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A hypersonic puzzle.

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posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 12:43 PM

The experimental results on the laser-supported directed-energy "air spike" (DEAS) in hypersonic flow are presented. A CO2 TEA laser has been used in conjunction with the IEAv 0.3-m Hypersonic Shock Tunnel to demonstratethe laser-supported DEAS concept. A single laser pulse generated during the tunnel useful test time was focused through a NaCI lens ahead of an aluminum hemisphere-cylinder model fitted with a piezoelectric pressure transducer at the stagnation point.

research papers

Do you know how weird this research is getting ? its all tied together.

Hypersonics, laser weapons, laser air spikes, Magnetohydrodynamic generators, mach 5 + airframes.....

I have started to see that they are intricately connected... here read this next bit of text.

2. Discussion of the Prior Art

In the late nineteen seventies, the Grumman Corporate Research Center, in cooperation with the NASA Langley Research Center, conceptualized an Advanced Flow Laser (AFL) and a Mixing Advanced Flow Laser (MAFL) for fleet defense against air-launched missiles and other missions. In both concepts, a high energy CO 2 laser is incorporated in a hypersonic (i.e., flight speeds greater than five times the local speed of sound), high altitude (i.e., greater than 35,000 ft. altitude) vehicle. During operation, energy from the high enthalpy ram air produces excited states in the N 2 molecules which are transferred by resonance to unstable, excited states of CO 2 constituents in the gas flowing through the lasing cavity. Carbon and water are required to be added to the lasing gas mixture, which flows through an appropriate expansion channel to produce and maintain the population inversion resulting in a 10.6 μm output (CO 2 laser). Because the laser beam intensity on target is inversely proportional to the square of the wavelength, the CO 2 laser is unsuited for missions where extremely long laser beam range is required. Moreover, this technology and approach could not be utilized below the 10.6 μm wavelength, which results in severe limitations on the extent of its practical usefulness.


Accordingly, it is a primary object of the present invention to provide a gasdynamic laser system for a hypersonic vehicle which operates in the visible or near-to mid-infrared portion of the spectrum at wavelengths shorter than 10.6μ meter down to wavelengths of approximately 1μ meter or less.

A further object of the subject invention is the provision of a gasdynamic laser system for a hypersonic vehicle wherein high enthalpy ram air provides an energy source for thermodynamic excitation of the laser gases, as well, when required, as to drive an electrical generator for electronic excitation of the lasing species.

The present invention provides a hypersonic gasdynamic laser system which overcomes the aforementioned constraints of the prior art by providing a new concept for lasing at wavelengths as much as an order of magnitude shorter than the 10.6 μm wavelength radiation generated by the CO 2 laser approach of the prior art. One advantage of the hypersonic gasdynamic laser described herein over the earlier conceived AFL and MAFL types arises from the removal of the constraint limiting the lasing to CO 2 at the relatively long wavelength of 10.6 μm. For example, a ten-fold reduction in wavelength will result in a hundred-fold intensity increase (over a 10.6 μm laser) on the target, if the product of the laser exit beam power and the square of the exit mirror diameter is maintained constant. A further advantage accrues in situations where the weight of the optical train and not the on-target intensity is the prime design consideration. The dimensions of the optics generally diminish with shorter wavelengths, thus tending to result in an overall system that is smaller and lighter weight.

Electronic excitations of atomic oxygen, nitrogen, or hydrogen can produce laser radiation at approximately 0.85 μm, 0.94-1.46 μm, or 1.88 μm, respectively in a hypersonic airbreathing propulsion system or a special lasing duct. Electronic excitation is also required in some diatomic molecule (e.g. CO) lasers. Since the amounts of electricity required are large, carrying the electrical energy in stored form (batteries, capacitors, inductors, etc.) is not practical just from weight considerations alone. In the hypersonic gasdynamic laser invention described herein, the electrical energy is produced on-board the vehicle, using ram air, or ram air plus fuel combustion, as the power source and an electrical turbogenerator (or another equivalent electrical generator) connected to a supersonic turbine. Preliminary estimates of available shaft power to the electrical generator are 2.5 megawatts per square foot of air duct frontal cross-section at Mach 7 and 30 km altitude.

free patents

Please excuse the large qoute, but its needed to show just how interconnected this research is.

