Europeans View America as a 'Force For Evil' Under Bush

Originally posted by alienstar
so where does the world view that bush went so wrong?The war in Iraq?Im glad Sadam is gone.Lets see any other country get bombed by terrorist and lose 5000 lives etc and i wonder how they would react?Curl up in a fetal position and just hope it goes away.

Glad that Sadam ha gone? Hell, what your country is doing to Iraq is worse than anything he has done. FACT, Look at the fiuures they don't lie. Look at the destruction of the countrys structure, it don't lie. Look at the millions of stolen oil, it don't lie. Sadam did not bomb your country, so what right did the #ing yanks have to go and bomb him? None, where there is oil, there is a yank! SNIP

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[edit on 7-6-2008 by sanctum]

reply to post by wow23


Hehe i really loved anecdote in our newspaper yesterday.

Adlai E. Stevenson

It was probably during his first campaign against Eisenhower that Stevenson was approached by an enthusiastic woman supporter who said to him, "Governor, every thinking person will be voting for you." Stevenson replied, "Madam, that is not enough. I need a majority."

That's why Bush got re-elected. By all projections made in Europe, AL Gore would win in 2000 but well 9/11 was planned long before. That's why he had to lose.

See america? You're being used by the globalists to wage war and bring in a new world order. America's army is being used to put independant countries under the nwo umbrella.

But the europeans don't have to talk, because they are as bad as us, it's just that their leaders are doing their garbage by stealth and law. The extremists group of globalists in the white house are doing it by war. America's army is gonna be used until after all the draftees are dead. Until then, it will be used.

So america, a revolution or a draft in the future.

I'm British, and I went to college and art school over here just a few years ago, but who also graduated from high school in the USA, I have seen this first hand from both the American and European perspective.

It is, unfortunately in my opinion, very true that a vast majority of British and European (there was a high percentage of European, mainly Scandanavian, but also French, German and Austrian students at my art school) students and faculty members are incredibly anti-American. To be honest I actually walked out of my art school in the last year of my degree course (2004) due to this very issue. I was disgusted with the levels of anti-Americam, anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian activities and sentiment.

The problem is that over the last few years the botched handling of Iraq and, to a much lesser extent, Afghanistan has further fuelled this sentiment and the British involvement with the US has further alienated the UK from western Europe.

On a brighter note though I must mention the following: since walking out of my art school I have lived in London and Birmingham, being an artist and I work with many models (tough, but someone has to do it), and I also run a business within the construction industry. Both of these have caused me to meet an awful lot of Eastern Europeans (most models and also construction workers in the UK now seem to be from Poland, the Balkans and the Baltic states), and I must say that these people are much more pro-British and pro-American.

The UK is in a very interesting position right now if you ask me - we are kind of like a junction connecting America (the American people I mean here - and the core American values) with the NEW Europe of the east, from the Baltic to the Black Sea and the Balkans. To be honest, who needs the French and Germans? Hehe.. just kidding - I love you all

Us Brits and Americans are basically from the same family - and familes have arguments and tiffs, but are always there for one another when the proverbial hits the fan! Smile guys!

im from one small country in europe that your president visited few months ago (to welcome us in nato and all the "good" things it will bring us)
o boy o boy what event was that, our capital city was closed, there were snipers on every building,you couldnt even open your window (they said that they could do mistake and shot you if you do that) our prime minister was kissing *** to bush and his stuff

few month before that was great media campaign for supporting nato, all the other alternatives and ppl supporting were shut down (from any media exposure )
also our prime minister, president and government promised that there will not be any nato military bases in our country

back to present again- it seems that our prime minister, president and government lied and that they are slowly changing their mind about nato and with the help of media they are showing positive effects of those bases - it will help our economy, it will boost our tourism and other lies that ppl are actually buying (when they got bombarded with such statements )

and as for hate for usa or theirs administration i dont think there is alot of that here, only in small amounts, ppl still actually support wars you are leading in the world and the ones you are probably planning in near future

the thing i wonder is would the nazi germany won the ww2 if it had such great control over the world media, bcs in my eyes isreal nad usa are modern version of germany in ww2
dont get me wrong i dont have anything against any innocent usa citizen but i do have against ppl in power in your country and im aware that you have no real options in defeating them, all of your president candidates are similar (in the mathers of world politics, dont really know about internal stuff)

greetings

screw Europe.

