Training/Collaborating with Iraqi troops compared to the South Vietnamese

Years ago I read a book "Battle Ready" by Tom Clancy where he interviewed General Zinni who was in the Vietnam war and became a general and part of Centcom.

In this book Zinni applauded the South Vietnamese soldiers for their ability to collaborate with American Marines. They knew the territory (their own backyard) better than the Americans and helped a lot in this regard. They were experienced in guerrilla warfare, fierce and brave fighters (which must have helped alot yes), and they could jump right in with teams of American soldiers. They obviously brought areas of expertise to the table which the Americans could not have had (especially knowing their own geography well, mobility/survival etc.)

Now look at Iraq. You never hear anything like this. The Iraqi security forces that American Military is trying to collaborate with and train. In terms of being in their own backyard (their own cities), shouldn't there be things they bring to the table? Shouldn't they be training the Americans in some respects? But you never hear any of this, and if it was happening, certainly the pro-war media would be all over any stories of successful collaboration and strengths of the effort.

Unless they just want to make the Iraqi military look dumb and weak.. well maybe they are.

I'm just a little disgusted. I read a thread here at ATS that NASA doesn't know how to go to the moon anymore. And now it seems that our forces and the Iraqis can't work well together and collaborate. So back around 1970, not only did we figure out how to go to the moon, we also figured out how to work with the South Vietnamese forces. And now in 2008, we can't go to the moon and we can't collaborate with Iraqi forces... did we really get that dumber? Sometimes I just think the American Government should have quit (looking for crusades and dragons to slay) while it was ahead, maybe around the year 2000?

reply to post by Novise


WOW!

I'm old enough to remember Vietnam
From my perspective one reason the Vietnamese we so good at what they were able to do was because they had not seen peace in something like 70 years before the Americans ever got there. They fought the Chinese, then the French then the Japanese then the French again then came the American then the Chinese again ETC

That country has been fighting wars! The Iraqis? one bloody war against Iran not much happened before that for some time They got their butt kicked conventionally by the US Twice, now We Win Wars can America win the peace that's a real question.

From what I have read the South Vietnamese soldier although brave was not very good now the highland people in south Vietnam is where I think you may have heard the South Vietnamese were good soldiers may have come from
and as far as the North well they got financed by The Soviet Union! China gave weapons and food supplies. The Vietcong were Butt kickers!


These two, Vietnam and Iraq are way different animals

IMO

[edit on 5-6-2008 by SLAYER69]

Sorry for the double post

You see in the South there were these Highland Mountain tribes who really did not like the Souths Government but hated the Communist more, those guys fought harder against the Vietcong than did South Vietnamese soldiers who were mostly conscripts from Hanoi

I think those are the ones you may be referring to as the ones who knew the land etc

[edit on 5-6-2008 by SLAYER69]

I figured that would be it, that the two wars are entirely different animals. I just had this line of thought and went with it. To me though, the police in my city generally know my area well, fair enough yes? Then there are a few who know the area really well, fair statement I think. They would know every hiding place and stuff like that. They would know the land. Are there Iraqis like this? This is just one example of an area that it seems like they would have a lot to offer, especially in urban warfare settings. But we don't hear about this, whether it is happening or not.

The striking similarity between the forces of South Vietnam and that of the Iraqi army that is also being trained by the US is that elements of the local forces can be unreliable or treasons(SP?) . At times South Vietnam's army couldn't even adequately guard a mine field little alone defend the country by themselves. It is the same in Iraq the Iraqi military couldn't even cope in the south of the country little alone the centre of the country . Now that the security situation is back to 2004 levels top priority should be given to improving the screening and training of the Iraqi military and security forces .

Hmm I really need to find that book. I thought Zinni was saying the South Vietnamese were very good. Maybe he was talking about the ones that were used for scouting and recon. Not sure.

Novise it is important to remember that a couple of things . The first is that it only takes a minority of unreliable or turncoats to do the damage . Also another important factor is the quality of leadership amongst the offices and Non Commissioned Officers . The best troops that are poorly lead will still be ineffective .