I really do think that this effort is focused on producing airframes that will revolutionise air travel for both peaceful and military applications.

[edit on 12-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]

posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 02:04 PM
MHD engines, lasers, mach 20 - 50 speeds. All this needs advanced knowledge and understanding of..

Plasma Physics and manipulation.

The idea of creating a plasma field around an aircraft is not a new one either. Such a possibility was thoroughly studied by both Russians and Americans. This was done for very different reasons, however. Aircraft designers want to use a plasma shield generator on hypersonic aircraft. In this application, plasma may be generated by a powerful plasma laser and will act as a heat shield for an aircraft. There are plans to use such a system in conjunction with a magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) propulsion to achieve velocities up to Mach 50.

Mach 50 protected inside a plasma field. Super fast, super aerodynamic, and...

Super stealthy.

Heres a little qoute.

The system developed by the Russians is also based on electromagnetic wave-plasma interactions, but in a very different way. Russian stealth plasma device creates a plasma field around an aircraft. This field partially consumes electromagnetic energy of a hostile radar or causes it to bend around the aircraft, reducing the aircraft RCS by up to 100 times. Sounds fantastic? Not really: effects of dissipation and bending of electromagnetic signals in presence of plasma field have been observed for decades.

Iron Eagles

Now this may seem a little outlandish until you read this from the 1960's and the Sputnik era.

ieee Pdf

All those years ago it was starting to dawn on them that this was a war winning effort, a shield to make things vanish from radar screens.

Now, with an RCS reduction of a factor of 100, you could make a stealthy craft vanish altogether into the night. But thats not all.

There is more. EHD coupling is also a method of propulsion as it can accelerate the boundary layer and outer flow. Working models have been constructed that utilize this method of propulsion. So in addition to having the ability to control the aircraft's aerodynamic properties you also get some extra thrust. In turn, this means that the energy you expend on creating plasma is not wasted entirely on just smoothing out the airflow. For a military aircraft, in our case, EHD methods could mean fewer control surfaces, higher angles of attack, extra thrust, greater speed and fuel efficiency, high combat survivability.


Fewer control surfaces, boundary layer flow control and greater speeds ?

Just what a strategic first strike weapons systems wants.

Mach 25 -50, total radar immunity and high survivability. No wonder research papers are hard to find online.

posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 04:03 PM
Again and again I am coming across air spikes in relation to hypersonic aircraft and this magical mach 25-50 realm.

The air spike is the next design idea to show promise. An airspike has several benefits. The first is it substitutes directed energy for the mass of a nose-cone to drive the air from the plane's path (Kandebo 66:3). It uses an electric arc plasma torch placed in front of the craft. In flight, the arc uses its concentrated energy to drive air radially from the aircraft's path like a blast wave. A low density air pocket forms behind it which reduces the heat transfer effects in the aircraft and that means less stress. It does such a good job that a vehicle traveling at Mach 25 would only experience the conditions of Mach 3

Hypersonic designs

A mach 25 vehicle only feeling conditions normally attributed to mach 3 ?
Only feeling 1/8th of the stress would be an unbelievable reduction, and we know full well that we can produce mach 3 tolerant materials and fuels.

posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 11:29 PM
Tanna, I love these ideas people have, but seriously, do you think we can build this stuff? Come on, plasma shields creating 1/8 the stress. Its all theoretical. Now, ramjets and PDW's I can live with, but M25-M50, no, I'm sorry, thats not happening anytime soon. Mach 5-8 is much more realistic and more within the realm of top black world technology.

[edit on 12-6-2008 by bdn12]

posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 03:21 AM
Look through the links.

Magnetohydrodynamic engines are here. There is a picture of the white world designer from NASA.

That alone tells you that the engine source is there and also a will to develope this tech.

Now, its not for this next generation of mach 6 craft in the SR-72, its for the generation AFTER in 2035.

Every thing you see in this thread is being worked on right now for development in the 2030 time frame.

