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Federal Judge Allows Blackwater To Open San Diego Facility

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posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 07:26 PM
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Federal Judge Allows Blackwater To Open San Diego Facility


www.rawstory.com

A federal judge has ordered the city of San Diego to allow military contractor Blackwater Worldwide to begin using a new counterterrorism training facility.

District Court Judge Marilyn Huff ruled Wednesday that the company would suffer irreparable harm if it could not begin holding classes for Navy sailors at a converted warehouse outfitted with an indoor firing range.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 07:26 PM
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Woo-hoo! Corporate Mercs now operating their facilities in a major city near you! Allow them to infiltrate your area, or else! Anyone want to guess where these guys will figure in when the s*** finally hits the fan here? Since they don't seem to be the subject of any laws, they fit right in PERFECTLY with all the other measures that are being put into place by TPTB domestically...


Blackwater sued last month to force the city to issue final occupancy permits after the required inspections were already approved.

The city responded that the company misled officials about the nature of the facility.




www.rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:22 PM
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Let's see...they are a legal, private company. They have broken no laws.

Why shouldn't they be able to operate in San Diego?

Just because you don't like them is not reason enough to keep them out, now is it?



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

Let's see...they are a legal, private company. They have broken no laws.

Why shouldn't they be able to operate in San Diego?

Just because you don't like them is not reason enough to keep them out, now is it?



eeerrrr yeah it is.

A live fire indoor range to train sailors ?? why is that not SEAL / SFOD instructors roles ? a private company training your forces and forcing their way into a city against peoples will ?

Oh yeah, thats right, corporate finance over people any day.

The line 'irreperable harm if not allowed' is total Bull crap. They have a big enough facility that the Navy could damn well bus their people to if its that important Blackwater train them.

Hell why not send them to be trained at a Marine Corp facility ?

This is corporate war machine gone nuts.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Dan Tanna
 



Originally posted by Dan Tanna

Originally posted by jsobecky

Let's see...they are a legal, private company. They have broken no laws.

Why shouldn't they be able to operate in San Diego?

Just because you don't like them is not reason enough to keep them out, now is it?



eeerrrr yeah it is.


Uhhhh....no it isn't. That's called discrimination. Remember, the city is a public institution, not a private one.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Dan Tanna
eeerrrr yeah it is.

A live fire indoor range to train sailors ?? why is that not SEAL / SFOD instructors roles ? a private company training your forces and forcing their way into a city against peoples will ?


Sweet Jesus! You're right! Private trainers instructing US military members! That's unspeakable!!

You do know that the US military does contract a fair amount of training out. Guess we'll have to kick out the Microsoft geeks when they are teaching a new software system to troops!


SEALs/SFOD/Etc aren't Small Arms instructors. That ain't their job. The military has guys that are trained for that, but they maybe be short handed at this time, so they contract it out to a civilian company. Some bases, like my own, doesn't even have a range and we have to go to someone elses for training.

"Forcing their way into a city against the people's will?" The reason that the city might not want them could simply be a noise problem. I'm sure that San Diego will be enjoying the tax revenue they'll be collecting from Blackwater.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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What irreperable harm would be caused by not allowing them there?

With all due respect Becky, a city has a right to decide what it does and does not want inside it's borders. City council meetings keep porn shops and Super Walmart's out of cities all the time.

[edit on 4-6-2008 by Finn1916]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:53 PM
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SEAL instructors are amongst the best in the world, and if there is a need for sailors to learn these skills why not have the navies elite teach them ?

It would be like wanting to be able to drive a formula one car and taking driving lessons from a skoda dealership.

Wrong class, wrong skill set.

Yes Blackwater have some good people, but does the Navy really need to look outside itself for small arms training ?

No this is just the military industrial machine feathering its own nest.

As for a city saying no and a judge forcing them to accept, thats wrong. If a city doesnt want mercenaries in it they should have the right to say no.

Now that sets a dangerous precedent in law that a business could claim irreparable harm and over turn a cities wishes.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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Uh, did you not watch Jericho? There is a reason why Blackwater (Ravenwood on the show) is bad...

If you ask me, Jericho has been canceled twice because it hits too close to home for showing the truth for what's to come.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 11:17 PM
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Weird...

Cubic Corporation is already located in San Diego (Nation's first Stadium Scoreboard turned Military Contractor)....

And Cubic Corp just achieved a milestone this past year or two which makes it more likely to achieve a government contract....I have totally forgotten the source.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Well, it's official, Blackwater now has a facility on all four corners of the United States of America. What I wonder is why it had to be San Diego, and why not another city when the citizens through a fit. I've said enough about Blackwater on the thread in My signature, I just know when it all comes down to it, we will have lost all of our rights and freedoms, and Blackwater as well as Dyncorp, and Triple Canopy will have a major hand in it.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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Arrgh...

Sorry...frustrated...

Cubic Corp....Look through there web page

It's all over the place...



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by Finn1916
 



Originally posted by Finn1916
What irreperable harm would be caused by not allowing them there?

