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A thought about language on ATS

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posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 01:54 PM
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Recently, I have noticed an increase in complaints from people who seem to be finding the whole »ambiance« of ATS just too unwelcoming and off-putting.

I can easily see why, just by reading the thread titles on the main page.
(I rarely venture "inside" anymore.)

So, here is a thought for your consideration:

If four-letter words are deemed inappropriate (and rightly so), then I see no reason why expressions like the (increasingly popular) »sheeple« shouldn't be strongly acted against, too.

Such expressions are far, FAR worse than the usual expletives.
You see, these are just that: unnecessary, inelegant, childish (and sometimes funny) interjections to reinforce one's expression, which is perhaps lacking in wit. But usually that's about it. They have no real personalised charge.

Derogatory expressions, on the other hand, are - as contempt itself - the worst kind of hate: generalised hate.

And personally I see no reason why they should be tolerated.
Because, let's face it: if a person cannot dispense with such words, it's because s/he has nothing to say.


Thanks for the attention.




posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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Nobody agrees?

Nobody disagrees?







[edit on 4-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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Well, you can choose to not participate by judging members based on their choice of thread titles and I can judge you based on your sig.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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Yes, lets add to the ever growing list of things that we should or should not say here on ATS. Wonderful idea. Because you don't like something doesn't mean that everyone else is of the same opinion. While I agree with the use of NON-words, I can not agree with stiking them from use.
Why is it even an issue? Just ignore it. Just don't go to those threads.

From your post all I got was that you want a dull, gray board. What fun would that be? Why does is have to be all serious? 4 years, it comes and goes. It always does...



edit: Your signature is ironic.

[edit on 4-6-2008 by bobafett1972]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by Vanitas
 



i'm still trying to fathom just exactly what your saying.

derogatory or even marginally derogatory terms like 'sheeple' are not hateful terms (like honky or nigga or spik or nip...)


the current negative term is 'Islamo-Fascist' lumping all Muslims as Outlaws...i haven't seen/heard any backlash on that, yet...


i did a quick look-see of your list of post activity...
there's a deeper theme, or else a direction your mind is attracted to,

but from whats been threaded so-far...i can't give you a Star,
yet



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 07:44 PM
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It is funny how the common tv-censored expletives are censored yet other derogatory words which can have more of a negative effect on people are not. However, that extends well beyond ATS.

Like the drug use policy, I think the word censors here have more to do with keeping the site available to as many as possible.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by Vanitas
 


I dont think its the words so much themselves, its more the context they are used in. For example, being called ignorant or a disinformationist for merely disagreeing with anothers point of view. I wish that would stop



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Kruel
 


Yes, that's exactly what I am saying.
And while it's true that it's rampant, and by no means an exclusive characteristic of ATS, I don't think there's a good reason for ATS not to lead by (good) example and help stopping this sort of "communication".



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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derogatory or even marginally derogatory terms like 'sheeple' are not hateful terms (like honky or nigga or spik or nip...)


Oh yes, they are... I wish you were right, but they are just insulting without contributing anything to the "discussion".

As to "lumping", let's not even go there...
That's a tough one, of course, and it cannot be avoided as easily as simply preventing the use of gratuitous insults. But at least "fascist" is a historic term, carrying its own defined weight - which means it can be refuted (or not) on the basis of its assigned value.

"Sheeple", of course, has no such value.
Which is why I don't think it should be tolerated in discussions, however heated.

And yes, I am certainly interested in "deep" issues. :-)
Which is precisely why I am so acutely aware of the power of words.







[edit on 4-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by Vanitas
 


I dont think its the words so much themselves, its more the context they are used in.



That is true of genuine adjectives, such as "ignorant" etc.
I am not against those. (Although I wish as much as you that would stop. But I suppose it's too much to expect from people who use them as "argumentation" to realise how bad such terms makes them look.)

What I am against is the use of words (including coinage) meant exclusively and unambiguously as insults.







