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A hypersonic puzzle.

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posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:27 PM
I first put forward this idea as part of the ATS member Intelgurl's project Blackswift - However, after it was pointed out to me that my suppositions were nothing at all to do with Blackswift as it was a completely seperate air vehicle, I will post a seperate thread for peoples consideration.

First off please let me introduce into the thread a test pilot. This test pilot has flown at least 7 as yet still highly classified airframes, and in one of these airframes he holds the 'altitude record' in. Wether it is the all time record or just for that airframe, we don't know for sure, but its an unusual cryptic reference to contain in your biography.

Daniel R Vanderhorst.

Read more here.


So, we have a pilot who holds the altitude record in a still high classified airframe. OK, thats not much to go on, we need an engine for the test vehicle.

And we actually have one.

a hybrid pulse-detonation air-breather/rocket in conjunction with US company Adroit Systems, which has tested an experimental propulsion tube. Bushnell says that such compressorless engines produce toroidal vortices, but will not comment on strange contrails associated with the "Aurora" - the much-rumoured US military replacement aircraft for the Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird.

read this fascinating article here. Do make sure you take note that this engine is not talked of as a maybe, but as a concrete fully working system.

Hypersonic flight

Note that this company Adroit systems has an engine, a PDWE (Pulse detonation Wave Engine) that produces toroidial vortices. right, thats a doughnut shape to us lay people. Hang on, isn't there witnesses to a doughnut shaped contrail ?

Lets go see what the eye witnesses have to say about this! and there are many very credible witnesses, people whos testimony is solid when we compare it to what we know so already.

Eye witnesses.

"Observers...tell of a swift, high-altitude light that accompanies the pulsing noise....the light moved from horizon to horizon -- well over 100 miles -- in under a minute."

A swift high altitude light going at over 100 miles within a minute. OK so lets do the math on this, and we come out with a MACH of 7.88 or there abouts.

100 miles a minute being 6 thousand miles an hour meaning MACH 7.88. A very easily attainable and manageable speed with the facilities and materials available to them.

another states that..

"People living nearby reported strange ear-splitting noises and mysterious smoke-rings in the sky early this year."

Again we have a seperate refernce to our toroidial exhaust plumes emitted by the Adroit Systems engines.

another stated..

"... strange, loud pulsating roar... unique... a deep pulsating rumble that vibrated the house and made the windows shake... similar to rocket engine noise, but deeper, with evenly timed pulses."

Thats a PDWE alright. Evenly space detonations create a smooth flight which gives us another credible witness to this airframe being a reality.

But, we need an airframe developer.... Step forward lockheed Martin Skunk Works.

Yes, i realise they deny having built the air frame, but there is a craft called LoFLYTE developed and owned by a former Senior design manager from LM.

In the white world they have only a small scale test model available... but, we see here that they had in the white world a MACH 10 model 80 % complete. 80 % complete in the white world ? could it be that this went deeply black as soon as it went back to Lockheed Martin ? I believe so. This important technology is termed wave riding, where the aircraft rides its own hypersonic shock wave to attain immense speed and altitude. LoFLYTE is that wave riding design and technology.

So we have the possible test pilot, we have the engine designers, we have the airframe designers and builders, all we need to know is has any one else seen it outside of America ? the answer is yes.

"Donuts-on-a-rope contrails produced by an unknown high-speed, high-altitude aircraft have been reported throughout the U.S. and Europe, suggesting that the classified "pulser" is no longer confined to a test range... In late January, a similar contrail -- described as a "coiled spring" -- was seen over Scotland behind a very fast aircraft flying east to west. The distinctive contrails have been spotted during daylight hours over Portland, Ore.; Washington Dulles International Airport, Va.; Denver, Colo.; and Edwards AFB, Calif."

So folks, I put it out there that here we have enough eye witness reports to substantiate the possible fact that Adroit systems engine technology was married to Accurate Automations airframe design (LoFLYTE) developed to a full scale manned air test vehicle by no other than Lockheed Martins own skunk works.

It was then flight tested over the United States and European airspace and has been successfully hidden from the white world behind a smoke screen of white world projects that have developed alot slower than would of been expected by companies that appear to be far too small to develop such exotic technology - it is when you look at these companies and their design teams you see that they are almost hand in glove with the large classified test and research arms of major corporations.

Thanks for your time reading this, and look forward to your thoughts and comments.


posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:42 PM

This is the white world wind tunnel test model picture of LoFLYTE. Look at how similar it is to the eye witnesses who have seen the 'Aurora'.

