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Exclusive: First Iran-made Multiple Launch Rocket fired from Gaza

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posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


Only when Pakistani civilians are killed in the attacks. Other times they would claim they are the ones who did it, even though there were American hellfire missiles remanents in evidence that suggested otherwise. There is no oops sorry for firing into Pakistan. The Pakistani govt. has allowed it. Dozens of times already.

Also think about the supporters of the Taliban and their Muslim brothers in Pakistan watching as the Pakistani govt. keeps allowing American missiles hitting in Pakistan. How mad they are, yet the Pakistani govt. does nothing about it.

[edit on 3-6-2008 by deltaboy]




posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by The Nighthawk


Please provide reliable, independently verified proof of this statement that did not come from either the US or Israeli intelligence services.


www.nybooks.com...

The movement first emerged during Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon, in which between twelve and nineteen thousand Lebanese died, most of them civilians and many of them Shiites. Militant followers of the Ayatollah Khomeini, Hezbollah's original cadres were organized and trained by a 1,500-member contingent of Iran's Revolutionary Guards, who arrived in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley in the summer of 1982, with the permission of the Syrian government. For Iran, whose efforts to spread the Islamic revolution to the Arab world had been stymied by its war with Iraq, Hezbollah provided a means of gaining a foothold in Middle East politics.


Based on facts.




Well, considering how many South and Central American nations we've sent Special Forces to in order to train terrorists and insurgents to overthrow democratically-elected governments, maybe you've got a point. We can't really expect we're the only players to use proxies to fight our battles.



Well that pretty much just counter the argument about Iran's involvement when you backed up about U.S. involvement in South America. After all, Hezbollah can't just use rocks eh? If Iran wants Israel out, what better way than to use Hezbollah for that purpose when not wanting to get in a real fight with Israel.

[edit on 3-6-2008 by deltaboy]



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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Rook do you support the encirclement of our ally Israel by forces trained and supplied by Iran the main pillar within The Axis of Evil? Iranian proxies on three Israeli fronts. Who do you bat for Rook? To me you sound like a spanner in the works..................................



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
Rook do you support the encirclement of our ally Israel by forces trained and supplied by Iran the main pillar within The Axis of Evil? Iranian proxies on three Israeli fronts. Who do you bat for Rook? To me you sound like a spanner in the works..................................


As long as Israel is trained and supplied by the US (not trained so much, but definitely supplied), then yes I do support it. Who is going to keep the Israelis in check? Not the US, they have SFA in regards to keeping Israel in check. As long as the Israelis keep treating their countrymen (and yes they are their countrymen), like the Germans treated the Jews back in the second World War, I will support any group that tries to stop it. Who is more evil in the situation, the group that is arming a resistance movement to stop their own genocide, or the people engineering the genocide. Be honest with yourself on that. This is not a black and white situation, and neither party is 100% innocent, nor guilty, it is a very gray area. I am not standing up for Iran or Palestine because of religious reasons, I am standing up for them because quite simply, someone has to. If I have to hear people spout off about the murdering neanderthals in the middle east, those people have to hear me spout off about the west being no better.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by Rook1545
I see no problem with Iran arming these people. If Israel is going to shoot at Palestinians with tanks and attack helicopters, I would think that rocket fire would work better than the rocks they were using before. If it is ok for the US to arm one side of this conflict, why is it not ok for the other side to be armed as well? Or is this another blind double standard?


I do see a problem with Iran arming these groups and specially with this kind of weapons. The problem been that this weapons are meant to kill amd terrorize civilians, my point been that there is no guidance systems in this type of weapons systems, there is no way for Hamas to tell (although I really doubt they care) if they shooting to a legitimate military target or just shooting blind in the hopes of killing whatever, which could cause a serious escalation in the conflict which at then end only going to hurt those who want to go about their daily lives with a chance of living a normal life on BOTH SIDES.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
Rook do you support the encirclement of our ally Israel by forces trained and supplied by Iran the main pillar within The Axis of Evil? Iranian proxies on three Israeli fronts. Who do you bat for Rook? To me you sound like a spanner in the works..................................


I don't think there is an "Axis of Evil". I think that's a made-up Boogeyman used by the corporate fascist elite to scare the weak-minded into supporting endless war for profit. Are there unfriendly nations? Yes. Many of them have valid reasons to be unfriendly. The fact we've mucked around in their sovereign affairs for decades is one. Israel's actions as an aggressor is another. Self-defense is understandable; leveling civilian neighborhoods with Apache gunships is not.

But is there a concentrated, organized conspiracy to destroy Israel and the US?

I do not believe so.

I think the real conspiracy, the real "Axis of Evil", has its center right here.

BTW, where's Osama? Why isn't he in custody? If Iran is the main pillar why were most of the 9/11 hijackers Saudi? Why do we rant about Iran wanting to spread their version of Islam when Saudi Arabia is far more repressive and the center of Wahabbism? Could it be that Saudi Arabia is behind some of this?



