Europeans View America as a 'Force For Evil' Under Bush

reply to post by Res Ipsa


I was thinking that also.Just to fireup a stupid debate on each other.I dont hate Europeans at all but im not going to just see people rip apart our american value cause they hate our loser president.Hell im italian american but comeon just how many europeans can actually come in this thread just to hate on us cause of that stupid title "Europeans View America as a 'Force For Evil".

I am surprised however how little understanding so many posters have had.
But to be fair, look how we, American's behave at some sporting events. We will pick a fight with someone because they are wearing a Jets jersey in a Giants section, it doesn't matter if the guy is with his kid or not.
And damn, you English blokes with your futbol! Look at the stadium clearing brawls those games have.

Now if we can get all hating each other over a sporting event and are from the same Country, State, and even neighborhood. Then it sure doesn't take much to start hating other cultures, religions, political party, etc... and people in geographicaly remote areas from ourselves.

Maybe it is when you break it down to the insanity of a brawl between two parents at their 12yr old kids baseball game, or the other examples I listed, that we can maybe use our brains and start looking at a bigger picture.

Well said and thanks for the insight.Im done with this thread.

They want to use this so everyone can see that america shouldnt be the worlds leader,that they will unite a one nation under sun god and teach the world that true bible is science!


Britian is the ones who taught us and they dare to talk bad about us?
I mean they still have a King there,well she looks like one....

we had a civil war in america because of Britian!
Britian is the biggest Jews/Assyrians=They have a King!

King = Mlk

I want to clarify one thing from my rant about 6 pages back...

When I speak of "Europe" I do not include England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales. I said it that way, because - as I have been told by some scotch and irish friends, they dont like the term "British Isles". But I have also been told by English friends - and when I have visited England - that they are a proud island country and do not consider themselves as "European". I do not either.

I am proud to call England (and the others) an ally of America, and I have deep respect and historical roots to that great land. Scotch / English ancestry. I cannot fathom what it is about America that so many hate. Maybe it is American's abroad who do act arrogant. So many here argued that its somehow wrong for us to be in Iraq, and to have missle bases in Europe. And you know what, I agree. We need to pull our military bases from Europe. Keep our troops home. Continue to develop the world's finest military and special weapons for defense, and when some little country starts getting rolled over....we just stay here and say 'too bad'. I say move the UN out of New York and place it in Paris. Let the UN handle all the conflicts everywhere else....yeah, that would work...

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective


Wonderful...So now, because of a handfull of megalomaniacal tyrants running roughshod over our nation and doing whatever they damn well please despite our objections, we're GROUPED IN with them as a "force of evil"? Do any of these folks have any idea the percentage of opposition the masses here have against this admin's out of control war-mongering and profiteering?

I don't see anyone marching on Washington...not in any significant numbers anyways. There won't be an uprising here unless 24 and American Idol are canceled next year.

reply to post by azzllin


Well said Azzllin, you pretty much summed it up.
Most of the world hates Bush and his cronies, not just Europe.
I'm a New Zealander, so I can relate to your comments about good healthcare etc.

With great power comes great responsibility, if that power is abused then the rest of the world suffers, just look at the price of fuel at the moment. Even though I live thousands of Kilometres away from the U.S, I still suffer when it's economy turns sour. I get lumped into the Coalition of the Stupid camp when I travel overseas as I am a white Anglo Saxon, it's not until I open my mouth and tell people where I'm from do they then apologise then shake my hand.
Americans should be less paranoid about other countries and more focussed on the inequalities in their own country, after all they have the biggest armed forces in the world don't they? New Zealand has 4 million people, we have a good standard of living and we have a tiny defence force. We have no U.S military to protect us here, no jet fighters in our airforce, and guess what, we are far less paranoid even though Indonesia is only around the corner.

My point is that if the U.S wants to rule the world, then the world should be given the right to vote in the U.S elections, only fair I think,....true democracy eh, that way the not so intelligent Americans who vote for people like Bush would be out voted by the intelligent folk who make up the rest of the world.

