A hypersonic puzzle.

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posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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I was surfing UFO sights when I came across a schematics drawing. Its startling similarity to the HyTECH airframe can be seen straing away. The same curved surfaces, the inlet .. Just this gives a possible scale to the project. Yes it is conjecture, but i find the similarities worthy of it being borne in mind.

Here, have a look.

Hypersonic airframe



So - Gas Pipe, Fast mover, aurora... i'm looking into some sighting dates emailed to me, and ill add what i find later tonight.



LoFLYTE wind tunnel model. Spooky similarities !

Dan.


edited to fix link.

[edit on 6-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]




posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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Lets have a little look at the 1999 sighting from a mountain overlooking Groom Lake.

dreamland resort

The audio link is from the tower at groom giving clearence for 'fast mover' to take off.

Now on the page there is an artists impression of what was flying that morning in 1999.


Remember that prior to this a high / fast / PDWE craft was heard and contrails seen 8 years earlier.

and then again in 2002 a 'fast mover' is recorded asking for clearence to land. This time a Janet aircraft is told to wait in order for the 'fast mover ' to use the runway.

Dreamland resort

The link is a transcript but you can listen to the audio too.


Here is an interesting bit of text



As NASP began to build up steam for its air-breathing work, in the late 1980s the SCIENCE REALM effort was followed by the HAVE REGION program, to complement ongoing air-breathing work in the NASP program.


FAS

This is early 1980's using 1970's technology. Now, we already have PROOF that the US defence dept. will duplicate and hide black projects behind white, and / or starta white project, call it failed and hide the black down tight. oh and........

HAVR REGION ? sounds like its from the same stable as the people who brought us HAVE BLUE. Lockheed Martin Skunk Works. Interesting.

So is this little bit of text.




Noted aerospace analyst Wolfgang Demisch, of First Boston Company, suggested that the $10 billion program would result in the production of about 30 aircraft. More recently, Kemper Security analyst Lawrence Harris concluded that Lockheed was involved in a "... hypersonic replacement for the Mach 3 plus SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft".

"Circumstantial evidence suggests that this project has been underway since 1987 and that a first flight occurred in 1989... Aurora could be operational in 1995, six years after the probable first flight."


FAS

So there we have it. First flight in 1989 EXACTELY as our eye witnesses state. By Lockheed Martin just as I propoded it to be after piecing together the loFLYTE and HyTECH links to LM skunk Works.

And operational in 1995 - well - thats also interesting as it also coincides with the eye witnesses from around the world who have seen a fast high flying airframe shaped like our LM bird.


I don't belive for one minute that this airframes not operational, as we have enough circumstantial evidence and eye witness accounts to make a strong case that this craft is not only developed and tested, but also fully operational. Where is it based ? Groom lake ? maybe, but i'm off to follow a email about the Kwajalein atoll airbase.



[edit on 6-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 06:16 PM
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This next little bit is about materials for hypersonic craft, and also backs up what i have been trying to say all along. If a project in the white world gets canned or held back it is because there is a possible black world version.

Here, read this little extract.




A new Ultra High Temperature TPS material was to be flight tested by NASA's SHARP project for sharp leading edges, which was another outgrowth of the now cancelled Space Launch Initiative that featured the GTX RBCC project. This may be a superior alternative to RCC, depending on cost and structural strength. There are currently a few groups still working with the material HfB2-SiC (Hafnium diboride - Silicon Carbide) as well as ZrB2, zirconium diboride, which both offer durable thermal protection above 2000 degrees C. HfB2's melting point is around 3600 C. These materials can be extruded into fibers that are used to weave or wind the desired part shape, which is then pyrolyzed to remove the polymer. Wickman Aerospace, which was involved in the SHARP project, says this material provides distinct advantages for spaceplanes:


Reduction Of Aerodynamic Drag By 90%
Mach 7 at Sea Level Without Ablation
Mach 11 at 100,000 Feet Without Ablation
No Ionization Layer During Reentry
No Communications Blackout During Reentry
Active and Passive Sensors During All Phases of Reentry
Thermal Protection System Is In Pristine Condition After Reentry
Hemispherical Cross Range - Can Land At Either Pole From Equatorial Orbit
Rapid Response and Turn Around Between Missions
Affordable Vehicle and Operational Costs



from here.Hypersonic fuels and materials

(do read the entire article as its a fantastic read and very educational, talking about fuels as well as materials for skins).