Plasma control, MHD engines to power air to ground / air to air lasers, air spikes to cause the ideal conditions for mach 25-35 operations...

Your looking at the 'next great leap' in aviation history being worked on right now in labs across the USA.


Thanks for taking the time to read all of this !

posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:35 AM
Now... this is all about hypersonics I know, so this next post will make you go 'huh ? whats this got to do with hypersonics'... well read this little bit of text. Its from a white world 'canda effect' UAV designer... and its telling indeed.

Phase Three : Towards a Flapless ElectroAerodynamics UAV : Developpement of a true EHD Coanda effect and autonomous UAV which will use the knowledge and the experience aquired during the previous phases of this project.

With a such craft design, it is possible to build a dragless and stealth UAV based on the Coanda effect which uses the EHD plasma technology...

Coanda vehicle

Ok... read it, think about what he is saying...

Plasma stealth works, plasma creates a dragless aircraft... plasma is the key to all of this hypersonic research, and a white world source confirms that plasma IS the real deal, not just some pie in the sky fancy thoughts. Its here folks, and we are at the cusp of amazing aviation history in the making.

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:08 PM
......... and after that little foray into the far future... lets get back to hypersonic airframes on a wave rider pattern.

In other words, what we might see in the near term.

Rolls Royce are not slouching in this areana either.

First their RATTLRS engine (more power on dry thrust than a SR-71 Engine on after burners)

Our IHPTET demonstrator engine has successfully demonstrated Mach 3.5 operation.

We are applying our high-speed turbine engine technology to enable Turbine Based Combined Cycle (TBCC) M 6-9 propulsion systems.

Combined cycle engines getting into mach 6 - 9 areana ? now thats interesting. I love their vehicle shape ...

Wonder if that NASA hypersonic inventor (LoFLYTE) took out a patent on the wave rider shape ?

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:56 PM
The more i look about and ask people things, the more and more they seem to send me.

I got sent a beautiful Pdf file from a Boeing design called the FD-9. Here is a screen grab from the file.

and a little quote from it too.

The technology for the hypersonic airplane portion of the HASTOL system is being
developed by Boeing and others elsewhere and is not part of the HASTOL effort. However,
vehicle performance, flight trajectory requirements, and operational aspects peculiar to tether
rendezvous and payload transfer in support of development and optimization of the HASTOL
system are, and form a major portion of the hypersonic airplane portion of the HASTOL team
effort. The hypersonic vehicle portion of the HASTOL effort started with an existing design for
the DF-9, a multi-role hypersonic aerospaceplane shown in Figure 2. The DF-9 was developed
by Boeing for NASA Langley Research Center, to perform both long-range hypersonic cruise
missions and space launch missions. The vehicle is designed to operate from existing runways
and incorporates a low-speed propulsion system based on JP fueled, Air (core-enhanced) Turbo
Ramjets (AceTRs) for operations up to Mach 4.5 (46 kft/s or 1.4 km/s). Above Mach 4.5 a
slush-hydrogen-fueled ram/scram system powers the vehicle.

Boeing DF-9

There you go. I like it at the end when they say there is no problems for this to go ahead... real sweet idea !

[edit on 21-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 04:02 PM

“Boeing Hypersonic Scramjet Applications”
Program Manager, Hypersonic Design and Application,Boeing Phantom Works
• X-51
• HyFly
• Manta
• Prompt Global Strike

UAV presentation

Manta ? any ideas ? X-51 i know about, HyFLY is part of their hypersonic partnership with the austrailian design teams from Queensland. manta ? sounds... nice !

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 05:13 PM

To look at, the test vehicle suspended in the hypersonic wind tunnel is little more than a cone. But inside is a small device that could revolutionise the way aircraft fly, saving fuel and heralding a new age of travel.

It's a generator that sends a beam of microwaves upstream into the Mach 6 flow, ripping apart the gas ahead of the model so that it is flying through a plasma--a boiling mix of positive ions and electrons--rather than ordinary gas.

