A real American campaign: Never vote Liberal

People come here and call me a radical right winger
They call me "baby rush" when its ybab hsur

and if you spell that backwards, its RUSH BABY, not baby rush.

People come here to flame my ideals that says that liberalism in and of its self is a radical notion and should never be trusted.

people thus presume that i am a radical right winger, though i've made zero assertion that i am 100% right wing.

Instead of challanging my opinions on the radical ideologies and blatant hypocrisies, they instead call me names and slander what they presume is my political standing.

You wanna know how to make sure that you're having an impact on someone? When they call you names and put you on the ignore list, having never tried to refute your claims.

I find it ironic that people come here to post, giving this thread more publicity (putting on the front page)
but arent actually interested in real debate. just more slander.

You can call my original topic "slander" if you want. The truth is, its not slander. If it were "slander" or more literally in our case "lible" then it would have to be proven to be completely false.

As nobody can do that, then you cannot call it slander or lible.
you can call it the truth

you can take that to the bank

You're welcome
-Ybab

reply to post by ybab hsur


From our Constitution:
Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

Calling 9/11 an inside job isn't treason. If 9/11 WAS an inside job than anybody helping to cover it up would be committing treason. If you're not feeding, hiding, or helping Osama or his goons than you are ok.

reply to post by ybab hsur


How exactly did I prove your point?

And just because somebody shares common views with liberal ideology does not make them liberal as you seem to suggest and then deny. Perhaps part liberal as you say but then (as i gather) insinuate that even one view from the liberal persuasion makes you a liberal, not unlike "the drop in the bucket" thing I read somewhere on ATS earlier.

So what is your straight forward thoughts on this matter? If you share even one common belief as a "liberal" you are a liberal or not? Or how many beliefs does it take to be considered a liberal or a conservative to you?

And no matter how much you wish it were so, questioning or thinking your government is filled with crooks is not treason.

reply to post by LiquidMirage


I stand 100% corrected

President Bush just lost even more credibility in my book.

Thank you for correcting me.

reply to post by AnOldFriend


I never said questioning your government was treason no matter what.

I said claiming that 9/11 was a bush inside job is treason.

There is zero proof to back it up, and its all slander and bush-hating propaganda. if you want to question authority - you have to have a basis

since they have no basis, i consider it treason
and you helped me by posting the definition of treason.

Your own posting of the defition of treason only further proves my point that what they engage in - is - treason.

In my reply there will be no name calling, no slander, nothing along those lines. Only my opinion which I will support with facts as best I can in the time I have.

First off, you claimed that there was no such thing as separation of church and state in the constitution. Now, my personal beliefs of religion aside, I'm almost certain that even though the words "separation of church and state" were not the specific words used, that was what the idea was supposed to imply.

Since you posted a Christian site for your information I find it plausible that I use an atheist one.

atheism.about.com...

To explain a bit, it goes on to show that the words "right to a fair trial" are not located anywhere in the constitution. Yet, the words do appear and show the idea of fair trials. The same goes for church and state.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

The Westboro Baptist Church is another point you brought up. Maybe freedom of speech is giving them their ability to do disgraceful, slanderous, unspeakable things, but how does that relate to liberals? I would like an explanation please. (Not a flame, just want an explanation.) And jsut because they say they are liberals on their website does not make them liberals. I could say I am a neo-conservative, but that doesn't make it anywhere near the truth.

You bring up flip-flopping as well. There is a difference between flip-flopping and switching your opinion based on the facts you are given. I can't say anymore until I know specifically what you are talking about.

Capital punishment is one of those issues that is really a personal opinion rather than a group mentality, as is abortion. Right and wrong are simply different ways to look at it. Someone's right is another's wrong. Abortion fits here as well.

I would also like a quote of someone saying "I think race-riots are totally justifiable." I haven't heard this one before.

That "great american film" you posted is just a highly conservative bashing of liberals. That is equivalent to calling the Da Vinci Code a great piece of historical documentation.

You also called the Third Reich a liberal regime. That is in no way true. Not to mention wikipedia is not a great source. I digress. If you look at that link, it clearly states that the Nazi's hated the liberalism of the Weimar Republic (the regime before the Nazi's).

Pick my statements apart if you wish to, but please refrain from saying what I said is slander, or wrong unless you wish to provide more data that acts as a counterargument to my ideas.

As a little end note, I don't consider myself a liberal, conservative, democrat, or republican. I take everything for what it is, and associate myself with nothing more than my own ideals.

First, you're not a part of my family, and you're obviously not the kind of American I want to be.

