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# Mass: Does light have Mass?

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posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 01:35 PM
Heres a good thinker.

I'm not entirely convinced light lacks mass as Photon(ic) energy.

Sure light lacks what is known as 'rest mass', or zero proper mass, but does this mean light lacks mass altogether? Light does in fact achieve and is affected by momentum, wouldn't this indicate mass of some kind? I mean if it can be moved or measured..wouldn't "it" have mass of some kind? otherwise how is it calculated?

any thoughts would be great.

Once we get this all discussed, can anyone tell me why there is NO such thing as Grape Pie?

posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 02:15 PM
reply to post by GodMode

Good question...found this...

Q: Do photons have mass? If not, why does the gravitational field of a star bend passing light?

A: No, photons do not have mass according the present definition of mass. The modern definition assigns every object just one mass, an invariant quantity that does not depend on velocity, says Dr. Matt Austern a computer scientist at AT&T Labs Research. Under this definition, mass is proportional to the total energy, Eo, of the object at rest.

From Does light have mass?

posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 02:27 PM
right on thanx...lol nice pic!

posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 02:28 PM
Massless = 2D. And what happens when you have a massless 2D particle in 3D space? It flattens out to infinity.

There was an experiment (I can't seem to find it atm) but if you'll remember, someone did a test by "splitting" a photon and observing the two travel in different directions. It was found that they both behaved the same, as if somehow "communicating" with each other.

Communicating?
Not quite... here's another way of looking at it:

The light is singular and formless. Photons are all connected because they're all part of the same essence.

So while you think the flashlight you turn on is emitting light, it's actually just emitting waves which interfere with other waves and are illuminated by the light which was already present to begin with.

It brings into question the "speed of light". I make a distinction between observable light and castable light.

posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 02:45 PM
ok then how is it possible to make solid light from a mass-less form? high energy light used as a laser...wouldn't it need some form of mass to exist and be transmuted into diff forms? makes no sense to me at all. How can we calculate something that has no 'mass weight'? How does one measure something that seemingly doesn't exist? If light generates heat and other forms of energy do these forms of energy come from...where?

by the way..please address question number two....Why is there no such thing as Grape pie? we have every imaginable grape spin-off known to man but no pie......hmn.

posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 02:49 PM
You've never had grape pie? Sigh, you're missing out.

Here's a good recipe for you.

Grape pie - yummy

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:01 AM
Now imagine that such a monoatomic "chain" was superheated before it was propelled whilst cooling on the way. We already know the mass is altered whilst the element is at different temperatures.
What law of thermodynamics? It is starting to sound more like a theory every day....

3. A Pearl Necklace... much better analogy and simple too.

Such chains are to be aligned within nanotubes made out of whatever material found to be the least reactive to the element you are using as your drive mechanism. These nanotubes are to be converted to plasma...

This is just one way of manipulating the mass of the elements contained within... and even then only in a very specific type of complex drive system.

Monoatomic elements will react and unpredictably, and when you are dealing with them in an individual capacity they cannot be reliably used for any such system here On earth.

These structures (dealt with in this capacity) are far from "Noble", and can only be applied with efficacy in one environment.

4.Imagine this... You string 13 baseballs together and attempt to throw them all by heaving the first one with all your might... after all 13 balls is hard to throw, and they are strung together, so it is quite hard for you to manage them... in this environment..

Suppose however, when you threw that first baseball in the chain of balls, the rest got up and followed it BUT you only had to exert enough force to throw the ONE baseball...

Similar things can happen... with monoatomic elements BUT only under certain conditions.

This is an simplified analogy, but it is important for us Humans to know such information.

5. Plasma? Nanotubes?

This guy must be nuts... but just how do you think this "chain" of monoatomic elements would reconfigure themselves in a plasma environment?

Answer this and you'll know why Plasma is preferable to ANY kind of metal vapours, gases or otherwise.

Magnets do play a role, just not primarily for containment.

Think beside the box on this one guys...

6. The system I talked about HAS been built, IS being used and does NOT go faster than the speed of light.... Read my previous posts... the ones wherein I specifically put some info you haven't read in any book or website.

7. Ask me the right questions and I'll give the right answers. This will ensure that those who intend to pursue this topic will have what they need to do so and I can better communicate the requested data to you.

I don't enforce any of my non-medical patents, so feel free to use the info to expand your minds... which is what is why we are here.

8. Such chains are to be aligned within nanotubes made out of whatever material found to be the least reactive to the element you are using as your drive mechanism. These nanotubes are to be converted to plasma...

This is just one way of manipulating the mass of the elements contained within... and even then only in a very specific type of complex drive system.

Monoatomic elements will react and unpredictably, and when you are dealing with them in an individual capacity they cannot be reliably used for any such system here On earth.

These structures (dealt with in this capacity) are far from "Noble", and can only be applied with efficacy in one environment.

