Giant 100 by 50 ft Rebel Flag in Tampa, Fl

Breaking News:
A giant 50 by 100 foot Rebel Flag (Confederate States War Flag) is being flown at the junction of I-75 and I-4 in Tampa Florida at a new Confederate Museum. And of course it is raising quite a fuss. I did not know that white-ism is an issue in Australia. I would like to quote my post on the issue here as it seems related but could result in its own thread.

I'm glad to see people saying slavery was and is wrong. I'm a liberal Democrat and support centrist Democrat Obama. My point in the Farmer Brown example is to put a human face on the people who lived in the south. It's a shame that high school history classes make it difficult to quote the trade agreements that sparked off the war. Every graduate should be able to quote it. It was a foreign trade agreement about trading northern manufactured goods with Caribbean and South American nations for agriculture goods previously acquired from southern states and at prices undercutting the south. When the northern Representatives refused to put in a tariff to protect the south from foreign dumping a ruckus on the floor of the house ensued. Isn't it true that the first shots of the war were at a fort on the river where a foreign vessel of corn was docked? I hope the new museum can finally get history past the censors. In this light I think a good flag compromise would be to replace the battle flag with the official peace time flag of the Confederate States. Speaking of which the current stars and stripes is a wartime flag. The peace time flag of the United States can be viewed on some web sites (use Google). Or we could just sweep facts under the rug and do some name calling. Farmer Brown (living in an inherited misguided system) was a real patriot of a real nation that had real foreign trade agreements (agriculture for goods). What a shame that the history book writers want the north to be so right that they resort to name calling so they don't have the time to cover the bills on the floor of congress that cost so many lives. Exam: 1- Is cheap foreign goods still an issue? 2- Is slavery still being practiced today? 3- Do neo-cons still resort to name calling "Monica Lowensky" instead of covering the facts. 4- We report, you listen. 5- What does the peace time flag of the United States look like? Extra Credit: Name the trade bill that cost millions of lives. (Not with China or Iraq).

reply to post by free-energy


Is black slavery the only thing that that flag represents? Is there anyone who isnt racist that dons the flag? What about the other things the flag represents? Your ancestors may have fought for the confederate army and your not proud of them?

Sorry, its just easier to prove a point with questions.

reply to post by free-energy


I have tried to be sympathetic about the Confederate Flag, but I have never and never will, see it as a symbol of racism. How can it represent that when men of all color fought under it? How can all the lives lost in the name of the confederacy, be disrepected by shunning the flag, the pride of that flag, that they fought for? My father in law is a member of the Sons of Confederate Soldiers, he joined because his grandfather fought and lost his life during the war, to shun the flag means his grandfather's llife was lost in vain. The image that people get is that if that flag is flying, then black hating people are flying it, and that is just not true, and if a museum that honors the lost soldiers of this fight from so long ago can't even fly it , well I don't know what else to say other than that is ignorant.

right on man. right on

i went to tampa this weekend and i saw the flag and i thought i was tight as hell. i do not think that the rebel flag is a sign of racism that is just how ppl have taken it. the rebel flag stands for the ppl and the war that was fought. if anybody has a problem with it the should leave the u.s. because the confederat flag is a huge part of the south!

and hell the south WILL rise again.

The confederate flag has become a symbol of racism, but stands for so much more. The flag was not created with a bit of racism in mind. It is (was) a symbol of the southern states. Many men died defending that flag (just like out troops die today defending the stars and stripes)...this flag should be respected for the historical value and not disrespected for the negative connotations that a racist few have placed upon it!

reply to post by no name needed


I see your point now see mine if you will. The flag has been forever marred by racist punks and the KKK. It will forever be tainted and should be dropped. That is the Confederate battle flag. If they want to just honor the South, they could use any number of other Confederate flags to do so and I am Southern myself. The battle flag is not a good idea if you ask me and of course, you didn't. Remember the Nazi symbol was not always a bad logo till the Nazis adopted it and now it too forever will be a tainted symbol. Anyone using both is a disgrace if you ask me and like I said, my heritage is all Southern.
Thanks,
Vance

Here is a good alternative to the battle flag I think. It suggests the south with out any reference to the Racetards or the KKK. Niether of these groups use this flag.
Link:

Non offensive Confederate flag

It is all about heritage and history and not hate.


Anyone who takes the time to find out what the confederate flag really stands for would know that. To me personally the flag represents the millions of brave men, mostly poor southern farmers and share croppers, who gathered arms and stood valiantly in the face of tyranny against an invading impirical army of federal aggression.

Outnumbered greatly and operating on a budget less than half what Grant's northern army had at their disposal, these southern men fought tooth and nail and successfully had driven the federal troops against the wall. These were the under dogs, they were fighting for their homes and their freedom and way of life.

And anyone who will tell you that the civil war was fought over slavery, they are misinformed and need to go back and read a history book that wasnt written in by a Yankee historian. The south even had entire divisions of black soldiers, free men who chose to stay and fight for Dixie.

People will always try and turn it into a race issue, but the truth is the rebs were just a bunch of outnumbered, out funded and poorly equipped common men who got tired of being told what to do and pushed around by a greedy and aggressive federal government.

