty of other places around the world they don’t like the current American politics too. So this is not America versus Europe, but almost America versus THE WORLD. But again it is American politics they don't like instead of the American people.

I like Americans, I just don’t like their current president and current politics. It is not just Iraq, but also the environment, plenty of other issues and the arrogant attitude of the current administration. Now the US economy is running bad and Iraq ended up in a failure, Americans also see how bad this president is.

Thank you ATS and thread-starter. Before I started reading here, I thought that the average Eurpean considered the US to be crude, but effective. Or at the worst, a nation of dullards. But now I know. Europeans are just as ignorant, blind, short-sighted, forgetful and oblivious to the realities of geopolitics as the average American. Now I don't feel so bad about our rampant ignorance and appetite for sensational spin becasue these things are universal among Western societies. Now I can lump all of you, Europeans in with the rest of the statistical average consumer-pacified pig I share my continent with. Thanks ATS and poster-guy. Good to know the truth.

Also, thank you France and Germany for continuing your profitable economic relations with Iraq during the UN sanction phase after the first Gulf War. Your underhanded, self-serving actions provided us with the ammunition to go ahead and take out these ME bastards in spite of a lack of UN support. Because, obviously, if no one is going to honor their word, what's the point in abiding by UN wishes? You didn't.
But don't worry. The US will still have your back and protect you with our blood, because we said we would. Ingrates.

Originally posted by lightyears
It is cheap to come here up with blasts form the past, like “America liberated Europe”. Does this mean that America does everything right in the world TODAY just because they liberated Europe over 60 years ago ? And Europe may not criticize the US whatever happens? If we continue this discussion Europe can come up with arguments that without Europe, white Americans were not even born… That America was founded on a European base of culture, history, language etc…. I just want to make the point that these are not real arguments. We are living TODAY. And I think it is cheap to come up with blasts from the past. Please post real arguments.

This stems from what is taught in public school history classes. If some of you got a hold of an American history textbook you'd have a bloody field day with it. Trust me.

This is the root of the problem. Much more so than the media.

Believe me, I slap myself in the face everyone time I see someone throwing out the hackneyed "what about World War Two" argument. I'm sick of hearing it too.

reply to post by lightyears


Large-scale global military-economic actions have nothing to do with who the president is this week. or the PM. It has more to do with how YOU spend what little money you have.

If you think the situation sucks now, please tell us about the rosy picture that would be had the US conducted themselves like the Euros? Sitting on our hands, allowing Islamic revolutionaries to control oil supply to the West uncontested. Where were you in 1979? Do you even remember what the f%$king Iranians did to the global oil supply back then?

This has nothing to do with our actions in WWII, silly person. Read a book or shut up.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I doubt you speak for England
or even a relevant portion of them.

Well, he was ENGLISH...

Who are you speaking for? The blind or the idiotic?

reply to post by PistolPete


Nice. And not true.
Did you ever actually read your history book in school? Or did you just listen to the lecture given by the aging football coach who only teaches in public schools to be a lecher and goon at blossoming teens?
I thought so.
For a place that claims to at least attempt to deny ignorance, it sure is grossly manifest. Try reading a book before you spout off.
Maybe the problem is that there aren't enough threads here spelling out the preliminary steps to "denying ignorance." Here's one: get an education. Huh?! How 'bout that?

reply to post by djerwulfe


Yes, I paid attention in history class. Then I found out what reality is. Read the following books:

Lies my Teacher Told Me

The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History

History in the Making

Then verify what you find there by reading books by the following historians:

Howard Zinn and Paul Johnson.

If you want to debate me on fallacies in American history textbooks, start another thread. But it's something I know a great deal more about than I think you can possibly imagine.

The thread should be renamed to 'World' Views America as a 'Force For Evil' under bush.

I feel sorry for all you yanks, i seriously do. I know you don't represent what ur president makes of himself. Theres such greatness in your country and your stuck with the decisions of one man (or a group of elite ppl (whichever you choose) and if presidents are selected and not elected, what hope do we have in the future, and i mean WE. Just a note that he shouldn't have won his election as the approval ratings were actually false.

I'm sure if you'd have polled the world i think the entire planet would agree with the Europeans. sorry. On the other hand cant say much down here, cause we had the pussy whipped HOWARD government. Well at least he has gone.

Australia says hi tho.

[edit on 7-6-2008 by jbbmeh]

Originally posted by Zanzibar

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I doubt you speak for England
or even a relevant portion of them.

I never said I did.

I speak for what I've seen and heard. The majority of people I've met are anti-America or at the very least anti-Bush.

--------------------------------------
"...or at the very least anti-Bush". That is a huge back peddle don't you think? I don't even think you can compare the two.
Anti-American equalling Anti-Bush. Hell, if that was the case than I am more Anti-American then you or your worst American hating friends.

