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Ermm... A Message

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posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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Religion can be pretty harmless. You can believe in whatever the hell you want. The problems arise when these beliefs are imposed on others.

Of course these people are real enthusiastic about it and want to share it but what they need to understand is that sometimes people don't want to hear it, or have heard it countless times before from numerous other individuals.

There is nothing worse than an interesting discussion being destroyed by incessant Bible quotes (that have little or no relevance) from misguided individuals.

I suppose their hearts are in the right place. They think they are helping to 'spread the word' or whatever but all they are doing is widening the gap between those who share the beliefs and those who don't. This creates tension which eventually leads to a breakdown in communication.

People need to realise that everyone deserves equal respect no matter what religion/race/sex/sexuality they are. These are all barriers we use to disassociate ourselves from others.

No one person's beliefs are worth more than anothers just as no one person's life is worth more than anothers. Simple really huh.

A little bit more respect from everybody would make this world a much nicer place. Deep down we all know it too.

Problem is ego always seems to get in the way .....




posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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I disagree.... God told us to spread the word.. in our faith christ is your creator who raised the dead and worked miracles.. and the one of the OT the awaited messiah, the word made flesh in John 6..

So spreading it is actually in our hearts an act of charity.. now the way it could be pride is if the people spreading it are built up inside and think they are above you..

God also says..

whoever doesn't want to hear you, leave them and let them be... but you gotta try atleast once to convert souls..


btw the main focul point of our faith is.. love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself...

not just loving your homeboys, your (dogs), your crew... I'm talking about perfect unconditional love which loves everybody enemies included.. and this comes from gods teaching..

if Christians would truley live by these teachings and not be hypocrites the world would be perfect..


peace.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by threedoom
 



Of course these people are real enthusiastic about it and want to share it but what they need to understand is that sometimes people don't want to hear it, or have heard it countless times before from numerous other individuals.


The admonition you speak of (in the rest of your post) by Jesus to spread the word of the Gospel is correct. But, there is something Jesus said (and you picked up on it):

Luke 10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.

and a bit later in the same context (chapter) Jesus said:

Luke 10:10-11But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go (leave them alone...don't bug them anymore) your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Never...not even once...has Jesus told us to FORCE any beliefs. He didn't come to save EVERYONE:

Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Those who "force" beliefs are in error about what Jesus said...they just need to 'walk away'. Those who reject Him aren't drawn near, anyway. (They are wasting their time).

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him (God MAKES you listen): and I will raise him up at the last day.

In short, "Don't preach where you are WANTED to!".

[edit on 4-6-2008 by PreTribGuy]

[edit on 4-6-2008 by PreTribGuy]

[edit on 4-6-2008 by PreTribGuy]

[edit on 4-6-2008 by PreTribGuy]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by JesusisTruth
 



whoever doesn't want to hear you, leave them and let them be... but you gotta try atleast once to convert souls..


While I understand your conviction, I ask this:

"Have you EVER met anyone who had NOT heard the Gospel?"

If they heard it once...and rejected it...is it not time to move on and shake the dust off your feet?

[edit on 4-6-2008 by PreTribGuy]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by PreTribGuy
 


Ok, after 4 attempts to edit, I give up.

This:
In short, "Don't preach where you are WANTED to!".

Should say:
In short, "Don't preach where you aren't WANTED to!".



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:23 AM
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Why would you want to supress something that is an integral part of someones life? Everyone brings to the table their ideas and life experiences.

Respect is a two way street.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by threedoom
 


I hope you enjoyed your little rant.
Too bad you were not around in the time of Jesus.
You could have been one of the people in the crowd, crying out for his crucification.
"Happy to get rid of trouble makers, going around quoting scripture, thinking they had a better religion.
Good riddance. All they do is cause division among people.
Why cant we just go along with spiritual bondage, and have everyone just accept it."



posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 06:39 AM
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PreTribGuy - If only more religious folk were like yourself and realised that some people just aren't interested.


reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


As I said, people can believe in whatever the hell they want to. I just don't appreciate having to scroll through pages of off-topic religous quotes to get to a post with some relevance. This doesn't just apply to this forum as the problem is evident on any forum that discusses theism/atheism (as I have found out on many in the past)

Also, a lot of impressionable young people have access to the internet these days and I don't want any more lives tainted by religion. The same goes for education in schools. I don't believe children should be taught about religion until they are at an age where they are mature enough to come to their own conclusions rather than believing what they are told.

Yes, respect is a two way street. I just wish religious folk would appreciate my right to be an Atheist, just as I appreciate theirs to be [insert mainstream religion here]. I've been tolerant of 'Atheist bashing' for years now but have finally had enough of it and am not going to ignore it anymore.

reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Haha, I can assure you that that was definitely not a rant. I could show you one if you like? Only joking. You're lucky I'm too nice for that.

Yes, too bad I wasn't around in the time of Jesus huh? You think if I was I'd be calling for his crucifixion? Haha please... Just because I don't believe in what you do there's no reason to assume that I'd be there calling for the executuion of a fellow human being.

Anyway, let's say that I was around in Jesus' time, and I was one of the ones calling for his crucifixion (hypothetically of course)... Surely you would have to be thankful for the people like me as, by having Jesus crucified, we gave you the whole basis for your religion. What would you be believing in now if Jesus wasn't crucified and didn't die as a martyr? What if he was spared and went on to live the rest of his life without doing anything worthwhile? Maybe you'd have been unfortunate enough to fall into another religion :p

peace

3d



posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Why the "for us or against us" attitude? Just because someone disagrees with the words of Jesus does not neccesarily mean they want him cruxified. From what I understand also, Jesus was not pushy either. There is a difference between sharing what you believe and pushing it onto others.



posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by threedoom
 


your quote:no one's personal beliefs are worth more than anothers and no one's personal life is worth more than others.

you are mistaken----take a look at revelation14:12-20.

it is not the saints who are thrown into the wine press of the wrath of G-D but rather those whose minds have wrong thoughts in them and act upon those wrong thoughts.