All I need to know from anyone there is which nation are they from?

...one whose ass we kicked in WWII, or whose ass we saved.


sorry, but it was EUROPE that the founders of America left...why? It was persecuting Christians, and was still in war as it had been for 200 years before, and was even after the USA was started. It was a European country that started both World Wars. It was the idiots that believed peace could be established by 'talking' about peace, that led directly to the rise of those dictators. Until Europe learns to handle peace and prosperity on their own, they can keep their opinions of America to themselves.


[edit on 7-6-2008 by TrailGator]

It does, it is not by choice or desire, it is as a result of your actions. We have great experience of the Axis of Evil you all rant about and we are VERY OBJECTIVE and we also are very SOCIALIST. We have learnt to speak up, we are also used to a government that represents us. We are used to LOW CRIME due to TRUST WITHIN SOCIETY, probably something that America has yet to experience.

You really do not understand what it is to be European and being european is more than just being 1) French or 2) being British or 3) being Scandinavian etc...

Until you learn what it is like to be a completely integrated socialist society you will NEVER understand why we are against America's actions.


And I am sure we will see the WW2 rhetoric from American's.


The best quote we can give you is..

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

I bet you don't even know who I am quoting. Ignorance at its best.

Until you understand what he is saying, you are just confirming what he stated.





[edit on 7-6-2008 by mOOmOO]

Originally posted by TrailGator
screw Europe.

All I need to know from anyone there is which nation are they from?

...one whose ass we kicked in WWII, or whose ass we saved.

sorry, but it was EUROPE that the founders of America left...why? It was persecuting Christians, and was still in war as it had been for 200 years before, and was even after the USA was started. It was a European country that started both World Wars. It was the idiots that believed peace could be established by 'talking' about peace, that led directly to the rise of those dictators. Until Europe learns to handle peace and prosperity on their own, they can keep their opinions of America to themselves.


[edit on 7-6-2008 by TrailGator]

Screw Europe? Screw the region that is a base for your LISTENING STATIONS and MILITARY BASES?

Yes screw us. Please remove your bases if you think this.


You sure did screw us.

You do not even come close to understanding what Europe is. Do you even know that there is NEUTRAL member states in Europe? You placed them in DANGER by flying MILITARY (CIA etc) flights in their airspace.

YOU ARE IGNORANT.






[edit on 7-6-2008 by mOOmOO]

Speaking as a south european I can confirm that most of us don't like modern america. I'll add my personal viewpoint:

It's not that we hate americans, the vast majority of a country's population is honest and well intentioned. This is true for all countries. But in the US we have this hipercapitalistic powermongering elite that basically is turning the country into the 4th reich. And you lot are complacent with it. There is much talk about getting rid of bush but the reality of the situation is he was voted in despite a crooked first election and despite his more or less clear involvement in at the very least not stopping 911, allthough I probably side with those that believe his family was a driving force, there is at least enough information out there to support gross negligence. The US has a pathetic spin based political system at the federal level that will demonise someone for a sex act but will ignore all that bush has pulled. It dosen't make sense.
We also hate your own disregard for your own citizens with the lack of public healthcare and big pharma ripping the americans off constantly. Sicko shows it off brilliantly with the cost of a prescription in cuba and the US. And you're the land of the free? Only if you can stay healthy, otherwise you're the land of carrion.
Your education systems perpetuate this sad state of affairs, I have talked to many americans online and you do come off as slightly underpar regarding geography and history, allthough most of you do have decent technological knowledge. This ignorance fuels the mild racism that goes throw the whole of american culture and which is manifested as "patriotism". The sad reality of american patriotism is that its not based on what is good about america, its based on individualism matched with an "us vrs them" tribal mentality. It's very wierd and I'm pretty sure it's some sort of global long term psyop pulled off by the countries elites.

I see positve aspects to america and don't think that all is rosy here, with the lisbon treaty and inequality of wealth I see signs of the war against the middle class here too. So don't read me as holier than thou. We just have older cultures that are probably more skeptical and less enthusiastic about government and warfare. And I see signs of the same elite structure warring the middle class here too, the illuminati type conspiracy is real, whoever the protaganists may be. There is just too much being done against people to be explained otherwise, and it's a global problem, the biggest of the 21st century, getting rid of the sociopathic old money vampires that slow our progress down because of their own agendas. So, at the end of the day it's not america, it's the minority of humanity that is parasitic. But america does seem hellbent on being their tool.