I have "bashed the leader of the free world" because he is no leader--at least not one that I can respect. As for protesting the burial of soldiers, I believe that any protest at a funeral is wrong and most liberals would agree; however, protesting the war is not the same thing.

As for ignorance and hyprocrisy, you can't point the fingers at liberals only. Your republican party is just as hypocritical and even narcissistic. Yes, liberals sold us out, but the conservatives are selling you out, too. They pander to your Christian values just to get your votes and then they do as little to live up to your promises as democrats do to live up to the promises they have made.

Why are conservatives ignoring McCain's flip flop or his refusal to really support the troops when it counts? Why does your party have to hide its agenda in necessary funding? (Of course, then I have to ask why the dems allows them to get away with it.)

Liberals tell you how to talk? Oh, you must mean political correctness. Unfortunately, that argument won't fly either since conservatives have kittens when liberals like the ACLU start fighting for the freedom of speech of people with whom you disagree. You're fine with freedom of speech as long as it matches your values.

Then there is the other hero's of the neocon movement

Oh, they're so busy using each other as scapegoats that it's hard to keep up.

As I said before, everyone in Washington is a hypocritical flip flopper. There is no one honest left in Washington, so you can get off the soapbox.

You and your kind have no problem killing a person for committing a crime; however, you want to save unborn fetuses for what? So that they can end up in some foster home or group home where they will be abused? You don't take care of the children who are suffering now. Why should you be trusted with the unborn?

A moment of silent prayer does indoctrinate my children to your way of thinking, which is against my rights as a parent; my choice to give my children condoms and teach them about sex and its consequences probably saves your children from being disowned by you for violating your moral code.

I don't condone violent criminal activity, but I understand the frustration of those for whom the police are not their friends and are not people who can be counted on to protect them. It must be great to live in your ivory tower and not see that life is not as great as it seems to be for you in your tower.

You've got us all wrong. We understand; we don't condone. Violence doesn't solve things, but when it's all people have, that's what happens.

No, separation of church and state is implied in religious freedom, which has been upheld by the Supreme Court on numerous occasions.

Why scream for a religion that does so much of its own screaming? Why scream for a religion that only wants to push its own values on everyone else and marginalizes anyone who does not follow their way of thinking? In other words, why support bigotry and hatred just because you think it's a good idea?

Affirmative action is no longer necessary in some places, but in certain parts of the country, minorities and women would have a much more difficult time finding work if affirmative action policies were not in place.

Actually, on the Waco point (and the parents who lost their children in Texas more recently), I happen to agree with you. They all deserve their day in court. Illegals, on the other hand, should be punished for violating our laws.

But then, hey, I'm not a democrat. I'm an independent, self-identifying as a constitutional libertarian. But you wouldn't know anything about the constitution or civil liberties.

Hpefully, your own words will be used against you some day.

Countries that go liberal no longer exist? Have you looked at Europe lately? They are all liberal and doing quite well.

Your little poem of sorts at the end is closed-minded, which I should expect because it's typical of your kind. I suppose you know little about your president or your candidate. You just trust them because they say that they espouse your values. But apparently, you are one of those who will be the downfall of this country because you refuse to see that there is more to this than liberal/conservative. So go ahead, vote for McCain. Nothing will change. Nothing will change no matter who is elected. When you realize this, you will be on the way to a freedom that actually brings us together, rather than pulling us apart.

Originally posted by ybab hsur
reply to post by AnOldFriend

 

I never said questioning your government was treason no matter what.

I said claiming that 9/11 was a bush inside job is treason.

There is zero proof to back it up, and its all slander and bush-hating propaganda. if you want to question authority - you have to have a basis

since they have no basis, i consider it treason
and you helped me by posting the definition of treason.

Your own posting of the defition of treason only further proves my point that what they engage in - is - treason.

So if I say "Bush is a retard" is that treason as far as your concerned? That would be an example of slander with out any evidence to prove it, would it not?

And as I have seen from browsing the 9/11 conspiracy forums here i have seen some things that make you question what happened, however not quite to the point were I agree with the 9/11 CT'ers.

reply to post by ybab hsur


I feel I should remind you that the people who started this country WERE committing treason against England.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is in the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
- The Constitution of the United States

Our current government is becoming destructive to the safety and happiness of the people. We have open borders..terrorists could just walk across..hundreds of Mexicans do it every day, if terrorists are such a threat why aren't the borders more secure? My safety is at risk ..imagine all the terrorists walking into this country. As for the happiness, the current government has racked up an insane national debt and prices for everything are skyrocketing. Most people aren't happy not being able to afford to live.