G-D apparently thinks they are worth less than the saints.



posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

whoever doesn't want to hear you, leave them and let them be... but you gotta try atleast once to convert souls..



No... You don't have to try at least once. You don't know what is in someone's heart, and you have no right to assume that what's in yours is better. I don't want to be converted, I don't want to be preached to. Not your job. My soul is my business, and your soul is your business.



Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Why the "for us or against us" attitude? Just because someone disagrees with the words of Jesus does not neccesarily mean they want him cruxified. From what I understand also, Jesus was not pushy either. There is a difference between sharing what you believe and pushing it onto others.


Quite right!! I couldn't have said this better myself, and I appreciate you posting this.


If I see someone standing on a street corner preaching, and I choose to go up and listen to them or ask them questions, that is one thing. If I am sitting in my own home and someone knocks on my door to give me a copy of "The Watchtower" and talk to me about Jesus, that is quite another. I think it's okay to let others know where you stand on things (in an appropriate manner) and let them come to you, but I do not think it's okay to harass people and use your beliefs in an obnoxious fashion. How would you like it if someone tried to convert you, and was pushy when you declined the conversation/literature? Jesus was not pushy. Overzealous followers (of any religion) regularly overstep personal boundaries, and feel it is their duty to do so... Not cool, people. Not cool.

Edited for grammar.

[edit on 8-6-2008 by TheHypnoToad]



posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by yahn goodey
reply to post by threedoom
 


your quote:no one's personal beliefs are worth more than anothers and no one's personal life is worth more than others.

you are mistaken----take a look at revelation14:12-20.

it is not the saints who are thrown into the wine press of the wrath of G-D but rather those whose minds have wrong thoughts in them and act upon those wrong thoughts.

G-D apparently thinks they are worth less than the saints.




No, I am not mistaken.

It wasn't a quote from anywhere to the best of my knowledge.

It's my own personal belief.

Whatever your book has to say on it is irrelevant.

Thank you.



posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by threedoom
 




I was a little late in responding to your original post.
If I was the first person to respond, I would have taken a different approach.
As it was, there were two very good reasonable responses to your post.
I did not have anything to add, on that level.
I chose to take it to a higher level, from a purely intellectual, to a more personal level.
I could have been more harsh, because according to a lot of Christian preachers, you would actually be found guilty of Christ's blood, in the final judgment.
I thought I would give you the opportunity to get out from under that condemnation.
I think your outward appearance of loving your fellow man, masks a deeper resentment that has not been restrained properly, in your heart.
Your original post kind of says that you can be a Christian, only as long as you do not actually believe in it.
All Christians are given the command to spread the Gospel.
This is something that has do be done even in the face of opposition and persecution.
Jesus did it and paid with his life.
We can not expect to fair any better.
If we decide to not be pushy, then we are not following Christ.
In response to your claim that Jesus was not pushy, I would like to make the counter claim that he was.
He took on the appearance of being the fulfillment of the Coming King prophesy.
He entered Jerusalem as King and proceeded to take his place of office.
Maybe he was not pushy because he did not bring an army with him.
You seem to be offended by people knocking on your door.
If you were alive a couple hundred years ago, you would have had the church police coming to your home to arrest you if you were not in church on Sunday morning.



posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


What on earth are you talking about?

I have really given up trying to make sense of a lot of the Christians (who are the prevalent religion pushers on ATS) on this site. To me your post didn't make any sense?

Jesus was pushy? remind me in the bible where it says:

'And lo, Jesus knocked upon the door at tea time and used his children as a tactic to get the poor house dweller to listen while their tea burned in the oven.'

Plus, when you think about it, he didn't really need an army did he? The Church (and I resent giving the word a capital letter) did plenty of warmongering and forced conversions afterwards.

Don't try to tell me this religion is anything to do with peace or love. It's all power, control and aggression with a demented smile.

Nothing personal to anyone like, after all - none of it is real is it? All that fire and brimstone and damnation stuff? And if it is - I'll have a place by the fire please...

All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster and may His Noodly Appendages touch you all.

Peace,

MSP

[edit on 8-6-2008 by more_serotonin_pls]



posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by more_serotonin_pls
 


I like to use the capital C when I am talking about the state run church.
It is not exactly the same as the real church, the body of Christ.
I do not think Jesus preached forced conversion.
Power mad psychopaths who got themselves into positions of authority in the Church did a lot of hideous things, that eventually brought about their own downfall.
For example, the rabid persecution of Protestants in France drove out decent Christians.
I think that lead directly to the French Revolution, that threw the Church out.
A lot of the fire and brimstone business may be as fake as you think.
Most of that stuff is a product of the dark ages and was a great invention to keep people coming to church.
When I was younger, I used to pass out literature.
I never put anyone to any sort of trouble.
I would just hold it out, and they could take it or not.
If people do some sort of harassment to people, I do not think they are doing the right thing.



posted on Jun, 8 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Thank you so much for such an honest response.

I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, I think that people like yourself are few and far between.

Your cause would do a million times better if they were all like you, even if it isn't for me.

Thank you again, and respect!

Peace,

MSP



posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 10:08 AM
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jmdewey...are you in favor of bringing back the witch trials too? Because that is what one of your previous posts seems to elude too.


And toad, you don't have to tell me about the watchtower. The creepy Jehovas Witness women that come to my door somehow know me by name and I can't for the life of me figure out how they found out my name. I am officially scared of those people!



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