Space daily 2000

I just cannot seem to click a link and not return again and again to the fact that this plasma development has been in the pipe line for a long time. The above quote is from a year 2000 article from space daily.

Year 2000 and yet folks still say its pie in the sky and not 'real' ??

I know I have used the quote before, but here it is again to really hammer the point home.

Hypersonic speed will allow the FSV to reach anywhere worldwide within hours. The FSV could also be an exoatmospheric platform. The AFRL says new technologies will be considered to achieve this. "We are looking at plasma fields for high-speed vehicle propulsion," says Dolvin, adding that experimental, analytical and simulation work on plasma technologies has been performed. An X-vehicle technology demonstrator could be funded for 2005-6.

Flight Global 2000

Seems to me that not only will the generation beyond next be ultra fast, it will be the ultimate stealth platform AND trans atmospheric.

Stunning, it really is.

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 06:52 PM
Hiyah Dan Tanna GREAT post, well thought-out and researched and great responses from all the others who contributed!

Wow my brain hurts from reading the technical stuff in that article, but it was well worth it!! I have seen photos of the "donut shaped" contrails and always wondered what made them.

An interesting side note, I know a guy who works at Wright Patterson air force base here in Ohio....I know him from the road racing circuit and he responded back to one of e-mails about an upcoming race we are both entered in from his work e-mail. He has a list of initials behind his name the likes of which I have never seen before, and I have never asked him anything about his work there, he just told me a few years ago he was a contractor for the base and I never thought anything of it.

Anyway, I was at a local car Concours a few weeks ago...and saw him there, and took him aside and asked him what all of the initials stood for behind his name, and he kind of laughed them off...and I pressed him and said that someone had told me that some of the initials meant weaponry research etc... and he definitely showed a I went for broke and asked him..."Hey you wouldn't happen to know anything about Aurora or advanced propulsion systems for rockets, and various other aircraft would you?"

You should have seen his face!! So since I am going to see him again, I am going to bug him again
and print out that article and a few other things in this thread, see if I can catch him after a race and get a few beers in him
I will report back
He's some sort of aerospace engineer I think, and has a heavy background interestingly enough in metallurgy, I asked my Dad who's know him for a long time...anyway, hope that wasn't too off topic but I am going to pick his brain for sure, I am relentless so he's going to have to actually run from me to get away lol.

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 06:53 PM

To say that Aurora is a technical impossibility is an incorrect statement – it has been technically feasible for the last 35 or 40 years.

Feasible for the last 35 - 40 years.

Thats one hell of a statement to make, coming from a man who should know these things.

I know I have used this link before to try other parts out, but its useful to look over things again.

The mission statement would also go hand in glove with Chris gibsons craft seen in company with F-111s over the north sea.

Maybe it never was a recon aircraft, but as a maritime strike platform as this engineer proposes.

If you were flying over a spot in the GIUK gap at Mach 6, you could do a 150 or 200 mile diameter turn – which is perfect for interdiction, because you wanted the ship or whatever you were tracking to be inside the turn. So as you banked up to do the turn, your sensors would be pointing right straight down at the ground.

Many may say 'so what - you used this before. But I disagree.

hypersonic research McDonnell

I understand you may think I am jumping all over the place, back and forth through the time line, crossing over myself at times, and you may be right, but, at the end of the day as more and more springs to mind I do like to look at them and add to my thread.

A pic. Classic 'aurora' shape or what ? I'd love to see what Chris Gibson has to say about the shape of this airframe.

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 07:37 PM
reply to post by LateApexer313

Or he may just shoot you and claim national security . . . . .

Don't bug him too hard OK ? hmmmm ? we need living witnesses, not deadded ones.

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 08:33 PM

Time line attempt time. But first let me show this quote.

