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For those opposed to the death penalty, explain why it shouldn't be used in this case

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posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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The reason to oppose the death penalty in all cases, is that the study done showed over 80% on death row (it was higher, Im being conservative here) where not guilty on dna evidence. This indicates something wrong with our legal system. Like a lot investigations take short cuts. In a police state, that would mean a lot of people could be set up who it would be convenient to get rid of. Also, you should google Bush's invovlement in death row. Like some kind of an evil overlord, he seems to delight in seeing one shot murders, the battered wife syndrom being executed. But the second worse killer in American history was pardoned by Bush. In fact, check out who he pardons. No, torture, and using prisoners as lab rats isn't the way either.




posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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At sentencing they should give him a choice. The death penalty, or gouge his own eyes out and get life in prison.

We do not use the death penalty nearly enough. Our prisons are overflowing with killers we should not be paying to house and feed for the rest of their lives.

The reason people commit the horrible crimes is because the punishment they will receive is not severe enough to deter them. When the punishment is severe enough, then the criminals will stop. Until then, we need to kill as many of them as quickly as we can. It is the only thing that will work.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by groingrinder]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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death penalty is a little stupid ,because that way the perpetrators will have what they want DEATH instead of being locked up for the rest of their lifes , at least if i had to choose between dp and life sentence , i would rather have dp

[edit on 7-6-2008 by dracodie]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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Its alot like 9-11 and David Icke's "problem, reaction, solution". The fear and outrage of the public has to be appeased. The outcomes are not necessarily justice in many cases. Even for the ones that it may be, I'm not a murderer, or a torturer. Most adults are a result of their childhood. If you knew how far the rabbit hole goes in childhood abuse, 1% estimates of satanic ritual abuse of children, mind control, even just the violence and poverty, the trauma so many endure. I believe in keeping society safe, but in a redemptive process where civilized people would learn everything they could from the broken ones life and plug the holes in their society, which obviously includes social justice and equality measures. Capital punishment is not a civilized thing to do, and is often a misfire of justice to begin with.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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Isn't there a similarity to the death penalty and war. Mankind sees a need to kill others in order to protect the freedoms, rights or lives of people. A person committing acts such as this is not much different from actions of rulers that have started wars except for possibly the scale of acts involved. A person such as the perp here is choosing to not live with the accepted rules of society.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
Naturally they won't erase what happened, but some people simply aren't fit to live. This creature is one of them.


Who are you to judge another? Are you a saint? Have you ascended into heaven? Are you god?

No. You sin as well, just like the rest of us. That does not mean you torture other people, but its still wrong.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I don't see many people follow that these days.

"Judge not lest ye be judged."

You have no right to say who should and should not live. That is not your place.

This man deserves to live as much as the next, even if he is a 'horrible' person. He is still a human, an imperfect one at that just like the rest of us, and made some serious mistakes.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by biggie smalls
Who are you to judge another? Are you a saint? Have you ascended into heaven? Are you god?
......
You have no right to say who should and should not live. That is not your place.


I really have to take this opportunity to point out the hypocrisies here. This is one of the fundamental flaws of religions that teach this stuff. You point out that "who are you to make judgment', yet you continue with this:


This man deserves to live as much as the next, even if he is a 'horrible' person. He is still a human, an imperfect one at that just like the rest of us, and made some serious mistakes.


Isn't that judging that this person deserves to live? It's a catch-22. We are living on this earth, and must regulate eachother to some extent. I want you to call god and tell him to come and make judgment himself, because we, as humans, are not allowed to. BTW, I'd also like to point out that by making this post, you have 'cast a stone'. What gives YOU the right?



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:37 PM
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Will killing him repair the physical or mental damage done to this woman?

No.

Lock him up, and dissolve the key. Keep him out of society for good.

If you want to clench your hands and wail about your tax dollars feeding him... Well, your tax dollars would be going into holding him and feeding him through all the appeals and retrials that are common to death row, and then all the extra paperwork and costs of executing him, the expenses of handling his remains, etc.

Giving him a 9x12x12 room and a plate of oatmeal for the rest of his life is just cheaper than getting your vicarious revenge.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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Americans are too soft.