I'm from Europe and I too believe that the USA are more evil than good. But I wouldn't blame it all on Bush, afterall you americans elected him....and it was clear that he wasn't up to any good....

Let's just hope Obama doesn't make the same mistakes that Bush did!

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I doubt you speak for England
or even a relevant portion of them.

Well, he was ENGLISH...

Who are you speaking for? The blind or the idiotic?

What do you have against the blind?
What a retarded retort my friend.

Originally posted by djerwulfe
Thank you ATS and thread-starter. Before I started reading here, I thought that the average Eurpean considered the US to be crude, but effective. Or at the worst, a nation of dullards. But now I know. Europeans are just as ignorant, blind, short-sighted, forgetful and oblivious to the realities of geopolitics as the average American. Now I don't feel so bad about our rampant ignorance and appetite for sensational spin becasue these things are universal among Western societies. Now I can lump all of you, Europeans in with the rest of the statistical average consumer-pacified pig I share my continent with. Thanks ATS and poster-guy. Good to know the truth.

Well as apparent spokesman for the "blind" "we" concur with djerwulfe's sentiments in that quote of his.
And as apparent spokesman for the "idiots" "we" say that every American we know is anti-English because you elected a Queen to "rule" your Country.

(((( I don't explain this to those of you that get this but, for the others, you know who you are, You didn't elect your Queen (I didn't elect my President) Your Queen doesn't "rule" you. Our President obviously takes marching orders from others. Get the irony? Get that you being anti-American because of our President is akin to us being Anti-English because of your Queen. Make any sense to you?)))))))))

((((ooops, that blind comment could come off as me accepting that posters definition of the blind as being "ignorant" no, I was pretending to really speak for the blind and show that they are as equally "sighted" when it comes to geo politics or any other concept as the visually sighted are. Had to make that clear.)))))

[edit on 7-6-2008 by Res Ipsa]

Well I for one like the position America is in today. I think that we should use more force around the world to get our way. If not, then someone else will. Anyone who thinks otherwise is most likely trying to paint a rosy picture of how things around the world SHOULD be, not what they are, have been, are probably will be.

Originally posted by redshirt0202
I'm from Europe and I too believe that the USA are more evil than good. But I wouldn't blame it all on Bush, afterall you americans elected him....and it was clear that he wasn't up to any good....

Let's just hope Obama doesn't make the same mistakes that Bush did!

Well, more people voted for Gore initially. Bush only actually got 48% of the vote and we all know how that went.

And when was Obama inaugurated?

No one speaks for me. I`ve nothing against the US President or the American people.
Having visited the US East Coast cities in 1970,1971,1974 I found the welcome I received was quite good. I found them friendly and easygoing.
And I love the Big Apple.
So don`t include me in the "typical" English thoughts about the USA.
I`m me and not everybody else.

I can completely understand disapproving of how a countries government conducts itself (in the case we're talking USA). I must remind everyone that the promises we are made when a politician is running for office are often what we base our choice on come election time. How often have we not received what we were promised or had "the powers that be" do things they promised not to do? When we elect someone we are choosing the best we can given the information we receive. What they do after that they are accountable for. The US has a system that doesn't allow us to remove a leader due to unpopularity. It is extremely difficult to impeach a president. Also, it often happens that we're choosing the lesser of two evils. We may have an awful incumbent but the person(s) running against them are so much worse in some ways that we stay with "the devil we know".

Re: the issue that Americans are arrogant and ignorant.

While I will freely admit that there are arrogant and ignorant Americans I have seen nothing to prove otherwise of the populations of any country. In my personal experiences I have heard fellow Americans make some plain stupid generalizations about the peoples of other countries. Conversely, my experience with Europeans I have known I've seen an alarming majority (not all and I may have had a bad sampling) make sweeping statements like "All Americans are ___________" "All Americans aren't ______________" and been unwilling to even discuss the matter. The attitude of "this is what I believe and you will not change my mind" was shocking. The very fact that Americans were willing to sit and listen to this and still be polite should have clued the speaker in. If anything, those types of comments were just as arrogant and ignorant as we Americans were being accused of. None of that was meant as an insult to Europeans or any one but to point out that no one has a monopoly on arrogance or ignorance.







[edit on 7-6-2008 by mysterychicken]

reply to post by stumason

Rockpuck, you answer to everything is "those damn liberals/socialists!"

Uh, ok. Kind of beats around the bush (pun intended) doesn't it? .. I mean, I say the only Anti-American Europeans that I have talked to have been socialist, nationalist or some other form of Liberal.

And all you can say is "oh you say that about everything" .. well that doesn't refute what I said.

Lets not ignore the fact that in "capitalist" America, you have 40% of your population without healthcare

I work in healthcare mate, and you will find in conservative states healthcare COVERAGE is cheap and affordable. My comprehensive coverage on my self is only $60 a month.