MACH 7 at low levels with no damage to the materials ? thats insane
add to this that all sensors and systems are useable throughout the entire flight envelope !

Notice how it is rumoured that NASA cancelled SHARP as it possibly had duplicates in the black world already in use - mind boggling, it really is.

Oh and another thing of note - look at how a small company, working in the white world manages to pull of such an amazing technical feat and then gets canned.

Remeber the line from the military about ' pearls too precious to wear ?' I think this is just another one of those examples.

here is SHARP (artists impression)





Now, have a read from Wickman Aerospace themselves. Have a look what this SHARP was to be used for.




Wickman Spacecraft & Propulsion Company (WSPC) is working on developing a Spaceplane based on NASA's SHARP thermal protection system, which enables sharp edges on reentry vehicles. The initial application of the SHARP Spaceplane will be a hypersonic bomber capable of rapid, high launch rates to orbit to deploy Common Aero Vehicles (CAVs) or put satellites into orbit. This hypersonic space bomber will evolve into a larger spaceplane capable of carrying passengers.


Wickman Aerospace

[edit on 6-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 07:24 PM
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Don't link HAVE (as in HAVE BLUE and HAVE REGION) programs to the Lockheed (now Lockheed Martin) Skunk Works. The first word HAVE indicates where the funding comes from. It was mostly used for Air Force Systems Command (now AF Materiel Command) projects. It does not indicate which contractor, if any, is involved.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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Maybe so, but I sure as heck am going to assume lockheed built and fly this thing.




Lockheed's Skunk Works, now the Lockheed Advanced Development Company, is the most likely prime contractor for the Aurora aircraft. Throughout the 1980s, financial analysts concluded that Lockheed had been engaged in several large classified projects. However, they weren't able to identify enough of them to account for the company's income. Technically, the Skunk Works has a unique record of managing large, high-risk programs under an incredible unparalleled secrecy. Even with high-risk projects the company has undertaken, Lockheed has a record of providing what it promises to deliver


Too much money and too little to show means alot is hidden. It may be the manned 'Q' took alot of the funding, but until proven otherwise Im going to continue to presume Lockhhed Martin are the designers and builders.

Aurora page



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 08:11 PM
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Nothing personal but I really don't think this guy,who admittedly works for the Department of Defense would actually tell you the truth.Of course he will say enough to be convincing and than add in the 'disinformation' with the little bit of truth(like 5-10%).Thats how disinformation works.If you seriously think that right now,or even 20-30 years ago that we "Were not 'mature' enough in aerospace technology" to build a full working manned hypersonic craft or weapons platform,then think again.Hell, we had the 'SR-71',or 'A-12'(prototype) in the sixties,it is only logical to assume that in the next 30+ years we could make something that at least could fly the mere 1000 or so mph more required for a 'hypersonic' plane!That was then,now think what kind of wondrous air/spacecraft they have!



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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I don't belive for one minute that this airframes not operational, as we have enough circumstantial evidence and eye witness accounts to make a strong case that this craft is not only developed and tested, but also fully operational. Where is it based ? Groom lake ? maybe, but i'm off to follow a email about the Kwajalein atoll airbase.


Seems like its not so far fetched as it seemed - Here, have a look at this link from the early 1990's of eye witnesses reports from Machrinharish. So proof again that it was far more than 'just a test airframe'.




Guy Norris of Flight Magazine, who is based In Los Angeles, said last night that Aurora was being flown from a base in the Nevada desert to an atoll in the Pacific, then on to Scotland to refuel before returning to the US at night and that specially modified tanker aircraft flying from Britain are being used to top up Aurora's tanks with liquid methane fuel in mid-air.

People living nearby reported strange 'ear-splitting' noises and mysterious smoke rings in the sky earlier this year. As rumours grew of secret developments at the base, Archie Hamilton, the Defence Minister, told Parliament last month that the existence of, and any operations by Aurora were a "matter for the American authorities". A US Air Force spokesman yesterday refused to confirm or deny its existence.