In this world, people like that suspect really shouldn't be alive. Money cannot replace a few decades of mental and physical restoration. The damage to the woman is done, I think she should decide what should happen with him.

In China... you get shot right at the place where the police finds you if you are being accused of something this. You also get shot for drugging children to work in factories. All reasonable in my opinion.



[edit on 6/7/2008 by die_another_day]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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I'm opposed to the death penalty, because its the easy way out imho.

Put them in jail and make sure they become the boytoy of not just one 300lbs gorilla, but by his entire gang.

For religious people, they see it as if the person will go to hell for eternity and suffer for his crimes. But, there is no evidence there is such a thing and there is no facts on what would actually happen in hell if there was such a place.

So instead of hopping that people like this guy get the hell treatment after hes dead, we should make sure he gets that treatment while and where we can actually witness it.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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In these type of rape torture cases, especially where the prep has a long history as a monster, the death penalty is completely appropriate, and forget what this guy may or may not have gone through as a child. Most people who have difficult childhoods do not grow up to be monsters.

The evidence should be gone over very thoroughly in any death case. If there is any evidence that the person might sill be innocent, especially with bad defense lawyers and suppression of evidence, then the death penalty shouldn't be applied, and the people who failed to adequately try the person should be kicked out of the system for their incompetence.

I think chopping this guys head off with a dull ax would be appropriate. I might add that I have met a few women myself who have experienced this exact situation. This kind of thing happens far too often, and as a society we need to do more about it. More needs to be done to get these monsters off the street before they are allowed to destroy peoples lives in the way they do.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


In other words, in China, they shoot you for being accused.

Glad I'm in America, where (in theory) we have access to trials.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Will killing him repair the physical or mental damage done to this woman?

No.

Lock him up, and dissolve the key. Keep him out of society for good.

If you want to clench your hands and wail about your tax dollars feeding him... Well, your tax dollars would be going into holding him and feeding him through all the appeals and retrials that are common to death row, and then all the extra paperwork and costs of executing him, the expenses of handling his remains, etc.

Giving him a 9x12x12 room and a plate of oatmeal for the rest of his life is just cheaper than getting your vicarious revenge.


That is exactly what needs to change. You and others who would blindly accept that as your fate are crazy!! We do not have to house and feed anyone for twenty to forty years of appeals! All we need to do is put a cap of 12 months on the death penalty and hire the lawyers and judges to hear the cases in that alloted time frame. It is much cheaper to deal with the problem NOW instead of thirty years down the line. Get these bums their appeals, then kill them and send a message to other bums like them. People who are soft on criminals condemn the rest of us to lives of uncertainty and fear because of their failure to deal rationally with a problem and reason it through to a logical conclusion.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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I could totally buy the lock him in a brick room and feed him a bowl of oatmeal until he dies argument. No yard time, no interactions with others, no work out equipment. Give him a bible if he wants it so he can spend the rest of his life praying for forgiveness. Sounds fair to me.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox


If you want to clench your hands and wail about your tax dollars feeding him... Well, your tax dollars would be going into holding him and feeding him through all the appeals and retrials that are common to death row, and then all the extra paperwork and costs of executing him, the expenses of handling his remains, etc.



Thats the main problem with the current death penalty system. There should not be an appeals process. I don't understand why there is one anyway. Once a jury finds you guilty, that should be it. If you get the death penalty your execution should be the next damn week. Of course it will never be like that but thats how it should be. It would really make the death penalty a deterrent to crime in my opinion. Right now the death penalty doesn't necessarily mean you will be executed. Only of fraction of death row inmates actually receive their penalties.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by groingrinder
That is exactly what needs to change. You and others who would blindly accept that as your fate are crazy!! We do not have to house and feed anyone for twenty to forty years of appeals!


Abolition of the death penalty would solve that, curiously.


All we need to do is put a cap of 12 months on the death penalty and hire the lawyers and judges to hear the cases in that alloted time frame.