Now, as above I stated that i feel that it went black, an airframe /airframes were developed, it was rolled out over the USA and Europe for testing and then slipped off the radar. Why ? I actually think that they want more of these airframes rather than the small handful they have, and that soon we will see the 'white world' version of it on the ramps and in the skies of Groom Lake.

You may also ask 'why the time lag' and thats a good question until you take a look at the technology involved.

In the late 1980s and early 1990's this was 40 years ahead of anything else in the sky - even today we struggle to comprehend at the technological marvel of engineering it is.

Roll this airframe out say in 2015 and you are STILL 20 years ahead of anything that your enemies or potential enemies could field in the next decade.

One last thing to note.

When the UK MoD unclassified its UFO files it had a page on it with KNOWN US projects. Two of those were blacked out as they were still highly classified.......

Its there, watching, just waiting for the black world curtain to slip so it can be brought into the white world light.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:34 PM
Great post Dan! A over view and possible time line that should make all who read do some digging. Hopefully I can add something in the future.

One question that I have that wasn't clarified from a previous thread is the fact that the LO and HI FLTYE airframes and models where said to be based off of the shape of a Mach 10 "airframe concept". All public testing was done at low speeds with models that wouldn't of stood up to the heat of mach 10 flight.

What you've presented in possible as you even said would be black therefore that much harder to prove. Must say that it is a strong what if case.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:19 PM
I heard of this 'Pulse Detonation' aircraft before.Some call it the Aurora,I don't know if that is the actual term for it but about 11 years ago I was talking to someone who claimed to be 'privy'to 'ultra'top secret technologies and programs.What he told me was that this craft that everyone calls the 'Aurora' and alot of the 'triangular UFOs'are actually one craft(a fleet of them actually).Apparently it utilizes two kinds of propulsion(atmospheric and 'warp'(I say warp because it is the best way to describe the drive system)and is largely a hybrid of reversed engineered alien technology and ours.The craft, as was described to me is essentially 'driven' from the front(as in the alien drive system exerts force to in front of the craft to propel it by 'constricting space in front and expanding space behind it'.The inside of the craft has a total life support system an is able(obviously)to enter and exit the vacuum of space at will.For the 'conventional'propulsion for inside atmospheres it utilizes some said technology(PDWE)I've also heard rumors(from another source)that the fuel used(for atmospheric flight) is some type of 'Hydrogen slush'.The source never mentioned to my knowledge what fuel was used.Apparently this craft was flown to about a dozen military bases throughout the world per year on a undefined cycle.I happened to live by one of the bases it came to and every morning(right at sun-up)for about 2-3 months you would be awoken by the mysterious roar of something sounding like a jet engine warming up and then taking off.What was weird was you never saw it,just heard it(except one morning I did get a glimpse of something 'shining'in the sky,moving rapidly just after I heard the 'takeoff'.Lets keep in mind this was a air national guard base that DID NOT house fighter jets regularly and has many 'odd'buildings and rumors of underground facilities.I asked why at a national guard base and he said'Because people don't look there'which was/is a good point.As far as how fast it can go in space,I don't know.........I have heard 4 times lightspeed from other sources.Again I'm not saying this is true,but putting it out here since this thread is discussing the 'Aurora'.

[edit on 6/5/2008 by jkrog08]

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:20 PM
Just a thought. Why don't you get a group together and Form an ATS research group for this topic over in the research forum?

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:51 PM
Reply to FredT:Sounds good to me,the 'Aurora' is always interesting.

[edit on 6/5/2008 by jkrog08]

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:57 PM
having more people to ferret out things is always good, and if it brings new ideas or adds to the time line and picture i am more than willing to add my thoughts and time.

Thats why i started this thread - its a puzzle but with bits scattered far and wide.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:58 PM
So did the 'test pilot' reveal anything else about the craft(s)he tested?

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 08:11 PM
I find another thing that my source said about these alien craft interesting.He said that these alien ships don't have a definite shape and that they constantly change shape to match the 'enviroment'It is some kind of 'adaptive alloy' the craft are made of.If true it could provide a answer to overcoming the extreme heat and other forces involved in Mach 10+.Another thing that was hinted at was some kind of 'mass manipulation'or 'mass compaction' that can allow a ship to appear small or be small on the outside but be significantly larger on the inside,so kind of 'dimensional differential'.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 08:15 PM
No thats not fair. This isn't about alien technology, this is about man made terrestrial air vehicles made, produced and flown by humans.

There is no alien slant at all to this - its a cold hard look at a possible time line and characteristics of a mach 7 - 10 airframe.

Please, keep aliens / reversed engineered alien tech for another thread. I believe in alien craft, alien tech, but thats not for this thread.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 08:15 PM
No but I just found a monumental lie from the US Government regarding the hypersonic time line.