(rep.)9. Imagine this... You string 13 baseballs together and attempt to throw them all by heaving the first one with all your might... after all 13 balls is hard to throw, and they are strung together, so it is quite hard for you to manage them... in this environment..

Suppose however, when you threw that first baseball in the chain of balls, the rest got up and followed it BUT you only had to exert enough force to throw the ONE baseball...

Similar things can happen... with monoatomic elements BUT only under certain conditions.

This is an simplified analogy, but it is important for us Humans to know such information.

10. You have just touched on another of my designs called a Compulsion Drive or Compellor Drive. Hopefully more people will think of it.

By creating a "black hole EFFECT" in front of the craft and with proper containment you can influence velocity and direction (to an extent) of whatever object is in the immediate vicinity... many uses for such a device.

However, since no such anomaly can be sustained, it would have to be repeatedly reformed to continue acceleration .

Because of this unfortunate limitation, any such drive that we would currently make could only be considered "Impulse drive" (star trek?) at best...

Would you like to know more? Ask away.

11. Build such a device? I am not a country, I'm just a person.

No one person could ever construct such a device. I wouldn't bother entertain the idea of building any of my non-medical patents, these patents serve a purpose all their own.

You cannot currently create a black hole in space, you can however create something similar here on earth and bring up to space with you.

Then you can initiate a "controlled" release to get a "predictable" reaction.
I really must choose use those terms loosely... especially concerning predicting directionality.

The math can be done and is used heavily to represent the function of various parts within such drive systems as representations of the technology present on the area of a device.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:02 AM
12. If we could trick the Universe into thinking that we were heavier than we actually are, faster than light speed become feasible.

13. I don't know how to "trick" the universe in any such way... I was just trying to help people understand that conventional science does not impose as many limits as we are led to believe.

You do not have to redesign the laws of physics to travel extremely ridiculously fast.

As for explaining an already oversimplified analogy, that I will not do.

There is info in this thread that you will find in nowhere else, that I can assure you of. So no, I will not give away any more of my money, as the math took years to do and the concepts alone are extremely valuable.

I will however answer any questions that you cannot figure out by looking at the given info.

Time is money and this stuff takes time. I could be working on kidney implants right now... making money, instead of trying to teach the internet a new trick.

These are new concepts, all that is asked of you is that you think about them, even if you will never be able to apply them in your life.

14. To those of you who have researched, even slightly some of the ideas that were discussed here, I commend you all.

Apparently a misunderstanding regarding the application of the various systems discussed has arisen.

This if for a good reason, and yes I was using a basic psyche technique in my presentation. At least you noticed the effort... thank you.

Now, why has this misunderstanding arisen? On purpose.

I purposely did not clarify many of my points, causing you to do some learning which you apparently have now done. Now you want to know the rest.

15. Concerning the use of monoatomic elements;

Such elements are the primary means of propulsion within a spacecraft.
Such technology CANNOT function on earth, even in a vacuum, although tests regarding yield and energy can be conducted here on Earth.

Ask yourself why you have never heard of a particle accelerator being put in space... maybe one already has.

How would you align such unstable elements and prepare them for propulsion? Nanotubes.

A specifically constructed nanotube can be selected to hold the elements in alignment, and then be converted to plasma as both a means of heating and further aligning the elements present within.

The materials used for such a housing mechanism must be carefully selected according to its willingness to react with monoatomic elements.

Stabilization of this "chain" is key in such device. Several other events can only happen if precipitated by this process. These events are listed in the thread, some in "question" form.

I will add more later, I'm just glad to see we are starting to get back on the same page.

16. Remember when I said that if you could trick the universe into thinking you were heavier than you are, you could exceed light speed...

Well you would be surprised to know that you don't have "alter the vibrational state" of a vessel, as you only have to trick the universe into think that your Primary Drive mechanism is heavier than it is.

The gov. must be very happy that civilians now know this stuff

17. Imagine you were One atom heavier than you actually are...

...You can now travel the "speed of light+1atom@assumedrate"

that is to say, the universes is now imposing limits that greater your "potential" for speed.

That is to say, being lighter than the Universe Assumes you are, you can now exceed the limitations imposed on you in your prior unaltered condition.

But remember,it is this "potential' is what has been artificially created, using processes previously discussed. You are not actually gaining mass.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:02 AM
18. Think of a space journey as a constantly evolving equation;

Think of the Primary Drive impactions as a variating variable. That's right... variations within a variable (OMG my mind) that are constantly changing in relation to position of the vessel within space, the conditions of space within the vessel, and the elements occupying that particular small space which can be influenced by Humans.

So immediately after leaving you point origin, the equation begins, in fact it is practically solved by the time you are traveling in the right direction at a predicted rate of speed.

But just as your journey is not yet complete, the nature of any equation is that is must be continually balanced.