In an ideal world, ament scientific and technological
research would build upon the foundation laid by past
generations of researchers. For whatever reason, perhaps
hecause of the temporal disconnect resulting from the near total
hiatus in supersonic and hypersonic research from the
early 1970s to the start of the NASP program in the mid
198Os, today's younger researchers appear to the author to
be generally unfamiliar with much of the prior work in this
arena. In this paper, some of the work performed at GASL
in the 1960-73 time frame is reviewed and appropriate
literature references supplied. It is the author's belief that
many of the problem perplexing current (younger)
investigators, were substantially resolved 20 to 30 years ago.
The hope is that this and a companion paper (ref. 1) will
serve to reconnect today's research to the earlier work done

American institute of aeronautics

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 09:07 PM
The above quote got me thinking, and I think I may just have the answer to some thing thats been puzzling me ever since I started this thread.

OK, bear with me.

American Anti-Gravity

This link is from a senior hypersonic researcher from McDonnell aircraft Corp.

We clearly see that his design team and two other major defense corporations are working on hypersonics as future war fighting weapons.

Then every thing goes dead in the early 1970s. Stone cold dead. Killed before it got off the ground.

It is not until the mid 1980's we again hear or begin to hear rumours of 'hypersonic' aircraft.

FAS hypersonic

Part of the national space plane effort in America... The AGAIN it dies, stone cold dead. Hypersonics is defunct once again.

Now... early 1990s onwards we see yet ANOTHER effort to bring hypersonics in from the cold.

Flight Global hypersonic engines

and the Hypersoar project...


Then, the real creme de la creme . . . . NASA cracks MHD math, the LoFLYTE design is established and so are the engines...

This leads us to todays X-51C, FALCON, SR-72 blackswift, RATTLRS ect ect.

Question. Why the duplication of efforts, and why the sudden stoppage ? why the lack of continuity and just how was all that talent and promise killed so easily ?

because folks.....

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 09:11 PM
reply to post by Dan Tanna

Ack! He might run me off the track during the race!! I never thought of that lol...I will bug him AFTER the race

Luckily your paranoia was in effect when mine wasn't

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 09:24 PM

and why again did they go 'soft' and cancel yet another hypersonic airframe in the 'orient express' ?

They had an internal 'furball' over who got funded. The 'low and slow' stealth airframes against the 'high and fast' hypersonic cheer leaders.

One was a 'maybe' war winning technology that was little understood and VERY mistrusted. Hypersonics was 'too advanced' for alot of generals in the airforce at the time.

(If you followed my thread you would of read the link that I got that from - certain Generals despised the hypersonic efforts).

The other let Generals have war winning technology quickly, in 'airframes they understood' and.... They had pilots.

This has been nothing about technology incapacity. There is ample PROOF that hypersonics was doable easily in the early 1970's.

This was about funding for airframes with men in, and technology that although unusual was not so 'scary'.

I concur that yes i do believe a 'limited' test bed airframe or two were built, were flight tested, were seen over certain areas of the globe, but this effort was limited.

Not until recent times has three things occured.

1) low and slow stealth is getting easier to detect.

2) Plasma physics and advanced computing has made work on these projects 1000 times easier.

3) The Air Force has leadership that sees this technology as both War winner AND life savers that can be launched and recovered from airbases in the USA.

Stealth is having one last swan song in the 2018 effort - A superb technological machine it will no doubt be, but........

The 2035 Air Force will be more Buck Rogers than Biggles.

In short... 2035 global strike will launch from the USA, hit its targets and recover to mainland USA - No forward base needed or wanted.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 09:44 PM
So...thats my take on it all. Stealth versus Hypersonics, and hypersonics lost.

Skip to the future again... This first image is from an official NASA Pdf file.

and this model.... Looks very familiar !

Jumping roos.... A potential Lockheed hypersonic airframe with a lockheed x-33 look alike riding piggy back....

Now... where have we heard about piggy backed airframes before ???

posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 12:09 AM

Exellent work Dan! Starred.

posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 07:11 AM
......... So - We have the NASA Pdf, we have a strange model of this 'potential' Lockheed airframe... but do we see this shape in any Lockheed airframes that are planned ?

Lets go back in time a little bit to the Polecat roll out. No bear with me becasue this has alot to do with it.

Look at the wall behind the flag.

That sleek dart like long nose, all black and highly swept...Now, NASA have painted it white, the model has it black... so lets have a good rummage around the web to see what we can find that looks any thing like this pic...

FAS B-3 gallery

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