And just one more thing, because this really pisses me off: America saved nobody but itself in WW2, it was perfectly happy to watch europe burn, and only stepped in after pearl harbour and probably after in became clear that it had a target on it. Not only that but your elites actually financed the enemy, as is not widely known. So let's leave that humongous pile of compost that was WWII out of any contemporary political argument, please. There is no good out of it, despite what revisionist historians come up with to foster "patriotism" to the masses.

Peace my friends, don't read this post as an insult, but rather as an effort to help. Tough love if you will.

reply to post by TrailGator
Are you now doing the same thing the OP is accusing Europeans of? Generalizing the people of an entire continent based on the actions of a few?

I challenge your point that Europeans are somehow incapable of handling peace and prosperity as we (the Dutch, don't know enough about other countries' histories) had been celebrating peace for over a hundred years before WW2. Even during the war we were a peaceful bunch, surrendering almost immediately (we liked to keep any further cities from destruction) and awaited the day Canadians came and liberated us (and subsequently rode off with our women, but that's another story ). Our continent has been pretty peaceful ever since.

I won't counter any of your other points as I hate labeling and thinking of you and I as being in different groups (American vs European). No grouping = no stereotyping and no inter-group conflict that seems to exist solely because someone classified two people as belonging to a different group.

I like to believe that if the situation were reversed (regarding WW2) we would've done the same for you. In fact, I'm pretty sure we would join you in attacking any country that has attacked you. Even if we're not entirely sure we're going after the right country

That said, you are right not to take this poll too seriously. If an American poll found that a majority of you disapprove of our liberal ways I wouldn't take much notice either.

I am an American Firefighter. I grew up saying red white and blue are my favorite colors. I grew up believing we are the beacon of light.

Its not just the Bush Administration that makes us evil. Its what the media has done to our youth and they are becoming greedy self centered social paths. Corporate America is America. It is what it is. We no longer have tolerance only fear greed and vengeance for the most part.

We have 2,000 people in prison serving life terms for crimes done when they were children, the rest of the world has 12. Most of these kids went to prison and were only accessories to the crimes. This is just one small example of the lack of tolerance we now have.

We have been molded into this and this is what we are. The battle for good and evil has again begun and this time America is the evil.

Sorry but its us not just the Government.


[edit on 7-6-2008 by LoneGunMan]

Not to sound like an racist or anything... but yes... we here in Europe see you guys as "stupid people" with a "stupid president" - this is a gross stigmatization - but sometimes it seems to look like that's the truth.

1 thing:
you invade random countries with no prof of anything AT ALL

2 thing:
you drive around in big fat SUV's everywhere... you # the environment to oblivion.

3 thing:
you are totally controlled by the media - and blindly thinks everything they say is the truth

4 thing:
the majority of your laws are outright pathetic

5 thing:
if your poor enough then just join the army and get your education that way :O

more stuff...

[edit on 7-6-2008 by DwaynetheSpecious]

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Iv noticed that the only Europeans who don't like America tend to be either socialist, nationalist or another form of Liberal.

I have noticed , that as USA becomes more fascist and genocidal , the more its economy weakens.....

Originally posted by manson_322
I have noticed , that as USA becomes more fascist and genocidal , the more its economy weakens.....

And what particularly fascist event happened yesterday to cause the economy to have such a bad day?

Originally posted by qwertz
It's anti-Bushism, not anti-Antiamericanism.

Well... when American bombs fell on Yugoslavia I actually hated Americans. That was done by a Democrat, Clinton.
Then Bush got "elected" and supported Albanians in occupying Serbian heartland, Kosovo, a Republican.
Of course the bombing continued but this time it wasn't ex-Yugoslavia this time it was Afghanistan. Afterwards the regime reached its blood-dripping oily fingers for Iraq. Who was before Clinton? Senior Bush, what did he do? Attack Iraq. And before him? Ronald "Cold War" Reagan.

After Bush got "elected" the 2nd time it just proved my opinion about Americans. However I also saw the disappointed Americans when they saw him win. But what annoys me the most is that there are still some Americans who defend Bush and express arrogance and hostility to everyone who dares question holier than thou America.
And in most cases, sorry that's the way I see it, if is see someone who's acting like a fool in most cases it's an American (How do you know? I've asked the person). But that also may be because of American domination in the Internet and because it's the Internet, it's different if you talk to someone face to face.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


I think it's just a protective mechanism so they don't have to take a real look at what is going on in their own countries. It's far easier to criticize others than it is to admit their own failings. They need to clean up their own back yards before criticizing their neighbors for not cleaning theirs.