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Bunch
I do see a problem with Iran arming these groups and specially with this kind of weapons. The problem been that this weapons are meant to kill amd terrorize civilians, my point been that there is no guidance systems in this type of weapons systems, there is no way for Hamas to tell (although I really doubt they care) if they shooting to a legitimate military target or just shooting blind in the hopes of killing whatever, which could cause a serious escalation in the conflict which at then end only going to hurt those who want to go about their daily lives with a chance of living a normal life on BOTH SIDES.


If Israel doesn't care what kind of targets they hit, why should Hamas? The Israeli forces terrorize the Palestinian civilians, and no one bats an eye, yet when the Palestinians do it, it is a crime? I have seen people preach on here that all is fair in war, well, what goes around comes around.

edit to fix quoting

[edit on 3-6-2008 by Rook1545]



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Rook1545
 


Rook what is it with your logic? Israel is surrounded by three Iranian fronts. Three proxies in Lebanon, Syria and Gaza that threaten Israel and attack its civilians on a daily basis. Why don't you get into the shoes of an Israeli and feel how they feel? You answer this Rook...........

How would the USA react if likewise (a nuclear ambitious) Iran trained and supplied Mexico, Canada and Cuba with weapons of war to target and kill American people on a daily basis?



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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You know whats scary about this thread?People actually believe that hamas is a legitimate resistance group.Legitimate resistance implies hitting military targets.

Hamas ,hezbollah and islamic jihad are all guilty of suicide bombings.Suicide bombing is a crime against humanity.Although not recognized by the UN or countries of the world as such, it should be.They dont deserve ANY support at all for hitting innocent targets.Ironically most innocents who are killed are arabs which is also wrong!

They attack military forces then hide in civilian population centers,then cry foul counting on heart strings to carry them.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
How would the USA react if likewise (a nuclear ambitious) Iran trained and supplied Mexico, Canada and Cuba with weapons of war to target and kill American people on a daily basis?


How would Iran react if the USA trained and supplied Iraq with chemical and biological weapons to be used for killing Iranian civilians on a daily basis?

Oh wait--THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED!!



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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This debate is like arguing over what color is the prettiest.
The military industrial complex has no Country. If they find themselves short a war, they will provoke one. Amadenajad is around because he is great for business.
Some of you seem to think that if everybody had big "deterents" that they would then be afraid or restrain from fighting, obviously not true.
Where the weapons come from? who cares. That won't start WWIII, we make war when we want and finding reasons for it is no challenge.
To be even more cynical (if that is possible) Greed is what keeps WWIII a fiction. China needs us and we need them. Russia wants to be a player in the global market too. None of them gives a rats ass about peace in the middle east. So, if Hamas gets some new toys, it just makes it easier for Israel to use some of their toys and then buy more toys. Business as usual.
So is there really any reason to debate on who is supplying who and who has what new weapons?
.....I tell ya what you should debate is Blackwater buying and being allowed to buy a fighter plane. Why? Who is in charge of this private army? Does the executive branch have their own private army??
---------alright no more straying, I just don't see the point of caring who has what weapons and who is supplying them if in fact these Countries are just pawns anyways.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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What all the Duke-Nukems here don't seem to understand, is that Hamas, Hesbolla and Seria (sic) are all legitimate parts of the elected governments in their respective countries and they can buy their weapons wherever they like.

Hamas IS the elected government of the Palestinians, Hesbolla holds over 20% of Lebanese political seats, and Syria is a sovereign nation. Iran recognizes all three and is not breaking any laws by selling them weapons.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by Rook1545
 


Rook what is it with your logic? Israel is surrounded by three Iranian fronts. Three proxies in Lebanon, Syria and Gaza that threaten Israel and attack its civilians on a daily basis. Why don't you get into the shoes of an Israeli and feel how they feel? You answer this Rook...........

How would the USA react if likewise (a nuclear ambitious) Iran trained and supplied Mexico, Canada and Cuba with weapons of war to target and kill American people on a daily basis?


There is nothing wrong with my logic. Why do you insist on portraying Israel as the defenseless victim here? I already said neither side is innocent, you can't even admit that Israel adds to the situation with it's aggressive actions. I think the shoes of an Israeli are alot more comfortable than the shoes of a Palestinian.

You bring up a great point. How would the US react? Probably the same way that Iran is reacting to having Israel on one side, US forces in Iraq, and Afghanistan on the other sides. They would gather up some allies and arm them. Get some support so that when the terrorists attack they can defend their homeland from foriegn threats.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Justice11
You know whats scary about this thread?People actually believe that hamas is a legitimate resistance group.Legitimate resistance implies hitting military targets.

They attack military forces then hide in civilian population centers,then cry foul counting on heart strings to carry them.


So, are they legitimate or not?

And let me ask you this: If the UN decided the USA had to give up, say, New England to some group and that group was armed by Europe with high-tech wepons, tanks, gunship helicopters and fighter planes, and the inhabitants of the new New England region treated Americans still living there as second-class citizens, and actively sought more land through conquest--how do you think Americans, yourself included, would react?

Please, be honest.