We can't even find out if R. Kelly peed on a 15 year old in a year. I think in your rush to create more dead people, you're forgetting that for all its faults, our legal system is pretty damn thorough, and when it comes to matters of life and death, that's a good thing. Given the number of innocents killed by the state, not good ENOUGH... but still, good thing.


It is much cheaper to deal with the problem NOW instead of thirty years down the line.


I suppose if your only concern in this is money, sure. But there's much larger areas of monetary waste in government you could worry about.


Get these bums their appeals, then kill them and send a message to other bums like them.


Curiously, this has been the mentality for a long time now, and yet peopel keep committing death penalty crimes. One would almost imagine that hte death penalty isn't that big of a deterrent. Truly, if you've gotten to the point where you're willing to do what this guy is accused of doing to that woman, then the death penalty isn't going to give you much pause.

Do you subscribe to the school of thought that fear of punishment is the only thing that keeps all of us from being mass-murdering cannibal rapists?


People who are soft on criminals condemn the rest of us to lives of uncertainty and fear because of their failure to deal rationally with a problem and reason it through to a logical conclusion.


How hard is too hard for you? I see people on this thread advocating torture and rape of suspects. I see people here calling for executions upon accusal. Here you are demanding hasty trials and rushed executions.

This is not logic, it is not reason. It's simple hate and brutality. Logic would demand a thorough, complete investigation, and full consideration of all evidence as it arises. Reason would show us that killing tfem doesn't stop others from committing the same crime, and solves nothing that life incarceration wouldn't also solve.

"KILL THE BUMS!" isn't a reasonable stance by any re-imagining of the definition of reason.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by Jo Jo
 


You can appeal a traffic ticket, but not a death penalty verdict. That's great.


Oh wait. YOU'RE not the one facing a murder trial, but I'll bet you've been to traffic court. Makes all the difference in the world. "Screw them, they're not me, they shouldn't have the rights I do!"



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Everyone in prison is innocent.

So you think that 30 years from now there well be fresh evidence in a case that gets a conviction right now?

Now is when the evidence is fresh and the crime is fresh in the minds of the witnesses. Now is the time for trial. Not thirty years from now. You can forget alot in 30 years. Evidence can get lost or stolen.

We have the forensic technology to make sure every one tried for a capital crime gets their justice. We just need to hire more judges and lawyers to move it along at an accelerated pace before witnesses are forgotten or forget and before evidence is lost or misplaced.

Are you a gangster?



[edit on 6-7-2008 by groingrinder]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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My dear friend, if your question were really addressed to people who are opposed to the death penalty, then surely you would know that their opposition to it is not based on some misconception that the people on death row are "nice"?

No, it's based on the conviction (sorry about the unintended pun) that nobody should take the life of anybody (except in self-defence), regardless of what that person did or failed to do.

Which is why I haven't even read the story itself; I don't have to.
(And also, it would likely upset me, without it contributing anything to the well-being of this world or of yours truly.)


Important:
I am not saying this to antagonise you or in any spirit of hostility.
It's just seems as an absurd question.

But I definitely empathise with your feeling for other people (in this case the victims, I assume) and with your anger at whatever it is that happened.







[edit on 7-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


See again this is the problem. I will post my quote again.

"The law is reason free from passion" - Aristotle

As soon as you get emotionally involved you are in no position to decide someones fate. Everyone always reacts with their animal brain instead of their higher faculties. If this happened to someone iknew, then 'd be out for blood, and that means i wouldn't be suitable to comment on the mans punishment.

The death penalty is wrong, it doesn't work as a deterrant and shows society in a bad light. I'm quite glad that the UK doesn't have the death penalty, i'm annoyed we don't incarcerate people for far longer terms. Life meaning life should be practiced more often in murder, rape and paedophilia related crimes.

However killing people just seems wrong to me. I know that may seem odd to some of the more blood thirsty members out there, but i think it's correct if you look at what the death penalty says about society as a whole. Does teh death penalty say a society is tough on crime? I don't think it does, it just says society is big on saving money.

Does the death penalty instead say that we're a brutal society, all about an eye for an eye as long as it's legal? Does it say we still havn't moved beyond our basest foundations before we developed consciousness? That's what i think it says.



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