The power comes from the international banking cartel. They print money when they need it, and have all the money they need. They use it to corrupt governments all around the world. They own or control everything important in terms of harnessing human beings into a force that works for them, and not ourselves.


So long as humanity remains ignorant of the power of money (and those who create it out of nothing, then buy the world up with it) they will continue to hack at the branches at evil, forever ignoring the root.

With great power comes great responsibility

I like your spiderman quote and i think you are quite right

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I am surprised however how little understanding so many posters have had.
But to be fair, look how we, American's behave at some sporting events. We will pick a fight with someone because they are wearing a Jets jersey in a Giants section, it doesn't matter if the guy is with his kid or not.
And damn, you English blokes with your futbol! Look at the stadium clearing brawls those games have.

Now if we can get all hating each other over a sporting event and are from the same Country, State, and even neighborhood. Then it sure doesn't take much to start hating other cultures, religions, political party, etc... and people in geographicaly remote areas from ourselves.

Absolutely, man!

It's the nature of man to root for their team, religion, country, race, town, county, state, province or prefecture. It's gonna happen. No one wants to admit this because it will show their own shortcomings! Once what can most accurately be described as the proletariat can get past their own selfish, narrow-minded views, we can make some progress. But as long as we continue to play the blame game no one wins.

As soon as humanity can realize that sometimes their deep felt beliefs may be wrong we can evolve past what the current version of humanity is. But until then we'll all just ignore history, ignore facts and ignore logic in order to save our provincial, religious, and racial faces.

To become enlightened you have to question what you've always believed. Even if that's as simple as realizing that the Bush Administration is misleading, or that the Bush Administration caused my country to be mislead.

So people thinks that USA is "Evil" because of Bush... Hmmm... that's just being politically polite.

I have a different take. Nearly every freaking President, that the US people ever voted in, have a war in his term. Most wars having empirical motives and fostered with lies from the "Fair, Free, investigative and Balanced" propaganda news networks, leading people to think that the intentions are good, moral and obligated, as if they owns the world. But when the true intentions are exposed.. what did the average Americans do ?.. Nothing at all. And kept voting in one president to the next, from only two Parties, who waits for each other to mess it up. while both takes funds from the same corporations, then once elected starts kissing the arse of duo citizens from Israel BTW, really runs the country.

That, in fact, made every single voting Americans complicit to every crimes that USA does around the world for decades. Starting from Monroe doctrine in Latin America, Chile, Palestine, Tibet, Vietnam, Cambodia, Nicaragua, venezula, Panama, Serbia, Africa in general, Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to mention nearly every one of them have "Death Squads" phenomenon.

So, stop saying it "my president", it's the "the Administration" fault. Change to the next president and everything is OK ! It's not OK ! many innocence had died. It's techically every voting American's fault. Many foreign policies and military adventure qualifies many of your official representatives and military outfits in Hague.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Yes i agree! I am from South Africa, and that is my impression as well.
USA reminds me of a big, dumb kid! trying to do Good, but just messes everything up!

Originally posted by mobydog
So people thinks that USA is "Evil" because of Bush... Hmmm... that's just being politically polite.

I have a different take. Nearly every freaking President, that the US people ever voted in, have a war in his term. Most wars having empirical motives and fostered with lies from the "Fair, Free, investigative and Balanced" propaganda news networks, leading people to think that the intentions are good, moral and obligated, as if they owns the world. But when the true intentions are exposed.. what did the average Americans do ?.. Nothing at all. And kept voting in one president to the next, from only two Parties, who waits for each other to mess it up. while both takes funds from the same corporations, then once elected starts kissing the arse of duo citizens from Israel BTW, really runs the country.

That, in fact, made every single voting Americans complicit to every crimes that USA does around the world for decades. Starting from Monroe doctrine in Latin America, Chile, Palestine, Tibet, Vietnam, Cambodia, Nicaragua, venezula, Panama, Serbia, Africa in general, Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to mention nearly every one of them have "Death Squads" phenomenon.