Hamas ,hezbollah and islamic jihad are all guilty of suicide bombings.Suicide bombing is a crime against humanity.Although not recognized by the UN or countries of the world as such, it should be.They dont deserve ANY support at all for hitting innocent targets.Ironically most innocents who are killed are arabs which is also wrong!


If you were in their situation and you had nothing else, what would you use?

Understand something, people: The peoples of Palestine did not get the luxury of voting to take in the Israelis. They did not get a choice in the matter. Regardless of what ancestral claim anybody has to that region there were people living there legitimately who were forced out and those who stayed were crapped on daily.

In the minds of the Palestinians, the State of Israel and its citizens are occupiers, plain and simple, with no legitimate claim to the land--and I honestly can't fault them for that. Were we to be in that situation here we wouldn't be too happy about it either.

How many militias throughout the 90s and even today scream and moan about UN troops training on American soil to enforce the martial law of a one-world government?

It's the exact same thing.

Except, in the case of the Palestinians, it actually came to pass, while here it's still a vague threat claimed mostly by people on conspiracy websites.

Take off the blinders and try to understand that other people have rights too, whether we agree with their method or not.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by ufoorbhunter
 


Quick question and think about it:

Why... do you see Israel as an ally? What is the reason? What can they offer you/us? What "righteous" things have they done?

And please don't say "because my country tells me to..." Patriotism is dead. This is one world, one humanity. Anything else is for the purpose of having more than your neighbour at the cost of his life and your reason...

[edit on 3/6/08 by flice]

[edit on 3/6/08 by flice]



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Rook1545
 


The problem with your logic is that not only perpetuates the current situation of hostilities but increases the chances for an escalation to happens.

Look, we need to look to the future and try to find how this two sides can coexist in peace side by side, and I doubt that with this new development would get them closer to that.

Civilians deaths on both sides should be condemned, but I have live long enough to recognize which side has a policy of targeting civilians and what side has a policy of defending themselves, sometimes without taking into consideration civilians deaths which like I said should be condemned.

It is time for this two sides to get together and work for peace, Iran and the U.S. are just using these two contries as pawns on their silly game for dominance of the region.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Bunch
reply to post by Rook1545
 


The problem with your logic is that not only perpetuates the current situation of hostilities but increases the chances for an escalation to happens.

Look, we need to look to the future and try to find how this two sides can coexist in peace side by side, and I doubt that with this new development would get them closer to that.

Civilians deaths on both sides should be condemned, but I have live long enough to recognize which side has a policy of targeting civilians and what side has a policy of defending themselves, sometimes without taking into consideration civilians deaths which like I said should be condemned.

It is time for this two sides to get together and work for peace, Iran and the U.S. are just using these two contries as pawns on their silly game for dominance of the region.


You are pretty much right about that and I am not going to argue with the basis of what you said. I will add my piece to it.

To make it work both the US and Iran have to back off. That means both countries ahve to pull all support from their respected side. I think that without the backing of the US Israel will shrink a bit and realize that they might actually have to play nice in order to prevent war. I think that if they were to actually stop their land grabs, move the settlers out of Palestinian territory, and maybe give some back, they would prevent alot of rockets from falling on their heads.

Palestine would also have to give some here. While they are free to elect whoever they want, I think that Hamas should at least have to sign a treaty publicly, and privately condemning all violent acts against Israelis. Then follow through with punishment of any acts commited.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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For all of you folks who cry about the evil Isrealis and ho wthey treat the Palestinians please remember this. In 2006 the Hamas "government" and i use that term loosely took over Gaza. Hooray for democracy. At that piont they had their base, they controlled the government. All they had to do was agree that Isreal had the right to exist and stop the attacks over the border.

But NO, they cannot see that they are the problem. When the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jews, then maybe they can become the leaders they claim to be.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by capgrup
But NO, they cannot see that they are the problem. When the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jews, then maybe they can become the leaders they claim to be.


There are two sides to this issue, Israel and his land grabbing policies backed up by the U.S. should end and like Rook said should be given back to the Palestinian.

It should not take a expert to figure out that if you live in a land for a quite a while and then someone kicks you out for no reason that its going to create a resentment that would go beyond any religious based hatred. Add to that the consistent policy of expanding their land at the expense of others and you could see why the Palestinians would feel the way they feel about Israel.

I'm not denying that the palestinian/Israel conflict has some religious angles, but I think the main issue here is land, it just until recently that the religious aspect has become to flourish in this issue.

BTW, Hamas was democratically elected to government, sadly I might add, but it does not changes that fact.



posted on Jun, 3 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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And we can't believe Debka, it's a well known Mossad propaganda website, just like Memri. And so far, all the ``iranian weapons`` found in Iraq were proven to be russian or of some other origin, NOT iranian.

If the case was so clear, they would do a press conference, present hundreds of weapons with ``made in Iran`` on it, then would bring this to the UN then ask for a world force to invade Iran. Same thing with the nuclear weapon program allegations... it's nothing but allegations. Just remember Chalabi about Iraq and the Downing Street memo, as the whole US UAV painted in UN colours.




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