That's standard nomenclature used by petitioners.


Originally posted by Finn1916
With all due respect Becky, a city has a right to decide what it does and does not want inside it's borders. City council meetings keep porn shops and Super Walmart's out of cities all the time.

[edit on 4-6-2008 by Finn1916]


With all due respect, Finn, that's what laws are for. And zoning districts.

I have been a member of our Zoning Commission, making decisions on many petitions. And, to the other poster, I have also, as a private citizen working under contract, taught many members of both the US and other nation's militarys. It's not unusual.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by Maverycke
 



Blackwater applied for routine inspection permits as Raven Development Group, a name its lawyers said the company had used for other projects.


Life imitates art...



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by Dan Tanna
 



Originally posted by Dan Tanna
SEAL instructors are amongst the best in the world, and if there is a need for sailors to learn these skills why not have the navies elite teach them ?

There could be many reasons, including scheduling conflicts, availability, charter conflicts, etc.



Originally posted by Dan Tanna
It would be like wanting to be able to drive a formula one car and taking driving lessons from a skoda dealership.

Small weapons training? Hardly a valid comparison.



Originally posted by Dan Tanna
As for a city saying no and a judge forcing them to accept, thats wrong. If a city doesnt want mercenaries in it they should have the right to say no.

Now that sets a dangerous precedent in law that a business could claim irreparable harm and over turn a cities wishes.


It's not "wrong", it's the right way to do things. That's the way our system works.

There is so much animosity here directed toward Blackwater. People want to cry "freedom" but only when it meets the result they want. Why do you want selective granting of freedom? That is a very dangerous precedent to set, and is reminiscent of Nazi Germany or the old USSR.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I have been a member of our Zoning Commission, making decisions on many petitions.


And how would you feel about this then?


AP News
The city responded that the company misled officials about the nature of the center, which includes a multilevel mock ship built out of cargo containers, to avoid triggering a full review by the city planning commission and a possible City Council vote.

...

It said Blackwater's plan to use the warehouse for "paramilitary training" makes it different from other firing ranges. Sailors would move around the mock ship with firearms instead of remaining stationary, as at an indoor firing range.


Do you think Blackwater should be allowed to just build a container mountain and have trainees scrambling over it firing weapons, without the city being satisfied that the rest of it's citizens are safe? Wouldn't the City end up being held responsible if people on neighboring properties were injured?



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by mythatsabigprobe
 


I would be completely surprised if abutter's safety was not taken into consideration. As for proximity to outsiders, I occassionally frequent an indoor shooting range that is within a mile of an international airport.

We can design safety into a building. We have the technology.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 08:24 AM
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How would their safety be taken properly into consideration if the city council was mislead into believing this was just a regular indoor range?

And do they let you fire through the walls and roof where you shoot?



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I have been a member of our Zoning Commission, making decisions on many petitions. And, to the other poster, I have also, as a private citizen working under contract, taught many members of both the US and other nation's militarys. It's not unusual.


Taught them what?

See, I think part of the problem here is, this is specifically being used for training in firearm use, and apparently also confined-area combat. Being that the Military's primary responsibilities rely heavily on the use of firearms, I think there's a reasonable expectation that the Military should be using its own people for firearms training.

In my mind there's a huge difference between using civilian software experts to train soldiers in the use of a particular company's systems and using a "civilian paramilitary contractor" (which shouldn't even be allowed to exist IMO) to train them in what should already be their area of expertise. Isn't this the kind of thing that should be taught in Boot? And if not, why?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the need for manufacturer representatives to provide training on their products, from the makers of guns and tanks to the makers of computer hardware and software. But Blackwater manufactures nothing, and what they're teaching is something one can reasonably expect our military should already know.

And my problems with Blackwater are very simple: They operate in a Constitutional grey area in regards to whether they count as a "well-organized militia"; they have no loyalties except to money; they have zero accountability to Congress or, frankly, any other authority apparently; they recruit heavily from foreign countries such as Chile, Colombia and the Phillippines (essentially seeding their ranks with foreign nationals with no ties whatsoever to American communities--very dangerous if they're deployed in the USA again for "supplemental law enforcement duties); and they basically have far too much firepower and political clout for a private company that has no oversight from any recognized government authority.

If you doubt that Blackwater is too powerful I challenge anyone here to try and start their own such company, or to publicly try and start a private militia, without the kind of connections they have. You'll have BATF kicking your door in before you've even got half the permit applications filled out.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by mythatsabigprobe
 


I would be completely surprised if abutter's safety was not taken into consideration. As for proximity to outsiders, I occassionally frequent an indoor shooting range that is within a mile of an international airport.

We can design safety into a building. We have the technology.


But, it's not a building. This isn't just an "indoor firing range". It's a group of thin-walled metal shipping containers combined to create a close-combat simulation. Bullets will go right through that stuff.

Why did they have to put that within San Diego city limits? Couldn't they have bought up private coastal property away from major cities and set up shop there? Or, couldn't they have set it up on an existing Naval base, where presumably public safety has already been taken into account?



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