So it skips across to 'an atoll in the Pacific - Guam and Kwajalein are both pacifc bases, and Guam would appear to be a better bet as we know it has facilities for the B-2 and U-2 aircraft as well as many other US combat and support aircraft. But the refueling is interesting due to its remote nature and lack of chances to be seen, but Kwajalein atoll is so remote, so unaccessable it would also be perfect. Perhaps we will never know for sure.

The last word has to go to kemper securities ( finacial analyst )


Kemper Securities, the a financial analysts, said up to $8 billion has already been spent on the project at Lockheed's "Skunk Works" in California


Aircrash

$8 billion - yep, i'm standing by my assumption that lockheeds the mover and shaker for the project. Seems all the fingers point that way too.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by jkrog08
Nothing personal but I really don't think this guy,who admittedly works for the Department of Defense would actually tell you the truth.Of course he will say enough to be convincing and than add in the 'disinformation' with the little bit of truth(like 5-10%).Thats how disinformation works.If you seriously think that right now,or even 20-30 years ago that we "Were not 'mature' enough in aerospace technology" to build a full working manned hypersonic craft or weapons platform,then think again.Hell, we had the 'SR-71',or 'A-12'(prototype) in the sixties,it is only logical to assume that in the next 30+ years we could make something that at least could fly the mere 1000 or so mph more required for a 'hypersonic' plane!That was then,now think what kind of wondrous air/spacecraft they have!


Dude, the evidence that he is 100% wrong is overwhelming. look at it all. If you sit back and take a good hard look at all of the pointers it shows overwhelmingly that this is a current operational aircraft.

All the info is there, we just have to take the time to sift through it and join it at the edges.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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Hahahahaha - lets have a look at this little beauty shal we ? A contrail caught on satellite coming from area 51, across Europe and towards Russia / China.

At about 8000 MPH.

Add to that the really clear and crisp donought / toroidal contrail picture in his hand and we have some extraordinary proof that this tech is used and sent in harms way.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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You guys seem to be sewing together a lot of unrelated elements to create a fantasy aircraft. There is no solid evidence that any such vehicle exists. There is much better circumstantial evidence that a one-off demonstrator might have been tested and no evidence whatsoever of an operational system.

The AURORA budget line item was confirmed to be money for B-2 manufacturing and testing infrastructure - facilities, not airplanes. "Blackstar" was a fiasco of bad reporting. Pure fantasy. An embarrassment to Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine, as described by a senior AW&ST editor.

You are also ignoring the fact that NASA and DoD are still spending billions on fundamental hypersonic research and development. Programs like FALCON, Blackswift, X-43, X-51, and RATTLRS represent the early phases of developing hypersonic vehicles, not follow-on work to proven, operational systems. My sources, who are well placed to know the facts, say that a hypersonic global flyer is still in the distant future. We are much closer to developing a hypersonic cruise missile.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 10:21 PM
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You guys seem to be sewing together a lot of unrelated elements to create a fantasy aircraft. There is no solid evidence that any such vehicle exists. There is much better circumstantial evidence that a one-off demonstrator might have been tested and no evidence whatsoever of an operational system.


################################
(reply) fantasy enough to leave a contrail at 8000 mph across the US, into Europe and over Russia / China. Thats not a one off demonstrator. That would be like sending the F-35B to Iraq.
################################




The AURORA budget line item was confirmed to be money for B-2 manufacturing and testing infrastructure - facilities, not airplanes. "Blackstar" was a fiasco of bad reporting. Pure fantasy. An embarrassment to Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine, as described by a senior AW&ST editor.



##################################
(Reply) Never mentioned BlackStar at all. As for the B-2 being the aurora line item, good . I don't like the name aurora BUT unless its real name comes out its all we have to get people thinking along our lines.
#####################################





You are also ignoring the fact that NASA and DoD are still spending billions on fundamental hypersonic research and development. Programs like FALCON, Blackswift, X-43, X-51, and RATTLRS represent the early phases of developing hypersonic vehicles, not follow-on work to proven, operational systems. My sources, who are well placed to know the facts, say that a hypersonic global flyer is still in the distant future. We are much closer to developing a hypersonic cruise missile.


##########################################
(Reply) And your ignoring the the fact that top brass in the US stated that they would rather hide their projects than use them for Captain Joe on the ground because they are so valuable and they don't want them seen.