So, stop saying it "my president", it's the "the Administration" fault. Change to the next president and everything is OK ! It's not OK ! many innocence had died. It's techically every voting American's fault. Many foreign policies and military adventure qualifies many of your official representatives and military outfits in Hague.

Again I ask, what do you propose we do? I mean honest realistic answers. Forcible overthrow of the government is not an option so don't even throw that one out there.

Quite honestly, other than the constant slow pressure the citizens of the US are trying to put on the government along with attempting to spread awareness I'm stumped for other options.

[edit on 9-6-2008 by mysterychicken]

reply to post by mysterychicken

Why not regime change ? It's pretty much the answer to ends all answer when Americans have no problem vocally advocating for it, when it comes to countries they presently don't like or aren't compliant (Well, actually what the Mass media and Israel tells them) Zambawee, Venezuela, Myanmar, Iran, Syria, Sudan, Somalia and, to some extend, even China and Russia.

Isn't that the in-thing... why not allow other countries to arm and support questionable groups (terrorist and Death squads) and plant agents (NGOs for humantarian mission) to destablised America. Have their Media demonise your president and top officials, and plant WMD news and appalling human rights violation. (all valid) Isn't that what USA is still doing, while most of their voting populations are still cheering them on ?

Why not regime change ? when America and Americans have no problem telling other that's it's a good way to have an Pro-american govt in place instead ? If you see no problem happening in other countries .. why not America ?

Either that or you people could start a revolution (Choose any colors not taken up yet) and start from a clean slate. Or slowly.. very slowly.. degenerate.. and con't voting from either of the two parties.

Why not regime change ? It's pretty much the answer to ends all answer when Americans have no problem vocally advocating for it, when it comes to countries they presently don't like or aren't compliant (Well, actually what the Mass media and Israel tells them) Zambawee, Venezuela, Myanmar, Iran, Syria, Sudan, Somalia and, to some extend, even China and Russia.

Well yes America advocated those countries rebelling, every country you just mentioned has a proven track record of human right violations Against Their Own People

Isn't that the in-thing... why not allow other countries to arm and support questionable groups (terrorist and Death squads) and plant agents (NGOs for humantarian mission) to destablised America. Have their Media demonise your president and top officials, and plant WMD news and appalling human rights violation. (all valid) Isn't that what USA is still doing, while most of their voting populations are still cheering them on ?

Uh guy, The vary fact that we are having this discussion is because America and our president has been demonized by the Media. As far as why "most of our population is still cheering our president on goes...you do know our current administration has like a 18% approval rating right?

Why not regime change ? when America and Americans have no problem telling other that's it's a good way to have an Pro-american govt in place instead ? If you see no problem happening in other countries .. why not America ?

We have elections every 4 years.

Either that or you people could start a revolution (Choose any colors not taken up yet) and start from a clean slate. Or slowly.. very slowly.. degenerate.. and con't voting from either of the two parties.

I agree with voting independent.

Originally posted by Daniel666
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

Yes i agree! I am from South Africa, and that is my impression as well.
USA reminds me of a big, dumb kid! trying to do Good, but just messes everything up!

You are right we should ignore the plight of other countries.

Originally posted by zealman
reply to post by azzllin
With great power comes great responsibility, if that power is abused then the rest of the world suffers, just look at the price of fuel at the moment. Even though I live thousands of Kilometres away from the U.S, I still suffer when it's economy turns sour. I get lumped into the Coalition of the Stupid camp when I travel overseas as I am a white Anglo Saxon, it's not until I open my mouth and tell people where I'm from do they then apologise then shake my hand.

What exactly does the united states have to do with the cost of a barrel of oil?
As far your economy turning sour when our economy take a south bound turn, well perhaps you should tell your government not to be so dependent on American goods and tell them you don't want to be part of a global economy.
As far as having to let people know that you are not American when you travel abroad because your a white guy goes...that sounds racist to me, perhaps you should think about that a little when worrying yourself over much about their opinion of you.