[edit on 4-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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Well, if "hate" is bad, then prove "hate" wrong.
And if you can't prove hate wrong, then why is hate bad?
How is the intolerance expressed in the word "sheeple" different from your feeling that the word "sheeple" should not be tolerated?
I think as long as people avoid name-calling, and the ad hominem fallacy, it would all ultimately lead to better thinking, if we live long enough.
And name-calling and ad hominem don't need to be forbidden, they just need to be recognized as the harbingers of weak arguments, so then the people making actual points tend to disdain their use.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:23 PM
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As this site becomes more popular and thus profitable, we will see more and more of a shift toward tolerance of abusive discourse on the site.

Quite simply, it's all about the ratings and audiences love to watch people shout and call names and be as outrageous as possible. Our society feeds on it. Look at the popularity of reality TV and political pundit screaming match side-shows.

You will also see a slow exodus of "truth seekers" to be slowly replaced by an influx of those who have a fixed agenda or those who simply want to see some blood spill (figureatively speaking).

By then many of us discussing in this thread, will be long gone.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by clay2 baraka
 




Very well said.

(I wish I could give you a "star", but apparently I can't.)



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Vanitas


"Sheeple", of course, has no such value.
Which is why I don't think it should be tolerated in discussions, however heated.



can you tell me where, how the compound term 'Sheeple' came about?

i figure that 'people' is a given
I also figure that the 'Shee' can cut both ways...

the Shee of sheeple must mean sheep.. which can either reflect the behavior of the fraidy-cat, seemingly mindless flocks of sheep in nature.

or --- and here's the perplex conundrum --- Sheep is the term used in the early Christian Church for the congregation, now 'sheep' in that sense was not demeaning or a degradation to the community (aka: flock)

but now-a-days, the compound word 'Sheeple' has a negative connotation,
mostly pounded into our minds by several internet personalities (U know whom) implying sheeple are mindless followers


~~~~~~~~

just to let others know,,,

you can't give clay a 'star' because this is in the 'board business' section--- hence no points, nor stars,

there isn't a program or cut throat conspiracy going on...

[edit on 4-6-2008 by St Udio]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by nine-eyed-eel
 



I have to prove that hate is "bad"...?
I think that encapsulates pretty well the atmosphere of a great part of ATS...


I could, of course.
Everything and anything can be "proven", if there is a determined set of precepts or laws of the game (whatever the game is).

But why on Earth would I want to spend even a minute of my time doing that?
I don't have to, and I won't.
Instead, I'll just surf away...






[edit on 4-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:37 PM
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I hear you. One of my pet peeves is folks who paint with a broad brush. "X" does "Y". It presumes that ALL X's do Y, when in fact, maybe it's just a fraction of the total demographic that do Y. This is present on most of the online forums I frequent, and I don't know the solution. If a person points out that folks are generalizing, then that can be construed as trolling a thread. I guess we have to just push on, saying what we feel, telling it from the heart.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by St Udio
 



I think it's pretty clear where it came from, St Udio.
And if it ever was "egregious" (in a negative sense), it has caught and now you can see it everywhere...


I am telling you, I am starting to miss the good old F word...
And that's something I would never have thought I'd say!





[edit on 4-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Vanitas

Nobody agrees?

Nobody disagrees?


[edit on 4-6-2008 by Vanitas]


Disagree.

More rules aren't the answer. In fact, this is a proposed solution to something that isn't a problem. I think my skin is thick enough to withstand being referred to with the term "sheeple."



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by jamie83
 



Then I suppose you are all for expletives and drug talk, too?

Because I am, too.

It won't do this site or the people who visit it any good, but I am all for it.
It's the double standards in "censorship" that I find offensive most of all.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:48 PM
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In my humble opinion "sheeple" is an excellent descriptive word.

I remember the first time I saw the word sheeple was in a magazine article concerning The John Birch Society in the mid 1980's.

How can the word sheeple be said to have no value? It clearly defines a large portion of our population who plod along doing as they are instructed, never questioning our government.

Surely we don't need anymore restrictions as to our language use here at ATS.

I find it snobbish to be offended by descriptive words that are not vulgar.

Maybe we should all be sheeple and adhere to a set list of words we can use in our posts. I think not.



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