Balance, as it were, would be said to be maintained within the functions of such a variable(represented by multiple related equations... presenting a whole new set of problems), and so it is this particular part of the equation that continues to evolve until the final destination has been reached... or the equation has been "solved"...somewhat

But as you are only ever working with Probabilities, your equation will never be truly solved... as you cannot come to the same conclusions twice. However, your answers will be quite similar in each case.

This is Quantum theory at this point.

19.Who here knows what happens when you force a particle to act in a wave function whilst in the vaccuum of space?

How does that Affect the impaction of the resulting wave/particle combo on an object?

How is is the emission source of these impactions affected, assuming they are constant and at and increasing rate?

Where does this excess energy come from?

20. I often find myself posting questions I already know the answers to.

It just feels so wrong just giving away concepts and idea to those who aren't ready yet.

Have you ready my humongous post earlier?

This ties in directly with one of the drive systems discussed.

Here goes another?

We now know that the monoatomic elements has been arranged in a chain.
The chain has been stabilized within a nanotube. The nanotube will soon become plasma.
Plasma helps to further align a monoatomic chain whilst increasing the potential energy that can be accessed by us from this universe.

We are talking about an exponential increase depending on how long the elements can be held in this state before "impact."

But what are they impacting? Think Quantum.

Now take your famous double-slit theories and try to apply this to that.

The energy released is more than what is contained by the chain of elements and the plasma surrounding it. How could this be?

This is supposedly impossible. The law of thermodynamics prohibits it... and we are the only ones who actually enforce this law on each other.... strange.

A law saying what you can and cannot think about, as we have decreed it to be impossible.... before we had a even small percentage of the knowledge pertaining to quantum physics that we do now.

21. One of my designs faced several unforeseen problems.

It turned out that the system for monitoring and controlling particle discharge had to be wholly unmanned.

Even in proof of concept experiments, this was the case. It soon became apparent that we could not even have anyone in the same building who was aware of the nature of the experiments taking place. They in fact, had to leave the campus.

This anomaly persisted until we were made aware of the influence that we had over this experiment just by knowing about it and being in the vicinity of the tests.

We weren't even acting as an "observer," we were simply aware of the nature of the experiment.

We then concluded that such a system could only be possible if the "operational" controls were unmanned and the "pilots" completely unaware of the nature of the drive system they were using.

Such systems being highly complex and in need of constant re-adjustment and human attention, forced us to conclude that as a means of space travel, Humans aware of the nature of their engine would have to be at a minimum 1200 meters away from the device itself.

One earth, distances exceeding 400 meters would allow for the experiments to go ahead and the equipment to function as predicted.

This is was all hypothetical to a point, but nonetheless it was one of the conclusions drawn from this series of experiments.

Our hypothesis was not correct, but the observations and results were amazing. However, we considered the whole thing a success.

We merely included the reference to space travel (in our conclusion) as a possible use for such a device, and it wasn't until years later that I began refining the ideas for my own purposes.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:03 AM
I neglected to add info regarding the application of a plasma state in relation to the actual "projectiles"

The Plasma serves to align the monoatomic chain whilst simultaneously stimulating the known qualitative anomalies... depending on situation of the device.

Plasma is not important, what is important is the purpose and role it plays in stimulating the desired action of a monoatomic chain... "quantum cohesiveness".

This chain is only sustained long enough to be propelled into a point of infinite divergence. Whereby an effect similar to that created by the "double-slit" experiment occurs. However, not all of the aligned particles will become waves... these 'survivors' will serve to amplify the energy output of said wave functions.

These 'survivors' also lose some of their energy to a wave form.

Who knows why?

The Universe is playing games with us.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:03 AM
The various concepts I conveyed in my prior message are all part of a larger system. I will explain.

Travel at high sub-light speeds is something that the public already knows about. The public has also been manipulated in to continuing to believe that faster of light travel is impossible. We actually have a self-imposed "Law" prohibiting and limiting the possibilities we may mentally pursue; The Law of Thermodynamics.

In response to your inquiry as to the ultilization of a "gravity-well" type effect;

No. I have not included that as a viable system as I do not know how to replicate such an effect.

I understand why you brought it up ("black hole effect"), as I did include it as an answer to a question posed by a student.

The concept I the question was in reference to was related to the idea that
if you could "trick" the universe into thinking you were heavier than you actually are, You would be operating under a new set of rules, set by the universe according to what she it your mass is.

(Simplified) Think of it as throwing a ball, and running to catch it. You expend less energy than you would if you have carrying it. Well not really, but it is similiar to that. You lose mass only to gain it when you finally get to where you are going.

Except in this case, with these concepts applied, you wouldn't just be throwing one ball and running to catch it, you would be throwing dozens of balls chained together, and yet it would only require you to exert enough force to throw the mass of just one baseball... but you would be catching all of them and feeling their full force.
See (Points 12,16,17,18)

There are three drive mechanisms discussed in my last message, each one to be used at a different speed. They are complimentary and will only function under certain conditions.
See (Points 18,19,20,21)

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