Americans should be less paranoid about other countries and more focussed on the inequalities in their own country, after all they have the biggest armed forces in the world don't they? New Zealand has 4 million people, we have a good standard of living and we have a tiny defence force. We have no U.S military to protect us here, no jet fighters in our airforce, and guess what, we are far less paranoid even though Indonesia is only around the corner.

You are right we should be more focused on our own problems, I advocate us staying as far away from the rest of the world as possible, although I am not sure what the size of our military has to do with anything. Nor am I convinced that we wont then be lambasted by the rest of the world for not helping.

My point is that if the U.S wants to rule the world, then the world should be given the right to vote in the U.S elections, only fair I think,....true democracy eh, that way the not so intelligent Americans who vote for people like Bush would be out voted by the intelligent folk who make up the rest of the world.

I have an idea how about you folks in New Zealand pick up your guns and stop the evil empire that is the United States of America that why you don't have to worry about us taking away your socialized health care, by our obvious hostile take over of your country.
Look at it this way, If you take up arms against the U.S. I am sure that with your obvious superior intellect you could easily out wit our "not so intelligent" military advisers on the battlefield and thusly, wont have to worry about the possibility of us stupid Americans voting for leaders of our own nation.
What?
No Takers?
Well why not ?
You guys want to make the world a better place for everyone right?
Thats right, it easier to sit back and talk about what America should be doing to make the world a better place than it is to get up and do it yourself.

[edit on 04/13/2008 by sacerd]

Well, i'd say that there has been a pretty good cross-section of Americans posting in this thread...and frankly, I find more than a few of these replies utterly saddening and discouraging. Make no mistake my friends, apathy is a very real danger to us and the future of our country. If you think that we've only been involved in 'policing the world' or misinforming the public for the last 8 to 10 years, you are very SADLY mistaken. And if you think that it's OK that hundreds of thousands of people have died at the hands of our military in Iraq, many of them innocent civilians, than i am honestly ashamed to be a part of the same species as you. Empathy and respect for your fellow man is part of what makes you human. Critical thinking is also a part of it. I suggest you start thinking outside of the box....or should i say television? Start thinking outside of your television. For those continually dragging "terrorists/muslims" into the discussion...granted, religious fundamentalism is dangerous and frightening no matter the belief system, but nobody should be demonised based solely upon their religious beliefs.
We have absolutely no reason to be over there except for oil and as a jumping off point in the middle east. Open your eyes, we live in a military-industrial complex! Our leaders and their buddies are making bucks off of this, and will continue to do so until we're out in the streets shutting the system down. Honestly i think that is the best thing that we could do, just go to the park and sit on our butts all day long, demand change, demand that those in power be held accountable for their crimes. If we don't consume, the structure will have to collapse. Without the constant flow of money, government officials would be freaking out. It's unfortunate that so many of us are so wrapped up in their lives that they can't take a second out of their oh-so-important daily grind to help change their own country. Blind patriotism is pathetic.

I will leave you with this....any American claiming that we saved everybody and their mother in WWII.....Who we really should be thanking are the Russians. They kicked some serious nazi butt and without that western front, we may all be speaking German and expounding on the virtues of lederhosen.

You are sooo right we should sit back and take the blame for all the worlds ills, and thank Russia for defending themselves from the Nazi war machine, and upholding their end of the agreement that they made with western Europe.
How kind of them to honor a bargain and protect themselves.
That fact is it was a war that was mostly fought over there started over there.

[edit on 04/13/2008 by sacerd]

reply to post by mobydog


Pssh please as if we went to every war and the other side was all innocent. Think of North Korea, North Vietnam, Iraq, Serbia, etc. Perhaps its the other sides' populace that should be blamed for allowing their leaders to be in power and implemented those type of policies. Kim Jong, Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosevic, Ho Chi Minh, etc.