Clinton Supporters Voting for McCain, page 2

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 03:38 PM

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Thank you, ezziboo. I appreciate your comments.

I do not find it necessary to stoop to name calling. I have my reasons for not choosing to vote for Obama and it's that simple. I find that a lot of Obama supporters seem to be shocked when I tell them my decision to vote for McCain. I don't ask them why they have chosen to vote for Obama. That's their decision.

I do know that there are many Clinton supporters, such as myself, who feel that Hillary was pushed aside. I will stand by Hillary until the end, and when the time comes, I will make my vote count by voting for McCain.

I do not like the fact that throughout this campaign so many harsh things have been said between candidates. I cannot forget insinuations made by the Obama camp against Clinton and therefore I cannot fathom voting for him.

While Clinton and Obama may be on the same team, so to speak, there are differences in the candidates that go much deeper. I do not trust Obama and I do not appreciate the way he and his associates have written Clinton off before the race was even close to being finished. And in all reality, it may not be finished. I would love to see Clinton run as an Independent!

I believe people are on edge as this is such an important election. More than ever, voters have a more emotional connection to the candidates and this makes for more intensity when talking about it.

lucien

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 03:49 PM

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Hi Animal.

Clinton & Obama differ some on issues of heath care. And I am not sure how you can even compare the two considering that they are two completely different personalities. So I believe everything counts. If they were that much alike, why would anybody have issues with voting for Obama now?

The problem is that I, and so many others, do not trust Obama. I have asked before...what changes has Obama made thus far in his political career? I'd honestly never heard of the man before this election. Why do so many people expect such great changes from someone who hasn't made any changes thus far? What makes you think he will make changes? What kinds of changes do you expect him to make with such little experience? Do you trust him to protect and keep peace within and outside this country? Heck, I still don't know what his real position is concerning the many controversies that have plagues his campaign (Rev. Wright, Islam, etc.). My gut instinct tells me that this man can talk a good game but that he will not be able to play with the big boys, so to speak.

There is no doubt John McCain has more experience. That's a fact.

Like I've asked before, would you let an intern perform your open heart surgery when you can have a heart surgeon? I'd hope not.

Experience is a huge deal for me. I want to feel comfortable and confident that our President has the understanding of what to do to best benefit our country in any situation. I do not feel Obama will be able to do it.

Does that help?

lucien

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:03 PM

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Yes, I have seen the same thing on other message boards which is what prompted me to ask how people felt here. I was quite surprised and pleased to see so many other Clinton supporters who feel the same way. I read one report that proposed that 20-40% of Clinton supporters will vote for McCain. If that's true (crosses fingers), then McCain will be our next President.

I have seen some of the same advertisements. And yes, Bill & Hillary Clinton are among those who have from the beginning pointed out Obama's lack of experience. It is scary to think that someone with such little experience and so few years in politics could be our next President!

I would not be surprised if Hillary doesn't have something up her sleeve. I can only hope! She is such a strong woman and I don't see her giving up so easily. My guess is that she will publicly do what the "good ole boys" have been pressuring her to do since the beginning of the campaign and concede. Behind the scenes, I believe she will either run as an Independent, which would definitely give her the edge over Obama, or work with her supporters to keep him out of the White House.

I find it amusing that Democrats are mad about the "McCain Democrats". But I find it hard to believe that they would give up their individual vote to a party that has been steadily falling apart since Al Gore lost to Bush. Just because a person is a registered Democrat does not mean they have to support the Democratic nominee. I am not sure why anyone who wasn't 100% sure that Obama was the best choice would vote for him anyway.

I have also noticed that McCain has already challenged Obama to a public debate. I laughed when I read that because we all know how Obama did not like to debate with Clinton, who challenged him several times. He ignored her, but he will not be able to ignore McCain. McCain will tear him to shreds on issues Obama has never thought of

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by lucien

I've seen numerous Hillary supporters at various sites the last couple of days saying the same thing, to the point that they will not vote for Obama even if Hillary is the VP. I'm pretty sure that the Clinton supporters in my family would not vote for Obama if the election were held today, though whether that changes in the next few months, I don't know. They are life-long conservative Democrats, typical of what you find in the South and Midwest. When all is said and done, I think that Obama (and the party itself) is going to have a lot of problems with that group by the time that November arrives.