They stood up in the face of certain annihalation and said "enough is enough". These men were simply tired of being taxed to death and being told how to live.

reply to post by vance


I'm not sure I get your point. That's kinda like saying that it is a disgrace to watch a Roman Polanski film, because he is a child molester. Just because someone taints something does not mean that the tainted item should be discarded.

reply to post by vance


the Cross is also useed by the KKK , so is this symbol a Disgrace also? I have even seen Klansman carry the US Flag so I guess it is also Tainted?

They also use christianity in there Hate is that also Tainted? More people need to read up on the civil war it was about more then slavery and that Flag represents more then slavery.

Do any Nazi museums waves Nazi flags? I'm not sure, but I'm going to say there's probably a few. Since it's associated with a musuem, and a lot of folks I know proudly display the rebel flag her in the South without being racist, don't have a problem with it. Heck, the Florida flag incorporates the Confederate flag.

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by free-energy

 

I have tried to be sympathetic about the Confederate Flag, but I have never and never will, see it as a symbol of racism. How can it represent that when men of all color fought under it? How can all the lives lost in the name of the confederacy, be disrepected by shunning the flag, the pride of that flag, that they fought for? My father in law is a member of the Sons of Confederate Soldiers, he joined because his grandfather fought and lost his life during the war, to shun the flag means his grandfather's llife was lost in vain. The image that people get is that if that flag is flying, then black hating people are flying it, and that is just not true, and if a museum that honors the lost soldiers of this fight from so long ago can't even fly it , well I don't know what else to say other than that is ignorant.

A lot of us see KKK and white supremecy when we see the confederate flag. It's really that simple. Straight truth.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
. the rebel flag stands for the ppl and the war that was fought. if anybody has a problem with it the should leave the u.s. because the confederat flag is a huge part of the south!

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

and hell the south WILL rise again.

What does that mean? Armed insurrection against the United States? If so, that would mean that you want to leave the US. It's not to hard for someone to turn the tables on your arguement and tell you to feel free to leave the USA.

*I grew up in Virginia and lived in North Carolina. I am an American.



[edit on 9/2/08 by stikkinikki]

Originally posted by stikkinikki



A lot of us see KKK and white supremecy when we see the confederate flag. It's really that simple. Straight truth.

Alot of us see Hitler and Nazism when we see the Swastika, but its true origins are in Tibetan and Hindu spirituality. So which concept to we adhere to and honor? The true origin of the symbol, or modern representation?

I grew up watching the Dukes of Hazzard. I remember seeing the Rebel Flag atop the General Lee, so for me that flag represents my innocence and nostalgia. I was so bummed when they took it off. To me its nothing more than an awesome graphic addition to an orange car. If we are going to ban one southern states flag, we are going to have to ban them all. Its unfair to take only one away.

At the end of the day, if it's good enough for the Duke boys, its good enough for me.








[edit on 2-9-2008 by NightVision]

I grew in the south... and used to seeing that flag flying everywhere. To me, it more or less represents a symbol of the tobacco chewing southern redneck.. Yeee haww! I have no idea where the KKK symbol idea came from, but I guess people see what they want to see, but I think the rebel flag is pretty benign. If you look at this flag from a historical prospect, I think folks should have the right to fly the flag their ancestors fought for... its no threat to anyone except for a few paranoid people.

My ancestor, Brigadier General James S. Rains, of the Missouri State Guard, fought under the command of General Sterling Price, of Texas, and participated in en.wikipedia.org..., one of the more successful attacks on the Union from the Western Frontier at that time (of the war at least). He was an inept commander, a beligerant and a drunkard. He was relieved of a command to sober up in Texas, then rejoined Price on the march north to Missouri. Lol .. yep .. thats my ancestor!

Before the war, James S. Rains was a Senator in Tennessee.

And just like NOW, they were fighting against the REPUBLICAN PARTY..

Even though things have changed quite a bit havent they

Here is James Rains' page on Wiki: en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 9/2/2008 by runetang]

reply to post by NightVision



I remember watching the Dukes and wondering why they were allowed to use the Confederate flag on TV and that was when I was 11 years old. The Confederate flag is an emotional symbol. Some people see segregation, Jim Crow laws, lynching, and KKK and white supremacy as I mentioned earlier. I was taught do unto others as you would have them do unto you so if you know your displaying the Confederate flag (the Dukes of hazard -stars and bars) is painful and offensive to others, why do you do it?

I like the earlier posters idea about using an earlier Confederate Flag. I identify with the 13 stars flag, the American flag and the Don't Tread on Me flags. For me they all represent the United States of America.

You can do what you like in my opinion. It is free speech and I am happy to know where you stand on the issue. I am just trying to explain the position of those who are offended.

You are correct about the Nazis co-opting the swastika from Hindu traditions. The Swastika used to represent good luck here in the states. If you search ebay for "good luck postcard" you should find some examples.

I suggest that supporters of the display of the Confederate flag need to redefine what the flag means in the minds of those who distrust it.

Originally posted by stikkinikkiA lot of us see KKK and white supremecy when we see the confederate flag. It's really that simple. Straight truth.

Your ignorance, your problem. It's really that simple