Also it can be seen that so many people world wide have continued to see these craft, hear these craft live near where these craft are flown covertly from - to rubbish them is hypocrisy.

As for the projects at the minute - Well again it is shown that they would rather double / triple duplicate an effort than tell others about certain special access projects.

My vote after reading through / watching / piecing together is that what we see now is the white world being allowed to 'catch up' and 'show the pearls' so to speak.

The project duplication is also clearly shown in many of the links I have provided.

Lockheed Martin get my vote for a fully operational small special access project with small numbers of hypersonic craft available to highly select individual agencies.

Hell, in one link it is shown that a General from the air force didn't know jack squat about HAVE BLUE till it was unvieled as the F-117.
###############################################


[edit on 6-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]

[edit on 6-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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Not that this thread isn't interesting, but it seems like a lot of energy is being expended on dredging up information that has been well known for a decade and a half. Bill Sweetman's book "Aurora: The Pentagon's Secret Hypersonic Spyplane" covers much of the white world/black world angle in addition to all of the red flags identifying Lockheed as the primary contractor. Like I said, it's not that the topic isn't interesting, it just seems to be beating a dead horse.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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How many people have read that book ? I haven't and i bet alot of others here haven't either.

How many people know about duplication being the name of the day instead of a streamlined honest procurement process ? i didn't thats for sure.

I never knew alot of things posted here, and heck if we use your logic all information one written about in one book would be burned bar that one source because to have more than one book is flogging a dead horse.

I am learning and enjoying writing this thread. its for me mainly, and if any one has anything to add i'd love it - but if no one else adds to it, well still I am enjoying my time.

Sorry you feel its a dead horse - maybe some thing else in ATS is more 'alive' for you to go post in.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 03:45 AM
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ex-LM employee

Nice. Two projects here that i never knew about. A stealth ship (looks real classy) and Navy Blue - a navalised F-117 design is what i can find on the web - modified and called a F117-N OR a corruption / mistake of HAVE Blue..

Then there is this picture. A small wedge shaped sleek dark aircraft.....




the guys got style for posting that.

[edit on 7-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 07:16 AM
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Trevor Paglen

Symbolism is important for those who wish to 'brag' or appear in the 'know', and these symbols often give away far more than they think, especially if those 'not in the know' pay attention.

Lets first examine the known Bird of prey Patch.




Bird of prey

We know now that the handle was the give away - the 'brag' if you like, the 'we know and you don't' membership of a secret elite.

Now, have a look at this patch, and yes the yellow lines have been drawn around what i feel is the most important shape. Why so ? because of psychology.

The wizard is 'them', the team who flew this great new plane. Any thing below the wizard is now in the past, hence they were the people who flew the bird of prey, but now they have a new toy.

Look at it. The shape is behind and above. Meaning that they are keeping it hidden from view but its the future, the goal, the achievment. Pointing upwards re-enforces this to the observer. This project is moving up (the BoP however is facing down and below. Its past and receeding, its their history, not the future).

Now you may think what has this got to do with this thread ? well, the future is shaped like a wedge - a sleek 60 degree wedge and it remains hidden. hidden but active.




I will have to get the book as symbology is a hobby and fascination of mine, and this is a classical text book example of a group using symbology to become or re-enforce a feeling of being an elite.

Folks, we are looking at the shape of a flying black project -all I need to do is buy the book and find out what date this man aquired that patch / when was the patch produced as that date will give us a really smart pointer to when this was designed and flown.

We can then scour peoples bios' and match possible pilots.... just like at the start of the thread







(please be aware that I have read what the author of 'if i told you you would have to be destroyed by me' has to say about the patch, but I feel that he missed many sigificant symobological meanings such as directions / hidden shapes / layering of the design ect. I have studied symbology for 20 years as a hobby and interest, and I feel this is a more significant patch than he realises. He also misses one major pointer. The patch is mocking those that now have to stay behind the mountains. groom lake watchers !)

