Why So Many Say They Will Go From Clinton to McCain?

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posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:41 AM
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Ever since Obama won the Democratic nomination there has been an onslaught of people claiming that Hillary supporters will flee the Democratic party and join John McCain.

To many this seems like insanity. What could make people who were such staunch supporters of Hillary Clinton and her policies cut and run to a candidate so dramatically different that those held by their original candidate?

The answers given by those who make the claim that they are indeed are going to make this switch have been, in my experience, incredibly weak, and based on little more than personal fancy. I have yet to see those claiming they are Clinton supporters making this switch offer up logical rationals based on political policy rather than personal ideology.

Well this morning I discovered a little gem that supports what I have been thinking in the back of my head, that many of these people are not in fact Clinton supporters but are in fact Republican shills.

Why, you ask, would Republicans be so interested in sending this message? Because Hillary R Clinton is poison to the Democratic party. I know this first hand as a child born into a fairly conservative family. I know that one thing they DETEST is the Clinton's. I mean they really really hate them, for what ever reason is irrelevant, the fact that they so vocally hate the Clinton's is something that always stuck in my mind.

So naturally when I herd people starting to say they were going from Clinton to McCain I was puzzled. What a strange switch, what could possibly motivate it? Then this morning I read this:



Veteran Republican fundraisers and strategists hope that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) can revive their party’s apathetic base even as her 2008 presidential campaign has reached its final hours. link


I read this opening line to this story and BING the light went off in my head. I believe that many of those saying "I am a Hillary Clinton supporter and I will not vote for Obama, I am voting for McCain!" are in fact people from other parties, mainly the Republicans, attempting to use this situation to their advantage.

It is widely considered that Clinton's actions over the last few days have been her attempt to secure a Vice Presidential seat for herself on the Obama ticket. The noise we are hearing about people leaving the party for McCain are political shills attempting to help secure her this position.

What would Republicans want her as VP you ask?



Republican insiders say that if presumptive Democratic nominee Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) selects Clinton as his running mate, it would energize the Republican base and fundraising. They say presumptive GOP nominee Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) would not have to work as hard to appease conservative voters if Clinton landed on the ticket. link


Whats more,



“Fundraising from our Republican conservative base would skyrocket, in my opinion, because she’s such a divisive figure in conservative Republican circles,” said Cesar Conda, who raised over $100,000 for President Bush in 2004 and was a top fundraiser to Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney (R) this cycle. “Putting her on the ticket would be the one thing to wake those donors up from their current doldrums.

“It would really be a godsend to McCain and the Republican National Committee [RNC],” said Conda, who will work to help McCain. link


So it comes down to political maneuvering. Many will tell me I am insane, and while this accusation is true, it has nothing to d with this issue. People will tell me I am just seeing conspiracy where there is none but this would not be the first such attempt by the Republican party this election cycle.



“We need Hillary,” Limbaugh declared on his show on February 26. “We need the soap opera. Hillary Clinton is J. R. Ewing, and her husband, Bill, is Sue Ellen. We need to keep this soap opera going, but we also need the chaos,” Limbaugh added.
In a segment entitled, “We Started Mrs. Clinton’s Slide, But Now We Need Her to Stay Alive,” Limbaugh argued that Hillary was now the Republicans’ best hope for victory in November. link


So dont be fooled folks, it really is nothing more than,



“I don’t think McCain would have to worry about our base anymore,” said Zarrelli, who does not expect Obama to tap Clinton. “They love to hate the Clintons, just as the Democratic base now seems to love to hate George Bush.” link


This is political maneuvering at its best, or worst. Sure some of the Hillary Clinton supporters will not vote for Obama, that is a given, but any idea that there will be a mass exodus from the Democratic party to the Republican party is a pipe dream, it simply will not happen.

edit: to add missing link.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by Animal]




posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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No doubt that some of them are, but the vast majority are not.

www.hillaryclintonforum.net...

Take a look through those forums, a really long look. Are those all Republican plants? Go there and accuse them of such and see how far you get.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Animal
 



Why So Many Say They Will Go From Clinton to McCain?


Probably because those Clinton voters are thinking 'white' before right.It is likely that there is some 'race issue'involved,atleast subconsciously.




[edit on 6/5/2008 by jkrog08]



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Animal
To many this seems like insanity.

To many more this seems like a very smart move.
Those lucky folks are not drinking the obama-koolaide.
Those lucky folks are smart enough not to smoke the hope-ium.
They are living fog-free.


What could make people who were such staunch supporters of Hillary Clinton and her policies cut and run to a candidate so dramatically different that those held by their original candidate?