As for the 'lack of experience angle', notice that the RNC is already running an ad that features nothing but clips of Obama's Democratic rivals in the primary battle blasting him for that very issue. It includes Bill and Hillary Clinton. Its a pretty powerful ad, given that its just his own party speaking out against him and pretty clearly aimed at people like you that supported Hillary and that are having misgivings about him on that issue. The point is, we're going to be bombarded this fall by the words of his own party against him on an issue that you're going to get criticized for in this thread. But if his own party leaders feel that way...?

Whatever your reasons and whether you ultimately choose Obama or McCain, the most important thing is to vote this fall. Don't stay home.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by vor78]

lucien

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:09 PM

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That is very true as far as I am concerned.

Originally posted by vor78

On the issues, that perhaps is true. But I think its clear what the Clinton supporters are really saying: they do not trust Obama at all. If you don't believe that he's telling the truth or don't trust him to do the right thing in a stressful situation, why believe his platform? Why vote for him?

The Obama supporters would be wise not to take those of Hillary for granted this fall. Yet, perhaps not on this board, but on others, I see them doing nothing but antagonizing and bullying those Hillary supporters even now, when its over and done. Its no wonder that they do not trust him.

sensfan

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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To the OP, good question, and one I asked on here last week in my thread...wondering the exact same thing...

Existing ATS thread

lucien

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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I'm not sure about other Clinton supporters, but I am registered as an Independent, not Democrat. I could care less about the DNC, to be quite honest. It's about my individual vote.

I will say that I would consider voting for Ron Paul if he were still in the race. It's about the lesser of two evils at this point.

Originally posted by jtma508
I saw some of the PO'd Clinton supporters railing about how they'll vote McCain cause their candidate didn't get the nod. Are you serious? Clinton and McCain couldn't possible have more dissimilar views. What are they trying to prove? We didn't get our way so we'll vote McCain just to screw the DNC? No wonder we got GWB for 8yrs.

This kind of thinking is putting your own emotions ahead of the best interests of the country. I'm not an Obama supporter. I'm a well documented Ron Paul supporter. Still, to vote McCain because Clinton didn't get the nomination proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that to these people policies mean nothing. Four more years of the Republicans? If so, we're totally and utterly screwed. What these whiners can't seem to understand is that with McCain comes the entire underlayment of the Bush administration. All the special interests, all the corporate string pullers, all the behind-the-scenes pirates that have butt-raped this country for the last 8yrs. You don't just get McCain (not that he isn't bad enough on his own) you get the whole package. No matter what he tries to sell you, McCain IS Bush's 3rd term.

Look into McCain's background for the love of God. Obama isn't my candidate of choice. Neither was Hillary (for different reasons). But this country is in desperate need of a serious about-face --- and rather quickly. At least with Obama there is a chance to do that --- if by nothing else at least becasue the prevailing controlling interests will be flushed out of Washington. We can only hope the new ones do a better job. They could hardly do a worse one.

Benevolent Heretic

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by lucien
For you to accuse me of choosing to vote for McCain for "spite" or "revenge" is in true Obama spirit, in my opinion. Not everything is about Obama.

Uh-huh. Yeah... Riiiight. If it's not about Obama, why do you also say:

Originally posted by lucien
True Clinton supporters will never vote for Obama. A vote for McCain is necessary to keep Obama out!

Sounds like it's about Obama to me.

But that's cool. Lead your little crusade ("Who's with me"?) to keep Obama out of the white house. Good luck with that.

lucien

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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I mean for Obama supporters. They don't seem to consider that anyone could choose not to vote for Obama.

For me, it is about keeping Obama out of the White House and having a President who is qualified to lead our country. The lesser of two evils...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by lucien
For you to accuse me of choosing to vote for McCain for "spite" or "revenge" is in true Obama spirit, in my opinion. Not everything is about Obama.

Uh-huh. Yeah... Riiiight. If it's not about Obama, why do you also say:

Originally posted by lucien
True Clinton supporters will never vote for Obama. A vote for McCain is necessary to keep Obama out!

Sounds like it's about Obama to me.

But that's cool. Lead your little crusade ("Who's with me"?) to keep Obama out of the white house. Good luck with that.

vor78

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by lucien

Lucien, I'm sure that you're going to appreciate this one:

www.boston.com...

