The Four Bacab

Lately, I have been trying to back-track various religions of major civilized areas... ie, the Mayans, Egyptians, Sumerians, Indus Valley, etcetera, and so far, I have noticed that everything can be traced to ancient Sumeria, with the Chaldeans, with the exception of the Mayans. Now, today, however, I have found evidence of the Mayan culture's beliefs also having Sumerian origins.

That, though, isn't the concern of this thread. However, the thing that is of interest deals within Mayan legends. I'll give a brief outline, then get to the point.

The Mayans, although having numerous gods, held one high above all; Hunab-Ku, meaning Holy One, "the one living god, the greatest of gods".

He had a son by the name of Hun-Ytzamma (also known as Itzamna), who rose from the sea to settle in the land of these people. Ytzamma was able to raise the dead and cure the sick; in different South American cultures, he was also known as Zamna, the bringer of civilization. Eventually, after many generations, Itzamna died, and was buried near the sea from where he came.

Now, Ytzamma was of a race/group of beings known as the Bacab, of which there were a total of 4. The High God Hunab-Ku had placed his four children in the four corners of the globe, at different times.

Here is where it gets interesting.

In Sumeria, the prophet known as Zoroaster tried to spread the word of a one god; Zoroaster was of a virgin birth, his mother being impregnated by a beam of light from the heavens.

In Jerusalum, Jesus of Nazarath, too, brought the word of a One God; he too was of a virgin birth.

In Mayan texts, Hun-Ytzamma was the son of this High God (as was Jesus), and he, too, was of a virgin birth. Also, it must be known, that Ytzamma was also scourged, crowned with thorns, hung on a cross (with rope), died, and was reborn 3 days later. I don't know how Zoroaster died... from what I gathered, he left the world vowing to return in the end.

Now, before people jump to conclusions, the Mayans had a very christian style belief system before the Spaniards ever touched foot on their soil. The Mayans had already established:
1. The worshipping of the cross
2. A heaven (Yaxce) and a hell (Mitnal)
3. The High God Hunab-Ku is represented by having Roman features.
4. They practiced baptism and penance.
5. History of the Deluge, and their own Tower of Babel
6. Worshipped the Trinity: Father (Icona), Son (Bacab), and the Holy Spirit (Echuac)

I suppose it may be possible for an early contact being made between the Mayans and the Jewish people. After all, the Mayans were in power from 360 AD to 1537 AD... but I would like to think it was highly unlikely.
Anyway, to get back to the point...

If Jesus, Zoroaster, and Hun-Ytzamma were of the Bacab, who is the forth? Is there another predominate religious leader of a virgin birth teaching of a One God?

I don't have any links yet... this was all old fashioned research in the library... with actual books.

Could the 4th be Krishna of the Hindu religion??
just a thought, you'll have to research it more, but I think he too was supposedly a virgin birth.

Buddha was born of the virgin Maya after the Holy Ghost descended upon her.
The Egyptian God Horus was born of the virgin Isis; as an infant, he was visited by three kings.
In Phrygia, Attis was born of the virgin Nama.
A Roman savior Quirrnus was born of a virgin.
In Tibet, Indra was born of a virgin. He ascended into heaven after death.
The Greek deity Adonis was born of the virgin Myrrha, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. He was born "at Bethlehem, in the same sacred cave that Christians later claimed as the birthplace of Jesus." 4
In Persia, the god Mithra was born of a virgin on DEC-25. An alternate myth is that he emerged from a rock.
Also in Persia, Zoroaster was also born of a virgin.
In India, the god Krishna was born of the virgin Devaki.
Virgin births were claimed for many Egyptian pharaohs, Greek emperors and for Alexander the Great of Greece.
One source 5 is quoted as saying that there were many mythological figures: Hercules, Osiris, Bacchus, Mithra, Hermes, Prometheus, Perseus and Horus who share a number of factors. All were believed to have: been male.
lived in pre-Christian times.
had a god for a father.
human virgin for a mother.
had their birth announced by a heavenly display.
had their birth announced by celestial music.
been born about DEC-25.
had an attempt on their life by a tyrant while they were still an infant
met with a violent death.
rose again from the dead.

Almost all were believed to have:

been visited by "wise men" during infancy.
fasted for 40 days as an adult.

crap... that's alot of pregnant virgins! Oh well, time to start over...

Here are some links.

The Bacab

Zemna

Zoroaster

Jesus and Ytzamma Connection

*EDIT the last one is really interesting... should have checked it out before hitting library. Highly recommended!*

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by soothsayer]

*EDIT Took some more names of the list... turns out two were dieties, the third has no internet record other than name-dropping. Shame, WorldWatcher... copy-ing your list word for word. Tsk Tsk

WorldWatcher's List

EDIT PART 2- something's screwy... haven't been able to edit this post right for 20 minutes now! Anyway, this post had a copy of WW's list, with only Budda, Attis, Quirrnus and Indra remaining. I then came back and removed all but Budda. Wonder if this will post right...