I have to re-write it as ATS went down and i lost it mid type.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 09:31 PM
Fair enough.......So did the pilot say anything else?Have you ever seen the 'donut'contrail?

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:41 PM
The aircraft in which the pilot "holds the altitude record" is equipped with internal weapons bays (like the F-117A and B-2). He did weapon separation tests and tests with modified landing gear. There is absolutely no indication whatsoever that it was a high-speed aircraft. We have no data about the speed capabilities, powerplant, airframe manufacturer, or anything else beyond the sparse details given. From these, we can deduce that it was capable of attaining reasonably high altitudes and was most likely designed for stealth. BTW, I know the pilot personally. Of the seven classified aircraft he flew, only one has yet been declassified.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by Shadowhawk]

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:48 PM

I have been plugging away at the keyboard and I have come across a massive discrepency within the defence / research community regarding their time lines of hypersonic flight.

OK, first have a read of this - This article is all 'ground test' this, 'ground test' that. Nothing at all has been flown or developed.


It seems that in 2001 this tech wasn't even at the starters blocks let alone an air test vehicle.

So.... how come we have 90,000 feet airquakes at MACH 5 to 6 in... 1991.

Yes thats 1991. Again its the same dates as my first post stated, but this is at 90 THOUSAND FEET ! and MACH 5 to 6 !

Two years later, the Blackbird was retired. In June 1991, the first in a series of unexplained shock waves rolled across the Los Angeles basin, rattling doors and windows and making people think of earthquakes. But they were not earthquakes, and the military adamantly denied that any of its vehicles caused the booms. In May of this year, I consulted with Dom Maglieri, an ex-NASA sonic-boom expert who has played a key role in the development of low-sonic-boom aircraft. We studied 15-year-old seismograph data from the California Institute of Technology, whose uniquely sensitive sensors could actually track the booms. â€The data showed something at 90,000 feet, Mach 4 to Mach 5,†Maglieri says now. The booms did not look like refracted, â€over the top†booms, as other reports had indicated-booms from aircraft miles away that had traveled up through the atmosphere and bent down toward Los Angeles. The booms looked like direct overflights by a supersonic


and this........

The existence of high-supersonic aircraft projects has been inferred from sighting reports, the repeated, unexplained sonic booms over the US and elsewhere, the abrupt retirement of the SR-71 and from the focus of white-world programs, such as NASP and follow-on research efforts such as the USAF's HyTech program. The latter have consistently been aimed at gathering data on speeds in the true hypersonic realm - well above M6, where subsonic-combustion ramjets give way to supersonic-combustion ramjets (scramjets) - implying that speeds from M3 to M6 present no major unsolved challenges.


MACH 6 presents no unsolved challenges BEFORE 2000 ! thats because Lockheed and Adroit systems figured it out and ran with it.

So, the data doesn't lie, but the military establishment does it seems. fair enough, they want the wraps kept on their technology i can understand that, but so blatantly and badly ?

Right, so we see that this is at 90.000 feet. Rememebr our test pilot from the first post ? looks like he has the worlds altitude record firmly under his belt.

Now, lets have a look at a flight test patch. Here it is.

Now does that look familiar at all ? yes it does. This is the patch for the MACH 8 full speed version of LoFLYTE. They just changed the name from LoFLYTE to HyTECH.

Ingeniouse, hide it in plane sight. (pun intended).

So, we do have a test pilot who I am 95 % sure flew this mach 8 monster high over continental USA causing airquakes, and maybe even into europe and further afield, we do have the people who took it to fruitation (Lockheed) and now we have caught the defense establishment in a bare faced lie.

The HyTECH patch is from early 1990's. BEFORE even they admit the engines were ready.... in the white world that is.

Now, here is the final nail in the coffin. People always say 'but if they had it they would let commanders in the field use it to save lives'.

That is a 100% false hood and I can prove it. Step forward the special access gate keeprers. Lets see what they have to say.

A senior officer on the Joint Staff remarked that "we still treat certain capabilities as pearls too precious to wear - we acknowledge their value, but because of their value, we lock them up and don't use them for fear of losing them".


That report is damming because it shows that the US would rather duplicate technology than share it out, would rather hide it from commanders in the field than us it at ground level, and would rather have duplicated technologial efforts kept secert from teams working on the same problems.

In short people I think we have the whole answer.

The NRO wanted a space plane for real time quick targetting and recce use. A massive prog went under way to provide it and they got it in early 1990s and it was hidden from every one but the tier I user.

Now, we see the rest of the world catching up to what is already established technology with all of this white world research and development.