The fact that Obama is a liar.
The fact that Obama is corrupt.
The fact that Obama has no experience.
The fact that Obama is a racist.
The fact that Obama offers NO change, NO hope and NO unity.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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I'm thinking they say that out of frustration being their person didn't win,look at Gloria Allred whining how if Hillary doesn't get elected it was a conspiracy against women,I think when smoke clears they will vote in their own party



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by jkrog08
.It is likely that there is some 'race issue'involved as well,atleast subconsciously.


OMG ... not another - you aren't voting for Obama so you must be racist.
Sorry but that's lame. Obama has given us all plenty of reasons not to vote for him.


Originally posted by Oldtimer2
,I think when smoke clears they will vote in their own party

Or perhaps they are putting America BEFORE party loyalty.
That would be refreshing.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I enjoyed reading your response, how about you try and talk about issues rather than merely relying on ad hominem attacks.


Your one line regurgitation of other peoples talking points is rather amusing though, thanks for that.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


When all else fails, accuse them of being racist.

Folks, that's a HUGE part of the reason why you are losing Hillary's supporters. Instead of listening to their misgivings, you label them.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by Animal
Your one line regurgitation of other peoples talking points is rather amusing though, thanks for that.

'other people's talking points'?? What in the world are you talking about? Those are my own words. I'm very capable of speaking on my own. :shk:

I posted facts. The REASONS why people are avoiding voting for him -

The fact that Obama is a liar.
The fact that Obama is corrupt.
The fact that Obama has no experience.
The fact that Obama is a racist.
The fact that Obama offers NO change, NO hope and NO unity.

Do you want a laundry list of all his lies? All his corruption? All the facts that show that his change/hope/unity rhetoric are just crap? It would be very easy .... do you want it? Just say the word ... it'll open a flood -gate of information to educate you on why Hillary voters RIGHTLY are refusing to vote for the racist-sexist nobody from Chicago.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by vor78
 


A star for you man. Although we disagree on much on this you are right on.

No more bashing the Hillary Clinton supporters!

It was a long hard fight and Obama won. Now a lot of HC supporters are pissed and jaded and the last thing the democratic party needs is its members turning on each other.

Besides, I highly doubt that race is the reason, sure for some it is, but by and large....please give me a break.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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I'm sure a lot of them are also really angry how the press and even their own liberal congress is turning against Hillary and not giving her a fair chance. She really has won some really good states that should give her a lot of credibility for the nomination, but none of the important politicians like her. The supporters know that most of the people are voting for Hillary, but that's not how the democrats choose their elected representative. Yet, people are still blind to the farce going on. I honestly don't like any of the candidates in any party this election and that's why I'm not voting. Unless of course, an honest American who really speaks his mind comes out of nowhere with so little time left.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Facts?...are you serious? Do you know what a "fact" is? And McCain offers those things?
To answer the OP's question, as the post I responded to inferred, Hillary's voters represent an anti-Obama vote. That's why.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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Obama needs the Clinton voters to win in November,thats why he better get her as a VP or promise to appoint her in his cabinet to something like Secretary of State.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 04:49 AM
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The old line feminists by my observation are livid that Hillary is unlikely to get the nomination (remember it isn't over until the convention, even if she "officially" drops out).

They see Hillary as more than a candidate, she is the quintessential woman finally breaking the ultimate glass ceiling, even though if Hillary did win the general election, I highly doubt that that would stop the incessant whining.

Many of the middle aged women are not going to vote for Obama because they feel betrayed by the Democrat party. To them, I say welcome to the club. I know just how you feel, only I learned my lesson about fourteen years ago.

You know that the Democrat party has reached the fringes when they are moving to the left of the hardliner, Marxist feminist movement.

I chuckle every time I think of this fact, because of the flak I took from the Marxist feminists when I was in graduate school. They tried to destroy me academically for telling them how it is and now they are probably the most disillusioned people in America today.

To broaden this out just a little, there are a lot of other Democrats, male and female, who are not going to vote for Obama in the general election, because unless they're in the same league with Rev. Wright, Louis Farrakhan, Father Pfleger, and others of their ilk, they're going to see through Obama's charade long before November.

It will likely be a close race, but I'm pretty sure that a substantial number of swing voters and disillusioned Democrats are going to win the election for John McCain, who regardless of how often it is going to be repeated is no George Bush.

Here's a feminist Democrat who's mad as an old wet hen that a man is likely to become the Democrat candidate for POTUS.


Obama is even alienating portions of the Black community.


Obama Resigns From Black Nation

How far is Barack Obama willing to run from the very same Black nationalism that was fundamental to his victories in so many state Democratic primaries? The nominee-apparent is in pell-mell flight from everything that does not conform to his own "race-neutral" worldview. Obama's political contradictions compel him to reject his most fervent supporters, and apparently to reexamine his ties to the Black Church as an institution. The "journey" to Black identity that Obama describes in his book Dreams From My Father seems in conflict with the Road to the White House. Longtime friends - maybe Black people as a whole - are left by the wayside. Perhaps "Obama ought to just keep on steppin' out of Black America entirely."