[edit on 7-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by Shadowhawk
 



You guys seem to be sewing together a lot of unrelated elements to create a fantasy aircraft. There is no solid evidence that any such vehicle exists. There is much better circumstantial evidence that a one-off demonstrator might have been tested and no evidence whatsoever of an operational system.
The evidence is everywhere,what do you call the 'donut' shape contrails still being reported?What exactly do you think they do at Area 51?Are you really that ignorant to think we havn't progressed,but regressed technologically since making the SR-71,which was nearly hypersonic and likely had a top speed of Mach 4.(the top speed is still classfied,as well the ceiling)


The AURORA budget line item was confirmed to be money for B-2 manufacturing and testing infrastructure - facilities, not airplanes. "Blackstar" was a fiasco of bad reporting. Pure fantasy. An embarrassment to Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine, as described by a senior AW&ST editor.


Confirmed by who,the government?I'm sure it was bad reporting(to the government)since it exposed a secret program.Do you really trust the word of these people,whos job it is is to lie to you about such things??!!


You are also ignoring the fact that NASA and DoD are still spending billions on fundamental hypersonic research and development. Programs like FALCON, Blackswift, X-43, X-51, and RATTLRS represent the early phases of developing hypersonic vehicles, not follow-on work to proven, operational systems.

Again,says who?The government?You are not listening to what we are saying about the 'White'world covering for the 'Black',NASA is a crock of s**t,just a cover,the real space program is the USAF.Also just because a technology has been made doesn't mean that they stop testing it and trying to make better models!Which could likely explain FALCON,Blackswift,etc.


My sources, who are well placed to know the facts, say that a hypersonic global flyer is still in the distant future. We are much closer to developing a hypersonic cruise missile.


Than did they tell you this?

{Brahmos-2 (India/Russia) (2013) }BAPL is contemplating a hypersonic mach 8 version of the missile, named as the BrahMos 2. BrahMos 2 will be the first hypersonic cruise missile and is expected to be ready by 2012-13.[9] The laboratory testing of the missile has started.[10]

Another, longer ranged variant is also being considered, although joint development would not be possible, since Russia is a signatory to the MTCR.


I think if Russia/India have working prototypes for a hypersonic missile than surely the United States(who admittedly is at least 20 years ahead of anyone else in aerospace) has working systems
Wiki


Imagine having the ability to strike anywhere in the world within one hour. The X-51 is an amazing hypersonic cruise missile that travels 600 miles in just ten minutes (approximately 3600 MPH or Mach 5).
Traveling as fast as 13,000 mph, the warheads are filled with scored tungsten rods with twice the strength of steel. Just above the target, the warheads detonate, showering the area with thousands of rods-each one up to 12 times as destructive as a .50-caliber bullet. Anything within 3000 sq. ft. of this whirling, metallic storm is obliterated.

Compared with the Tomahawk Missile which travels at a mere 550 MPH, the X51 gives the US the ability to strike enemies quickly before they can evade. As U.S. Strategic Command’s deputy commander Lt. Gen. C. Robert Kehler puts it, the goal of the X51 is “to strike virtually anywhere on the face of the Earth within 60 minutes.”

The power of this weapon once it reaches its unfortunate target is amazing.
Source


Well placed to know the facts they 'need to know' and then proceed to tell you(the ones that know)a lie saying"We are decades from that".Thats why these projects are called 'top secret',are you in the military or do you have special clearance??I think not,so why would they tell you the truth?



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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This thread is becoming increasingly disappointing. The tone is less like that of researchers and more like religious fanatics.

Dan, the graphic you posted that supposedly illustrates Lockheed Skunk Works projects appears to have been cobbled together from a variety of unrelated graphics. The F-117A looks suspiciously like one that has appeared in Wings magazine and at least one book. The P-38 was not a Skunk Works product; it predated the existence of Lockheed's Advanced Development Projects division. The "AURORA" wouldn't be included in a real Lockheed graphic, mainly because it doesn't exist but also because the name goes with a B-2 budget line item, as I have said. The "NAVY BLUE" is obviously HAVE BLUE with the wrong name (more evidence that the graphic is bogus). The navalized F-117N had a much different configuration. There are many pictures available on the Internet.

I'm also not sure why you suggested that the person who posted the graphic is an ex-Lockheed employee. He never claimed such, just had he had worked for organizations called "skunk works." Although a registered trademark of Lockheed Martin Corporation, the term has also taken on generic usage when referring to a particular management style.

Dan, be careful about reading too much information into patch designs. There is good data to be had but over-interpretation is like looking for pictures in the clouds. After a while you can see anything you want.

