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Obama. A View From Scotland

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posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by shauny
 



Thank you. As an American who voted for Obama, I agree with you. I've traveled Europe much of the past year and have really noticed why other countries don't like us.

With Obama, we can be safe, secure, employed - AND we don't have to be the aggressive bullies that the world hates. We'll save money by not continuing the losing war in Iraq and by not invading (bullying) countries like them.




posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by JesterMan
...The freedoms we have make our country so great not our approval rating. Call it ethnocentric, I call it PATRIOTISM.

---GOD BLESS AMERICA


One ATS member, can't remember who (might even be one of the Amigos) has as his signature:

'Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.'

I think that's rather poignant, don't you? To openly disagree with, and criticise, your government is an act of supreme patriotism.

Let's think about that for a moment, shall we?

Cheers.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by shauny
 


Living outside the USA as most of the world's citizens do, I knew Obama only from soundbites and the odd sentence broadcast on the MSM until a couple of extended visits to the USA this year proferred the opportunity to listen to some of his extended speeches and debates in which he was questioned in detail and at length.

I have to say I was very impressed. His intellect is MILES ahead of that exhibited by the current president. He's IMO in a different league.

The worry is that he will feel, or be advised, to play the politician and moderate his message to pacify constituencies who may be either hostile or nervous about him as president. I hope he sticks to his convictions, because that's when he really shines and will win real respect. If I were a US citizen, Obama's continuous and unwavering opposition to the invasion of Iraq, right from the beginning, and his declared intention to get the troops out, would be enough for me to vote for him no matter what else he stands for.

If elected, I would predict that within four years the world at large will have a much more positive view of the United States. This will bring a dividend of increased security for the USA and, one hopes, a more relaxed, confident and respected nation which slowly returns to livig by its own Constitution and Bill of Rights following the disastrous and wayward years of the Bush Administration.

He is going to inherit one God-Almighty economic mess in January, and good luck to him in sorting it out. He's gonna need some help and support, but I believe he could do it.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by JesterMan
As an American all I can say is that we don't really care what the rest of the world thinks.(not a personal attack on you) Regardless of how many people in other countries hate us, we still know that we are the greatest country on earth. Why else would so many people come here? Its not because of the food(WTH is up with bologna anyway?) I really dont think that any President will be able to change the world view of the USA, and quite honestly that doesnt bother me at all.


This is all to true. Furthermore, India, which is a nation that has a population 3x the size of Europe's, is the most pro US country on the planet, dispelling the myth that the US is widely hated abroad. I do not contest the fact that the US is not popular in the ME, along various places in Europe, I do think it has more to do with a bit of envy, as well as a bit of jealousy. The EU is impotent, and unable to solve many of the worlds problems, this in stark contrast to Americas ability.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS


Thank you. As an American who voted for Obama, I agree with you. I've traveled Europe much of the past year and have really noticed why other countries don't like us.


Europe is not the whole world.



We'll save money by not continuing the losing war in Iraq and by not invading (bullying) countries like them.

Note the bold: that is in stark contrast to what General Petreyus has said. The surge has worked. The US is actually not losing the conflict (which is what it has boiled down to) but is in fact winning it.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by pavil
 


I'm with you pavil. I've been asking that same question for several months to no avail.


I'm not an Obama basher, just genuinely curious about what he's going to change. Frankly speaking, it's going to take a lot more experience than what he's bringing to the table IMO. He's going to have the most thankless, criticized job in the world and I don't know if he's really prepared for it.

And, sadly, I think there will always be a reason out there for other countries to hate us. No mind who the president is. I just believe it will always be a cross that America and Americans will have to bare (bear?). Maybe I will be proven wrong. I hope so.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by soldiermom
 


Again, the US is not hated as much as one would think. In europe, they hate us for our environmental stand point, as well as our foreign policies that often times affect them directly (which was something that I recall they did not bitch about during the cold war). The middle east hates us for our ongoing support for Israel, etc.