[edit on 6/7/2008 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by jerico65
Free health care? And what about the Doctor that just spent $100,000 or more on his education? He's not to be paid for that?? Or should he just get minimum wage like a fry clerk at Mickey D's?

And the drug companies that spend millions developing meds? Guess they don't get to make a profit, huh? Just replace our capitalism with socialism? Ain't gonna work. Google "Soviet Union"

In the UK, a GP can expect to earn £90-100,000/year (thats nearly $200,000 in your mickey mouse money). Other doctors could earn much more than that.

All meds are paid for central Government. Exactly how is that "minimum wage" or depriving drug companies from their profits? Some of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world are based in the UK.

How's that "Soviet Union"? All your doing is displaying typical ignorant behaviour towards other countries that probably made people feel the way they do according to the poll!

reply to post by neformore


Here here, nef! Way to correct the ignorance.

I doubt anyone was listening anyway as we all know the US won the war single handed, cracked the enigma code and came up with the Atom bomb all by themselves......

reply to post by alienstar


Ah yes, the worlds first ever terrorist attack happened on 9/11. How silly of me to forget....

Lets not forget the 5000+ British people killed and many more injured by the IRA, which was funded by Americans!!!

Ignorance at it's best....

reply to post by TrailGator


Another ignorant response. And they wonder why we dislike them?

reply to post by Rockpuck


Rockpuck, you answer to everything is "those damn liberals/socialists!". Lets not ignore the fact that in "capitalist" America, you have 40% of your population without healthcare, the highest rates of poverty in the western world and the lowest standards of living in the western world. Almost every European country can boast a higher standard of living than the USA.

But, you'll trot out the usual line anyway, "socialism is bad, m'kay..Damn liberals"..

It's the conservatives that have got your nation in the state it is now. What say you?

And as for the topic, prior to 2003 I had no issue with the Yanks. After the invasion of Iraq and then the (quite honestly) astounding re-election of Bush in 2004 kind of cemented my view of America. And it isn't that good....

Hopefully you can turn things around, but I doubt that will happen if you elect McCain.....

I read some comments here that some Americans are angry that Europeans judge Americans for their government. This is NOT TRUE. Usually in polls they ask two questions: “Do you approve or disapprove America ?” and “Do you approve or disapprove AMERICANS ?” Usually there is a large difference in those results. In Germany by example over 63% still holds a favourable view over Americans, while less then 30% has a favourable view of the American government. So it is not true that Europeans judge Americans on their government.

Source: see pewglobal.org... somewhere in the middle of the text

Originally posted by DwaynetheSpecious


3 thing:
you are totally controlled by the media - and blindly thinks everything they say is the truth

4 thing:
the majority of your laws are outright pathetic

5 thing:
if your poor enough then just join the army and get your education that way :

Statements like this drive me nuts, albeit the first two are true.

3. We are not totally controlled by the media. No more so than our European and Canadian friends.

Biased BBC
CBC Bias

While we have state influenced media, a lot of you have state run media! To suggest that all American media is "controlled" and the populace is brainwashed and not to acknowledge that your own medias have their agenda's smacks of hypocrisy with a little brainwashing thrown in to boot. The coverage of America, just from the two outlets I mentioned is slanted to the "anti" side. This is how DwaynetheSpecious comes up with point four and five.

4. Pathetic laws? Like what? What laws are more pathetic than one's you're countries have? That's a matter of opinion. And I don't want to hear about the Patriot ACT because most countries have something similar and just as much, if not more, Big Brother.

5. This is based on nothing. I don't know why people think that "poor" Americans can't go to college. It's also kind of an unnecessary shot at those in the service.

I don't care if people want to criticize our government, our leaders, our foreign policy and our treatment of the environment. It's lacking. Look at the War and the President's approval ratings, we do it too. I'm just as pissed of about what my country is doing than anyone in another country.

But the way off base criticisms of domestic USA are usually as far from the truth as the typical imperial Americans' statements about the rest of the world.

Edit: grammar.

[edit on (6/7/0808 by PistolPete]