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by soothsayer]

Originally posted by soothsayer
Now, today, however, I have found evidence of the Mayan culture's beliefs also having Sumerian origins.

Like in the Semitic languages and religions: The word for flood is Mayim. Plural of Mayah. This could mean that the Maya culture is far older than we know. There is also a place in South America called Ur, which has been called this since ancient times I hear. Also, according to the Book of Jubilees, Canaan was given land in the farthest West of Africa. No wonder Mosjeh used 40 years to cross the desert. It was the barren desert of Sah'rah he crossed, not the sand box of Egypt.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by Hamilton]

Originally posted by soothsayer
*EDIT Took some more names of the list... turns out two were dieties, the third has no internet record other than name-dropping. Shame, WorldWatcher... copy-ing your list word for word. Tsk Tsk

WorldWatcher's List

EDIT PART 2- something's screwy... haven't been able to edit this post right for 20 minutes now! Anyway, this post had a copy of WW's list, with only Budda, Attis, Quirrnus and Indra remaining. I then came back and removed all but Budda. Wonder if this will post right...

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by soothsayer]

lol...sorry for copying for the list, this isn't my field of expertise, just thought it would help in your search. what about krishna?? wasn't that a virgin birth??

Problem is, a study of the languages will lead you to quite different conclusions.
www.lib.umt.edu...

The ancient Egyptian language is a Hamito-Semitic language family:
www.sron.nl...

However, Sumerian is a NON-Semitic language. In fact, it's not related to any other language:
www.lib.umt.edu...

Aztec is one of the Macro-Penutian languages:
www.lib.umt.edu...

Worldwatcher... no big deal, was only having fun at your expense! The information did give me some helpful information, though, so all wasn't lost. Thanks!

Byrd... the languages really don't matter. People have translated information and languages for many many years. If anything, having distinct languages in different areas, while still having the same belief system (Mayan and Catholics) just confounds the issue.

www.essenespirit.com...

This one is pretty much a 'know all about' site for the Essenes, writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls. In it, you'll find the information showing the link between Hebrew and Chaldean religions.

The links above in the previous post will show you the connections to the Mayans and Hindus. If it isn't enough, (and I offer this to anybody) send me your email, and I'll send you a copy of the paper I'm working on that goes into a lot more, clearer, detail.

I'm only doing this for myself... it's a bit of a hobby/interest of mine. Just keep that in mind when you read the paper!

Originally posted by soothsayer
If Jesus, Zoroaster, and Hun-Ytzamma were of the Bacab, who is the forth? Is there another predominate religious leader of a virgin birth teaching of a One God?

Without agreeing to any of the above, I suggest you look into ancient Egyptian creational prophecies. Osiris fits the discription perfectly. Maybe he comes again and again. And that the similarities has to do with different calendars and different creational astrology based on strict models rendered in oaths as old as the Earth or even Light or the universe, different ages, rather than anything else. Jesjuah is the First and the Last. Standing right in the middle, hovering above the River of Life.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Hamilton]

The Bacab were mortals, born of the flesh to man. Gods and other dieties won't cut it... they had nothing to sacrifice in their beliefs.

It's more meaningful to have someone who can bleed and die for a cause than to have a god just saying "worship me".

Originally posted by soothsayer
The Bacab were mortals, born of the flesh to man. Gods and other dieties won't cut it... they had nothing to sacrifice in their beliefs.

It's more meaningful to have someone who can bleed and die for a cause than to have a god just saying "worship me".

Osiris was a mortal just like all the rest. He was executed Jesjuah style, went down to She'ol and became king of the underworld. Then he came back to life and ascended into Heaven. It was the very thing that he was a son of Heaven, he was prophetically predicted in the stars, and that he won the sceptre of She'ol and the thing that he ascended to his Love to rule with him sitting on his God's right side that made him a god. If you are an immortal god, you can't die in the first place. We all leave angelicy a couple of years after we are born, when we learn to talk, read and communicate and get the Spirit of knowledge. We are all like stars and constellations, and constellations of constellations borne by humans on the Earth, which is still in Heaven and in itself a star. We descend because Eve fell by the Tree of Wisdom, which may not have been a fall afterall, since Eve means life and her Family Tree would be then be the Tree of Life. In other words, When Eve ate, she ate directly from the branches of the Tree of Life, and she also gave Adam to eat. Did they really eat from the Tree of Life?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Hamilton]

Buddha was born of the virgin Maya after the Holy Ghost descended upon her.

WorldWatcher are you sure of this?

Buddha as in , Siddartha Guatama ? He was a mortal born of flesh and blood as a mortal.

I believe " Virgin Birth " is a more symbolic, now what it exactly symbolizes is beyond me. I have not dwelled to deeply within.

Deep