In short, what needed to be shared and Aurora stayed hidden even from those who needed it. Thats why the time line is wonky, the black was working far far faster and harder than the white and they just confused themselves with all of their secrecy.

The data doesn't lie - this was well up and running almost 10 years before the white world effort even started.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:53 PM
reply to post by Shadowhawk

90,000 feet and MACH 5 to 6 is high speed to me.

Could you please name all the aircraft he flew ? i would deeply appreciate it.

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 12:49 AM

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
The aircraft in which the pilot "holds the altitude record" is equipped with internal weapons bays (like the F-117A and B-2). He did weapon separation tests and tests with modified landing gear. There is absolutely no indication whatsoever that it was a high-speed aircraft. We have no data about the speed capabilities, powerplant, airframe manufacturer, or anything else beyond the sparse details given. From these, we can deduce that it was capable of attaining reasonably high altitudes and was most likely designed for stealth. BTW, I know the pilot personally. Of the seven classified aircraft he flew, only one has yet been declassified.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by Shadowhawk]

OK i'll bite. Nor is there any indications that he DIDN'T go MACH 5-6 and do weapons release tests at the same time or later in the programme. The hypersonic LoFLYTE design is called that BECAUSE it is a stealth airframe - so he could of flown it, dropped a few weapons at mach 5-6 and had a fast nip about the sky and you wouldn't know about it unless you were part of the project.

Please do furnish me with those seven airframes he flew that no other journal / online resources knows have been de-classified. I'd love to do a wiki page on it if you can prove this and id be very grateful.

Edit # He flew the Tacit Blue project for Northrop.
fromDreamland resort

and believe me I have read alot of your posts, realise you have alot of knowledge about classified airframes, seem to have worked on some even, but do you know 100% that it didn't go fast and high ?

[edit on 6-6-2008 by Dan Tanna]

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 08:39 AM

Reports of plans for a high-performance piloted replacement for the SR-71 date back more than a decade. In 1979 it was reported that a:

"... Mach 4, 200,000-ft.-altitude aircraft that could be a follow-on to the Lockheed SR-71 strategic reconnaissance vehicle in the 1990s has been defined by the Air Force Aeronautical Systems Division and Lockheed."

As previously noted, reports of the existence of a successor to the SR-71 surfaced repeatedly during the debate over termination of the SR-71. Subsequent observations of mysterious aerial phenomena have been connected with the 1988 reports that Aurora was a Mach 6 stealthy reconnaissance aircraft that was being developed to replace the SR-71.

Apparently this has a call name of 'Senior Citizen'?!

According to another report, by mid-1992:

"... Aurora was being flown from a base in the Nevada desert to an atoll in the Pacific, then on to Scotland to refuel before returning to the US at night. Specially modified tanker aircraft are being used to top up Aurora's tanks with liquid methane fuel in mid-air... The US Air Force is using the remote RAF airbase at Machrihanish, Strathclyde, as a staging point... The mystery aircraft has been dropping in at night before streaking back to America across the North Pole at more than six times the speed of sound... An F-111 fighter bomber is scrambling as the black-painted aircraft lands, flying in close formation to confuse prying civilian radars."

>Aurora Advanced Aircraft Characteristics
Source Lockheed Sweetman Lockheed Boeing Boeing
Date 1985 1990 1990 1990 1990
Figure 1 2 3 4 5
Length - meters ? 35 30.6 26.0 42.7
Span - meters ? 20 13.6 / 25 14.7 13.5
wing area - m2 - 300 - - 95
Weights: tons
Empty ? 32.5 - 19.3 -
Fuel ? 44.0 - 19.5 12.6
Payload ? 2.0 - 1.5 -
Max T/O ? 78.5 - 40.3 34.5
Thrust - kN ? ? ? 267 ?
Fuel Methane MCH MCH LH2
Cruise - Mach 5 5-6 5 5.5 6
Ceiling - km 30 40 27 32 33
Range - km ? 17,000 1,900 5,000 27,750
MCH = methylcyclohexane
LH2 = liquid hydrogen

So apparently somethinghas been going on,thats nothing new,I would expect an 'unvieling'soon.