But first and foremost, I am an American," writes Lieberman, who has been one of McCain's most active surrogates. "I have an obligation to do what I think is best for our nation regardless of political party. My love for this country and strong belief in John McCain's character, judgment, and willingness to work with leaders of both parties has convinced me to support him for President."

WOW. The Dems own Vice Presidential candidate from 2000 not only endorsing John McCain, but CAMPAIGNING for him.

For Obama, well, that's gonna leave a mark.

Anonymous ATS

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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Don't want any of the Obamas or Opra ,Kennedys and all their trash!!!

I WAS A H. CLITON SUPPORTER SO I WILL NOW VOTE J.MCCAIN

Benevolent Heretic

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by lucien
It is scary to think that someone with such little experience and so few years in politics could be our next President!

Hillary has been a US Senator for 8 years. Obama was elected to the State Senate in 1996. He's been a US Senator for 4 years. I'm not sure why people think Hillary has all this experience as compared to Obama...

My husband is a software engineer. I've talked with him a LOT about his job and specifics of what he does... But I doubt I could put that on my resume as MY experience... It seems people are counting being married to a politician as BEING a politician. She has less experience than Obama does!

When people say her experience far outweighs hers, I can't help but think there's another reason they don't want him in the White House.

Anonymous ATS

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by lucien

I'm sorry -- but I simply don't understand this view! It worries me, in fac.

Look -- I too wanted Hillary to go all the way. But she didn't make it. It hurts, and it will take a while to get over that hurt, but I can step outside of that pain and realize something very important:

John McCain, for many reasons, is the ENEMY. He was Clinton's enemy, and he was Obama's enemy; regardless of your pain for Hillary or your disapproval of Barack, we've got to realize that Hillary and Barack are very closely aligned on policy issues. McCain's in an alternate world.

I wholeheartedly agree with anyone who says that they will not vote because Hillary is no longer an option (or will write in Hillary). I agree and understand. BUT to say that you will jump ship and vote MCCAIN is absolutely puzzling to me. You can't possibly believe that a John McCain America will be better than a Barack Obama America!!??! Remember, Barack is fighting for a lot of the same things Hillary is fighting for ((and that McCain is NOT)), and Hillary will play a role within Obama's term -- it may not be VP, but it could be a high level position or it could just be the fact that she's part of the Democratic party...

The point is, absolutely, a vote for McCain is a vote AGAINST HILLARY. Don't you see that? If you vote McCain into the White House, you will be fighting against Hillary's fight. You will be making Hillary's battle that much harder. You will be electing Hillary's enemy, rather than her party peer.

We have to stand together as Democrats and realize that, if we cannot have the Clinton America we want, we absolutely must either *not vote* OR vote for Obama. We must NOT VOTE MCCAIN!!

coven

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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So heres my question... to the op and any other clinton supporters going this route...

What if clinton is nominated as Obama's VP?

Still voting for McCain??

Would love to know a reasoned answer.

Coven

Res Ipsa

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:17 PM
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I'm not sure it would be anything more than a hypothetical question. Hillary will not under any circumstances be Obama's VP. Take that to the bank.
What I hope to see is people start listening to the positions on the issues and not giving any quarter to lies. McCain was once my man back in the NH primary days. He has gone absolutely loopy since then, and if it is just to court the conservative base, well I'm not cool with that, because that means his "maverick" days are either over or just a sham to begin with.
Before McCain, I was all behind Hillary (even though I can't stand her) I just loved Bill, and wanted him back on Pennsylvania Ave.
But after wathcing McCain transform into McBush, and listening to sniper fire lies, from Bill transforming from the man into some crazy dude, from Hillary even trying to give a not so subliminal message to all of the redneck hay seeds to do a Bobby Kennedy on Obama, and the list goes on. The only thing I can't stand about Obama is his racist wife. But of course I was willing to vote a spouse in office just so the other would be there, so unless Michele does anything worse, then I am left with Obama.
I am glad to see that all of the posters are active in the political process and are going to vote. You are entitled to have any position you choose.
Oh, the experience thing is such a red herring or non issue.
The ultimate question is "judgment". Who has the best?
I have taken comfort in seeing that Obama has shown the best by far even under fire, which is important. I don't think I would refer to a Harvard Law graduate as an intern either.
Some of you really do believe that it will take a long long time to fix our problems. The problems, amazingly enough, are not that hard to fix if there is cooperation between the branches of government. Don't be so pessimistic. Ok, example quick;
Are some of you old enough to remember when they would show the running ticker on the national deficit back under George Bush sr.?
I thought we were screwed, then, in comes Bill and we manage to find a way to get a surplus.
I think I can say the following with some confidence. If you have made your decision on who to vote for at this moment in time....well, I think it is foolish. You may just have to write in Ron Paul. But my dear friend, OP, McCain is not at ALL the man who started this campaign, he may still be your best choice, but this political crap is fluid and it changes and you need to be vigilant in order to avoid being a "sheeple".
peace.