And jkrog08, if you want to know what I think is going on at "Area 51," just read my articles on www.dreamlandresort.com (including the one from which the test pilot photo at the beginning of this thread was taken). You will learn a great deal about actual, confirmed black projects and the pilots who flew them. One of the classified demonstrators I wrote about led to a project that is being flown now.

The SR-71 was not nearly hypersonic. It's hard to believe that myth still gets passed around. The performance characteristics of the Blackbird family of aircraft has long since been declassified and is well known. I should know; I literally wrote the book on it.

All Blackbird variants were designed to obtain maximum cruise performance around Mach 3.2 at altitudes from 74,000 to 85,000 feet. The external configuration, engine air inlet system, powerplant, and fuel sequencing were optimized at Mach 3.2 and the airplane attained true airspeeds near 1,850 knots. According to the SR-71 pilot’s handbook (flight manual), Mach 3.17 was the maximum recommended cruise speed for normal operations. The pilot, however, could increase speed to Mach 3.3 as long as the engine compressor inlet temperature did not exceed 427 degrees C. Speeds exceeding Mach 3.3 were occasionally recorded during test flights, but these operations put excessive thermal stress on the airframe.

Designed to fly as high as 90,000 feet, the Blackbirds typically operated between 70,000 and 85,000 feet, altitudes at which they could carry a useful sensor payload and fuel supply. An Air Force crew set an official world altitude record in the SR-71A on 28 July 1976, while cruising at 85,069 feet. Though seemingly impressive, this record already had been broken unofficially during Category II (Performance) testing when the fourth SR-71A (Article 2004), with a gross weight of 80,000 pounds, reached a cruising altitude of 86,700 feet. During one Category II test flight Article 2004 reached the upper right-hand (maximum) corner of the performance envelope, achieving Mach 3.22 and an altitude of 89,650 feet. The A-12, a lighter airplane due to its single crew station, was capable of attaining higher operating altitudes than the SR-71. On 14 August 1965, a CIA pilot flew Article 129 to a maximum cruising altitude of 90,000 feet during a test flight.

The AURORA line item has been confirmed as funding for B-2 infrastructure by several sources, public and private. You don't know anything about my sources or the context in which I get my information so you shouldn't accuse anyone of lying.

You are also completely ignorant, jkrog08, of the nature of NASA, the various U.S. space programs, and fiscal realities in general. You sound like one of those conspiracists who think that all publicly available information is a lie and all inside sources providing information that doesn't agree with your world view are liars.

The U.S. does not yet have operational hypersonic cruise missiles. The X-51 is a scramjet research vehicle that has not yet been tested. Engine tests have taken place. Antenna testing is underway. The vehicle is under construction. I designed the program patch. But, it hasn't flown yet. According to one of my best sources in the field of hypersonics, a weaponized derivative of the X-51 is a very promising candidate for the first U.S. hypersonic cruise missile.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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Look, you know why I was, (note: WAS) enjoying this ? because it doesn't matter that I don't work for some super duper test research company, or even any to do with aviation, I was just sat having a nose around the web at a topic thats new to me, findinmg little pieces that were new to me, making me think 'what if' and 'could there actually be enough to make a strong case'...


I didn't think this was flogging a dead horse, nor did i think i was seeing pictures in clouds, I just thought I was contributing to ATS by making a thread that actually made people go 'yeah ok thats possible, it could be'.

Guess some one better just scan this 'Bill Sweetman' book onto ATS and ill stop giving a damn about trying to make a decent 'whats possible' thread.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowhawk
This thread is becoming increasingly disappointing. The tone is less like that of researchers and more like religious fanatics.






Thats so way out of order its unbelievable.



posted on Jun, 7 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowhawk
You are also completely ignorant, jkrog08, of the nature of NASA, the various U.S. space programs, and fiscal realities in general. You sound like one of those conspiracists who think that all publicly available information is a lie and all inside sources providing information that doesn't agree with your world view are liars.


The fact that duplicate / triplicate / quadrupled efforts have happend is beyond doubt. That they would hide alot and fudge monies from projects to hide a more secret research effort it also with out doubt - Its all clearly stated in the links that they do, have, will use deciet and camouflage in the fiscal sense to hide their crown jewels.





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