Table 2
Classified Aircraft Budget
Aurora Special
Update Program
FY86 FY86

1980 50
1981 123
1982 554
1983 217
1984 656
1985 -- 928
1986 80 84
1987 (2,272) 851 ( 139 )
1988 -- 121
1989 126
1990 122
1991 105
1992 162
1993 176
Millions of Dollars
Numbers in parentheses are FY86 projections
All others are actual appropriations

Probably the most compelling evidence for such flight tests are the series of unusual sonic booms chronicled above Southern California, beginning in mid to late 1991. On at least five occasions, these sonic booms were recorded by at least 25 of the 220 US Geological Survey sensors across Southern California used to pinpoint earthquake epicenters. The incidents were recorded in June, October, November, and late January 1991. Seismologists estimate that the aircraft were flying at speeds between Mach 3 and 4 and at altitudes of 8 to 10 kilometers. The aircraft's flight path was in a North North-East direction, consistent with flight paths to secret test ranges in Nevada. Seismologists say that the sonic booms were characteristic of a smaller vehicle than the 37 meter long shuttle orbiter. Furthermore, neither the shuttle nor NASA's single SR-71B were operating on the days the booms were registered.

One of the seismologists, Jim Mori, noted:

"We can't tell anything about the vehicle. They seem stronger than other sonic booms that we record once in a while. They've all come on Thursday mornings about the same time, between 6 and 7 in the morning."

These "skyquake" are a continuing phenomenon, with the most recent report over Orange County, CA coming on 20 July 1996. It is reported that the "quake" occurred around 3pm PST, fitting the "skyquake" pattern in the following respects:
It occurred in a coastal area.
Described as similar to an earthquake in some respects (rattling of loose objects, etc) but also like a boom (but no distinct double bang as far as is known).
Severe enough to light up government and media switchboards, but no known damage.
Not an earthquake (CalTech sensors saw nothing)
Local military bases deny any knowledge.
No known other source (eg explosion)
Intercepted radio transmissions are equally intriguing:

"On Apr. 5 (a Sunday) and Apr. 22, radio hobbyists in Southern California monitored transmissions between Edwards AFB's radar control facility (Joshua Control) and a high-altitude aircraft using the call sign "Gaspipe." The series of radio calls occurred at approximately 6 a.m. local time on both dates.

"Controllers were directing the unknown Gaspipe aircraft to a runway at Edwards, using advisories similar to those given space shuttle crews during a landing approach. The monitors recorded two advisories, both transmitted by Joshua Control to Gaspipe: "You're at 67,000, 81 mi. out," and "Seventy mi. out, 36,000. Above glide slope."

Reported sightings of unusual high performance aircraft are not confined to the Southwestern United States. More recently, such observations have also been reported in other parts of the United States, as well as in Europe. These reports are particularly intriguing because they are difficult to reconcile with an experimental test program, since there would be no reason for test flights to be conducted in Europe. Rather, these reports would have to be understood in the context of the deployment of an operational aircraft.

One unexplained set of observations was reported at Beale Air Force Base, the California facility that was long home to the SR-71. On two consecutive nights in late February 1992, observers reported sighting a triangular aircraft displaying a distinctive diamond-shaped lighting pattern, comprised of a red light near the nose -- similar to the F-117 configuration -- two 'whitish' lights near what would be conventional wingtips and an amber light near the tail. While the wing lights are reportedly much brighter than normal navigation lamps, they do not illuminate the aircraft's planform. Observers claim the vehicle's wing lights are approximately twice as far apart as those on the F-117, and nose-to-tail light spacing is about 50 percent longer than that on the stealth fighter.

Sounds like the 'Hypersonic Space Plane'concept,only military.............Long Range bomber anyone?Able to hit anywhere in the world in a few hours?


posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 09:49 AM
Tremendously interesting and well written post.

Flagged and starred.

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 10:07 AM
Since 1985, there have been at least seven and possibly more than 11 classified manned aircraft tested, as well as numerous unmanned vehicles. With very few exceptions (YF-113G, YF-24), I can't name any of them because those names have not yet been declassified. SENIOR CITIZEN was a project to develop a stealthy tactical transport. I don't know if a demonstrator ever flew. I have seen artist's concepts from Lockheed and Boeing.

One source who used to work at Area 51 has made some cryptic remarks about a one-of-a-kind high-speed demonstrator that used multiple forms of propulsion. Apparently it was fairly successful but later crashed.

I have no reason to believe there has yet been an operational hypersonic aircraft. The technology is not yet mature enough although it is getting there. A great deal of money is being spent on programs that will involve flying hardware, all unmanned unfortunately. A high-level Pentagon source told me there has not been any aircraft with the characteristics attributed to the mythical "Aurora." He should know. He has been intimately involved with hypersonic programs and has knowledge of the entire development timeline.

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 01:35 PM
reply to post by jkrog08

WOW JK - Thats amazing - Gas Pipe ? thats a most appropriate name - my thanks for adding that as it makes it doubly clear that yes it is out there so to speak.

As for those radio transmissions caught - The use of space guidance glide slope advice is very interesting indeed.

Its given me some thing else to have a look at.

Cheers, Daniel

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