coven

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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No offense, but I am not asking for non-answers, I'm looking for a specific yes or no(and why). I am asking who you will vote for if hillary were to accept the VP position (which no one can speculate one way or the other until she speaks this saturday...)

Can you please answer the question. Bill would still be in 1600 pennsylvania ave. just instead of first husband he would be... vice-first husband??? (
)

Seriously... On the off chance she took the VP... Would you vote Obama?

Coven

lucien

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:54 PM
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My answer is no. I will not support Obama as President even if Hillary is VP. My reason is simple. I do not trust Obama. I have never supported him and that won't change no matter who his VP is.

I agree with the above poster. Clinton will never take a VP position beside Obama!

Originally posted by coven
No offense, but I am not asking for non-answers, I'm looking for a specific yes or no(and why). I am asking who you will vote for if hillary were to accept the VP position (which no one can speculate one way or the other until she speaks this saturday...)

Can you please answer the question. Bill would still be in 1600 pennsylvania ave. just instead of first husband he would be... vice-first husband??? (
)

Seriously... On the off chance she took the VP... Would you vote Obama?

Coven

lucien

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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I am not surprised by this. The Democratic party has no idea how many Clinton supporters are going to back McCain. I have heard a lot of Clinton supporters say that they are ready to leave the Democratic party as they feel it has lost sight, so to speak. If the Democratic party is ready to win back the White House, they will give Clinton the nomination. Otherwise, McCain will be our next President with the help of Clinton supporters and other Democrats who feel cheated by the process.

Thanks for sharing this. I have a new appreciation for Lieberman

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by lucien

Lucien, I'm sure that you're going to appreciate this one:

www.boston.com...

But first and foremost, I am an American," writes Lieberman, who has been one of McCain's most active surrogates. "I have an obligation to do what I think is best for our nation regardless of political party. My love for this country and strong belief in John McCain's character, judgment, and willingness to work with leaders of both parties has convinced me to support him for President."

WOW. The Dems own Vice Presidential candidate from 2000 not only endorsing John McCain, but CAMPAIGNING for him.

For Obama, well, that's gonna leave a mark.

Kamikaze X

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by lucien
My answer is no. I will not support Obama as President even if Hillary is VP. My reason is simple. I do not trust Obama. I have never supported him and that won't change no matter who his VP is.

I agree with the above poster. Clinton will never take a VP position beside Obama!

Originally posted by coven
No offense, but I am not asking for non-answers, I'm looking for a specific yes or no(and why). I am asking who you will vote for if hillary were to accept the VP position (which no one can speculate one way or the other until she speaks this saturday...)

Can you please answer the question. Bill would still be in 1600 pennsylvania ave. just instead of first husband he would be... vice-first husband??? (
)

Seriously... On the off chance she took the VP... Would you vote Obama?

Coven

I find it hillarious that you don't trust Obama but your first pick supported:

- NAFTA

- The Iraq War

- The Selling of Nuclear Secrets to China through Magnesquelch

...and that's the short list. You should just be honest and say that you won't vote for a Black dude at least you'd make more sense.

[edit on 6/6/08 by Kamikaze X]

[edit on 6/6/08 by Kamikaze X]

FlyersFan

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 06:00 AM
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Why are Clinton supporters going to vote for McCain?

This is why - watch this in Hillary's own words .

Question answered.

TheOracle

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 07:56 AM
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I think it's sad people vote to keep somebody out. You should vote for the views closer to yours, not out of spite. Or not vote at all. You don't make sense at all because Obama is much closer to Hillary that McCain, unless for you it's a color or spite issue.
When Hillary endorses Obama you can't say you are a Hillary supporter, can you?