It's in Liberal states where they tried to socialize healthcare by making health insurance companies bend over backwards to new rules and regulations like "you have to cover everyone" laws.. so it's not surprising in liberal states health insurance is through the roof, health care is worse off and more and more people are without coverage.

But you knew that...... because you know everything about America... right?

the highest rates of poverty in the western world

Well actually that is quite wrong. Not that I have any idea as to .. what this has to do with me saying most anti American Europeans are Liberals and or Nationalist... I think your just a wee bit insecure.

And just for kicks and giggles... it's actually Britain that has the highest poverty levels in the world, something even someone as pompous as you would know.
Poverty In the Developed World

The US however does have the world highest level of poverty for children under 18.

But again, not sure what that has to do with the thread.

and the lowest standards of living in the western world.

Incidentally this is wrong as well. You knew that though.

The standard of living in the United States is one of the top 10 in the world by the standard economist measure of standard of living. Per capita income is high but also less evenly distributed than in most other developed countries; as a result, the United States fares particularly well in measures of average material well being that do not place weight on equality aspects.

en.wikipedia.org...

The difference between poor and rich, like all Western Countries, is growing alarmingly fast though.

What did I say about Europeans who hate America? .. ah, they tend to be raging Liberals who have a very .. very weak grasp on reality, truth and lies and quite often distort facts to fit their own agendas...

Almost every European country can boast a higher standard of living than the USA.

I am quite sure you meant "almost every WESTERN European country can boast a higher standard of living" .. because surely you did not mean Eastern Europe as well. Or even Southern Europe..

Norway, Sweden, Canada, Belgium, Ireland and Iceland are the only countries that top the US in standard of living per capita.

However the economy in Ireland is bottoming out, and could be considered in danger of a depression, while Iceland is already in a depression and is actually near bankruptcy at the moment. It's been a hard year.

The UK does not even make it in the top 10.

Britain’s children are unhappiest in the Western world

Read. Because sometimes pompous liberal Nationalist needs a dose of reality.

But, you'll trot out the usual line anyway, "socialism is bad, m'kay..Damn liberals"..

It is in my personal opinion Socialism is bad.

But I never said that in my post.

I said it tends to be Liberals who hate America across the pond.

It's the conservatives that have got your nation in the state it is now. What say you?

I would tell you that I am a strong Libertarian and I believe the Republican Party to be more Liberal then the Democratic party except on Social issues.

And as for the topic, prior to 2003 I had no issue with the Yanks. After the invasion of Iraq and then the (quite honestly) astounding re-election of Bush in 2004 kind of cemented my view of America. And it isn't that good....

So you don't like America because we elected a "Conservative" President.

Well Stumason, thank you very much that, even though I had to plough through a bunch of rambling ignorance it came across in the end that you proved my point quite well.

Hopefully you can turn things around, but I doubt that will happen if you elect McCain.....

And you added that nice little quip just to completely prove my point. Elect Obama and you will have a World wide depression.

Ok ok ok .. now you can do your usual and very predictable raging about how great the UK is and American conservatives are so mean to everyone and how I am just blaming Socialist.

ok here is my opinion.

I dont like Bush or the rest of the American Administration but the american people are not the gov.
There are supporters of the war on both sides of the Atlantic aswell as those against.
I remember watching a program on wal mart and how it is crapping on the little guys, basically what is happening here with ASDA aka "walmart family". We are all in the same boat as the average citizen no matter where you live so to say that we hate America is wrong, its the establishment that is hated, but it is hated all over the world not just America.

Just a quick note to those still talking about ww2, this is not aimed at americans just those that say we should stick be licking there arse.
We, england, have been here for 1000's of years. We have ruled the world before and are hated for it now, like you are at the moment.

Germany lost the war because the Russians were attacking on the east and we were on the west and they didnt have the resources to fight on both fronts.
Of cause America helped sway the war in our favor but we were there fighting with you. We didnt stop fighting when the americans turned up so to say you won us the war and forget that we were even there is an insult to the millions of people who died fighting for the countries.

Also pearl harbour was a military target which didnt warrant killing 100,000's of innocent people, women and children.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
And you added that nice little quip just to completely prove my point. Elect Obama and you will have a World wide depression.

We have a world wide depression on our hands with Bush in charge though, both fiscally and emotionally

Ok ok ok .. now you can do your usual and very predictable raging about how great the UK is and American conservatives are so mean to everyone and how I am just blaming Socialist.

But....the thing is that the UK isn't great. It has its problems. We admit to them. Right now we have a lousy government thats running people into the ground and has perpetuated a foreign policy nightmare by blindly following you lot instead of doing what we should have done in the first place, which is our own thing. Oddly its a socialist government that followed you into Iraq and you thought that was a good idea....

We know our faults and can admit to them - can you really say the same?

For all the Americans that hate our country so much pack up your things and leave, we will be better off without you. As for europe after Iraq we should invade the hippies in france first, then work our way across the continent.