/3w5qke



[edit on 2008/6/6 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by GradyPhilpott
 


I disagree. Its not about race/gender, as much as the media wants you to believe. Its actually a longstanding ideological and cultural split in the Democratic party that has finally come to the forefront. Excluding African Americans, who voted overwhelmingly for Obama, its otherwise been the far-left, elitist Marxists vs the blue-collar, socially conservative traditionalists in America's heartland. You can call it the Nancy Pelosi wing vs the Bill Clinton wing of the Democratic party. Obama himself inadvertently made mention of this divide in his '...then they get bitter, clinging to their guns and religion...' comments in front of a wealthy audience and aimed at poorer Democratic communities in Pennsylvania.

The truth is, its a very, very odd alliance and it remains to be seen how much longer it can remain intact as the party's far-left wing continues to gain more and more power and continues to marginalize (and even hold in contempt) the views of the traditionalists within its ranks. Here's a terrific article I read on Salon.com a few days ago that does a much better job explaining this ideological and perhaps cultural divide in the Democratic party than I can:

The Rubes and the Elites



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by vor78
 


I agree with your assessment, but the race has been about race and gender and only the Democrats made it that way.

The feminists want a woman, almost any woman, at any cost.

Blacks will vote for Obama to the tune of 90+%, just because he is Black, or at least so far that's been the case.

There is plenty of irony in the fact the party of tolerance, equality, and all things progressive has deteriorated into warring racial, gender, and socio-economic factions.

[edit on 2008/6/6 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

There is plenty of irony in the fact the party of tolerance, equality, and all things progressive has deteriorated into warring racial, gender, and socio-economic factions.

[edit on 2008/6/6 by GradyPhilpott]


I agree to see this is ironic, but the Democratic party has not just become anything. It like the Republican party, and I am sure to some extent the Libertarian and Green parties are subject to the same thing, a large and diverse base.

A base in whose members exist a wide range of issues that are important to that perticular 'sub-group'.

In the Democratic party it is much more evident at the moment because of the perticular highly energized elements at play in this Primary cycle.

These groups and their core values have long been strong elements within the Democratic party and it is a better party for it.

While this primary energized some of these elements and brought them to a face off causing the ruckus we see now there is no good reason to say this demonstrates any flaw within the party itself, no flaw that is that is not inherent in any party whose members are human beings.

The 'war' will pass, the 'factions' will reconcile, and the party will move forward stronger for the challenges it has faced and overcome.

You are absolutely right, the Democratic Party is the party of "tolerance, equality, and all things progressive" and for that I am proud to be one of them.



[edit on 6-6-2008 by Animal]



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


wow, there's a racist comment if i ever heard one

I know this wont fit any black panther propaganda, but try this one on for size:

What if the clinton supporters say they'll vote for McCain because they believe that even he'd do a better job than Obama?

Obama is like that little video game kid from the new Charley and the Chocolate factory (go watch it and you'll see the analogy)

Just because Hill and Obama are both democrats doesnt mean democrats have to vote democrat. If obama is wrong, then he's wrong, its not because he's black.

Racist comments like yours have no place here, sir. Take your racial hate somewhere else.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 05:02 PM
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quoting animal


You are absolutely right, the Democratic Party is the party of "tolerance, equality, and all things progressive" and for that I am proud to be one of them.


Tolerance. To whom? American christians get suspended from school for praying before lunch, but American airports are praised for installing muslim foot basins.

Equality. To whom? Democrats create policies that take the money from working americans of all salaries, and put it in the pockets of lazy drug dealing criminals everywhere through the form of welfare


All things progressive? To use a democrats standard line of thinking that "the war in iraq is wrong" ... Democrats have had 5 years to do something about the War that they despise so badly. What have they done? Nothing. they keep funding the war, thats what. Progressive? Where's the new energy...where's the end of the war....i'd tell you where it's been stuffed, but the mods would smack me down for saying so.

If the democrats would quit spending their time investigating steriod use in a private business (MLB) and more time on REAL issues in thsi country, then i'd allow your "progressive" comment

but since they dont - you have officially been ommitted.

Sorry



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 05:10 PM
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If Hillarity jumps parties to support McCain it would show she is not interested in what is best for this country. It would prove her interests lie in furthering her own agenda. It would prove that she is that 'all for me, and to hell with you' candidate America doesn't need.

Her win at all costs strategy backfired. And now she wonders why she was rejected?






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