Originally posted by djerwulfe
I was gonna star the post. I appeciate the source, but then I read your interpretation.
The only thing stopping Iranians or anyone from having representative government is the population itself.
So you will argue that state sponsored violence and terrorism with support from foreign countries plays no part in the fact that some people's just
can't seem to have representative governments despite the deaths of thousands ( or tens/hundreds of thousands) of organizers and their supporters?
You don't think the quest for representative government and 'freedom' ranks a bit lower on most people's lists if they there is a good chance
that they wont survive to see anything they might have achieved? If you want to argue that can you please show me how such a belief can be shown to be
in accordance with human nature or any other 'instinct' that would lead people as sheep to the slaughter?
The U.S. government is getting less representative because if you let morons decide, you fail.
But their not letting the people decide about anything but about who will ultimately lie to them while doing not many if any of the things they asked
for. Sure we could argue that people are morons but first the governments of the world would as rule have to start doing what their people wanted so
we can find out if the people are actually stupid!
Every freebie handed out only bolsters laziness and stupidity. It spreads like maggots, but woe to those not ready with a handout.
People are naturally lazy unless otherwise and sufficiently indoctrinated to work all day to enrich another. As most people today work for someone
else that shared little of their interest it's hardly a surprise that people don't work hard for them and that some will try to find short cuts
toward paying the rent while not having to suffer the indignities that goes along with being a wage slave. Standing in a benefit line may be
embarrassing but it hardly compares to 8- 10 hours a day of sitting around trying to either do good work , and not getting rewarded, or not doing much
and getting by any ways.
As for the stupidity i have far more respect for those few ( and most Americans on welfare are working full time ) who somehow manage to make the
system pay them for doing nothing than i have for those dolts that enrich their corporate bosses who will in turn use the profits to move their
operations to a country where they can pay the workers half as much because people there are just happy to be able to afford a little food at the end
of the day.
This is why Bush rigged the election.
He didn't rig it as if he did he would have actually won the electoral vote. What Bush's friends did is STEAL the election twice as they didn't
manage to rig it well enough to get away with obscuring their trickery.
So what's it gonna be? An informed, diligent, honorable productive population actually involved in decision making, but responsible for
So how will people become informed if the best educated amongst them are selected at relatively young ages to be educated in 'facts' that aren't
and almost always seem to result in reasoning and arguments that will result in them creating discussions that results in their listeners becoming
ever more misinformed and thus basically uninformed? How informed would people be if their schooling system actually taught them useful things about
their world instead of creating workers to staff the imperial machine or capitalist work benches?
As for diligent/honorable what allegiance do i owe my current boss other than the fact that i am worth more to him than he pays me? In fact doesn't
he owe ME for signing up to be exploited to his benefit? When it comes to productivity i am confident that given property of their own ( not the
banks) most people would not only make it productive, as humanity managed for the absolutely majority of the time before the modern capitalist age,
but be quite responsible ,diligent and honorable in there exchanges with others. When things are going well it's logical to be honorable but since
capitalism ensures that it's always going badly for the majority what do we expect beside deceit and cheating in the interest of short term survival?
or a welfare state of ignorant lazy people who are INCAPABLE of making wise choices?
What is a welfare state other than a state that gives the people back exactly what they gave in taxes ? Why should a state somehow consume the
resources it took from it's citizens without giving them any benefit for it? How would a welfare state that consists on ignorant lazy people actually
tax anyone if no wise decisions are made about how and when to work? As to wise decisions how many more times do you want the people of various
countries to tell you what they really want and what would it take for you to understand their disappointment when they keep voting for candidates
that so often do the exact opposite of what they said they would? Who's fault is it really when the people's candidates are maligned in the
corporate press when they can no longer be murdered outright? How can you judge humanity so harshly when it's abundantly obvious what we want and try
to achieve to the best of our abilities?
You can't have it both ways. What's the impetus for people to be informed and engaged when they haven't earned anything?
Sure you can't have it both ways and that's why capitalism declared war on socialism/communist ages ago to ensure that people do not get governments
that at least in theory guarantees that the people will retain control over the resources and productive capacity of their country. Sure many of those
experiments have failed but what chance did they have in a environment where capitalism had already established itself by genocide and worse? What is
the impetus for people to be informed and engaged when time and time again the entire machinery of the state is turned upon them destroying their
chosen community representatives and social structures? What impetus is there to get yourself killed pointlessly?
They have nothing to lose and are like spoiled children. How can those people be in charge and not screw up?
Well 'they' ( meaning us, the people ) rarely get in charge of anything so until we gain a chance to prove ourselves we should not be written off so
You want more eroding democracy in North America? Then keep on raising taxes and expanding Federal Powers. And have a lollipop. On me.
Well that's exactly what the largely undemocratic electoral powers in the US have been doing for a damn long time and the only thing that has reigned
them in so far is the democratic action of the American people.