India, which has a population three times greater than the whole of Europe, is the most pro US nation on the planet.

Everyone hates the king of the hill, the same analogy holds true when speaking of America and the hate it receives today.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:44 PM
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There is no shortage of idiots anywhere in the world.

But an idiot with the most powerful military arsenal known in human history...well there aren't too many of those around and hopefully there will be one less after the election.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by Leo Strauss
But an idiot with the most powerful military arsenal known in human history...well there aren't too many of those around and hopefully there will be one less after the election.


After the election there will be a flip flopper idiot or an idiot that thinks he is divine so don't hold your breath.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by bovarcher
This will bring a dividend of increased security for the USA and, one hopes, a more relaxed, confident and respected nation which slowly returns to livig by its own Constitution and Bill of Rights following the disastrous and wayward years of the Bush Administration.


HAHA the government of the U.S. has not been following the Constitution for decades. Do you think a guy that has an aversion to the 2nd amendment will return the U.S. to living by the Constitution?



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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This is not meant to be disrespectful in any way.

That said, I'm not sure that the selection of POTUS is something that should be made based on how a candidate makes the average person in a foreign country feel about the U.S.

From the looks of things around the world, I would say that people in other countries would be better served by taking a closer look at their own leaders and not worrying so much about the POTUS.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by jpm1602
Jesterman.....winners don't often stop to tally the dead either. Who really wins?


The last man standing!



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by West Coast
 


Valid point. Plus I really don't see how a man that is married to a woman that dislikes american and for the FIRST time this year said she was proud to be an American is really going to do any good for this country, let alone the world.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 02:10 AM
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I could really do some hardcore flaming against the patriotic - "God bless America, Halleluja!" - idiots in this thread, but I wont.

All I will say is that Obama cannot possibly deliver everything he has promised. He is going to be, as kacou said, the American version of Tony Blair. No doubt American's will feel just as disenfranchised as they did with Bush after a couple of years.

Not that you could have done anything about it. Since you don't really elect your president anyway.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 03:46 AM
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Maybe it's different for the Scots, but I find it laughable that anyone actually believes that whatever figurehead occupies the oval office has anything other than a highly superficial influence over events.

The US presidency used to have a little more tooth, but not anymore. People's memories are soooooo short. Remember the real Clinton? How many "unjust, inhumane, whiny-poo-poo" military actions did he authorize? Lots of 'em!

Obama is already talking about how he's gonna take down Iran. wtf?
Scotsman? anyone?

It's all spin and pacification. You vote for style, NOT content here.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:08 AM
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I dunno why but i get a bad feeling about Obama, seems a little too good to be true. i think when he comes into power some bad sh*t is gonna go down. dont ask me why, it's just a feeling. but at least its not gonna be hilary in the white house



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 04:31 AM
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Wow, any preconceived views I had of Americans has been well and truly blown out of the water, not just by reading ATS, but also how this whole campaign has panned out:

* Everybody wants guns

* Everybody is scared of 'the black man'

* Everybody is already scared by the government, hence the need for guns

* Any exceptions to these rules are 'fringe' or America-hating white trash

I'll add that this is the conclusion I've come to after taking an interest in yankee-doodle.

After 8 years of Bush, I would've thought that people would've liked 'change'. But that seems to be a swearword over there if it isn't in the strictest of contexts - "Change?! Get out! What do you mean?!"

Ugh, I could go on, but it's your country guys. Keep it that way if you want. I don't hate America or Americans in any sense, shape, or form, you're just a very confusing bunch.





posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:51 AM
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posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by JesterMan
 


The freedoms you have you say! Dont make me laugh, you cant walk ten foot without feeling the red dot of survielance equipment burning the back of your heads, you really believe you are free in your great country, your not as clever and free as you think you are pal....



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by thejon1982
 


Of course bad # will go down, Americans think they have the freedom of choice, the same people control both partys, its impossible to win, if the cadidate dosent serve the interests of the elite they wont make president, its as simple as that...



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