Here is what I find funny. For the last 7 years Bush has completely undermined the constitution that he swore to protect.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
- United States Oath of Office

5 years later:
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"
- George W. Bush

If this is the kind of person who deserves respect.....then wow.
Maybe we could call Bush's last 7 years the ..."War on the Constitution" and since the Constitution is the basis and law of the United States...it could also be called "The War on the United States"

Wait...thats in there too:

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The constitution is the basis for everything in this country and trying to undermine our law system is criminal. I don't understand why some people don't realize this.

Alot of peoples excuses for supporting the patriot act is "I like it because it makes me feel secure and we are more free because of it"

Well, another founding father has summed that one up:

"Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin


“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.”
- James Madison

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
- James Madison

If we don't wake up, we are going to lose our country. It's not a liberal or conservative issue...it's an American one, and the liberal/conservative debate is taking us further and further from any real action.






[edit on 2-6-2008 by blahblah123]

I opened this thread for a laugh but it really wasn't that funny. Anyone who's splitting people into groups such as "liberals" or "conservatives" is foolish since no individual has completely the same views as the next and both of those words are just buzz words leading to a negative stereotype. I don't even think there's a clear definition of what a liberal or a conservative is. People use these words when trying to rally people to their side or cause by vilifying "conservatives" or "liberals" to people who either agree with them or those that are undecided. It's strange to me that people still think along these lines.

[edit on 2-6-2008 by CuriousSkeptic]

God, what's more ironic; that the supposedly most intelligent people on the net always respond to the stupidest threads, or that me--the guy who calls them out on that incongruity--responds too? There's something to this whole vapidity of mass appeal thing...
Anyway, the OP fires of all the good ol' incendiary divisive firebombs without adding anything new. He/She even manages to be more dishonest in some of the ideas presented than the mainstream media would allow. Fact is the OP couldn't get a job as a copy writer at MSNBC and came here to vent about the the frustrations he/she is feeling as society slips away from the conservative grasp...
But, wait...
Don't worry!
No one scare people like the GOP, Mccain will probably be our next president; though, you'd probably be happier with Huckabee or anyone else that'd turn America into a theocracy similar to the ones we've been at odds with the past 8 yrs.

reply to post by stikkinikki


fighting period is stupid. "wtihout the 'want' to fight there will be no 'need' to fight"

reply to post by ybab hsur


First off, this is America..so, you are entitled to your opinions. However, you seem to be pretty much on target for defining liberals - yet, you act as though we should be offended or argue with you.

I am a liberal. Very, very much a liberal.

I love Bill Clinton, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he says.

I believe that freedom of speech means exactly that - FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I am pro-choice.

I am against the death penalty.

I support animal rights and the conservation of our forests.

I do not believe that a moment of prayer should be observed in the schools that my taxes pay for.

(Oh, and please spell "Separation of Church and State" correctly next time.)

Sex education is very important (in my sister's school here in the "Bible belt" where it isn't taught, she was in the 8th grade and thought she couldn't get pregnant her "first time.")

Multiculturalism IS a value - and if you don't agree then you're most likely a racist...which would not come as a surprise.

I think freedom of religion applies to ALL religions...or non-religions, or whatever the hell people choose to believe.

I'm not a supporter of affirmative action - it's only reverse discrimination.

And, being a Liberal makes me feel good. You are correct. I don't have to harbor hate and desperation as you seem to in your post. I don't have to constantly be judging someone or worrying myself with what others believe, think of me, where they go to church, if they agree with me, who they vote for, if they're in an interracial relationship, if they're gay, if they've had an abortion, if they are a vegetarian, etc, etc, etc. In fact, it's quite pathetic that you spend so much time worrying about "educating America."

You appear to be begging those who read your post to not vote "liberal," which, by the way isn't even possible. You are desperate because your party has lost control.

Unfortunately, you've only pointed out things that most liberals subscribe to -that's no feat. And, the points you've tried to make that are false, or which don't apply to all of us, are not relevant.

So, if you want a political debate (which is not necessarily what this site is for), then you need to do better than just pointing out ideals of liberals. We know this already.

Heres a fact....the majority of rich people are selfish and greedy.

Almost nothing can be proven. Psychic powers have more evidence than many scientific theories. As if the propoganda machine doesnt have paid off scientists. What can we trust as fact, except like my computer that obviously works.

what can anybody link as a fact? What does that prove? The internet and some dude wrote about a bunch of stuff he has researched. How can we see the flaws. HAve you ever read scientific articles. These egomaniac scientists dont bother explaining half the stuff. They just assume all the readers know everything.

the govt really cares so much about us. Yet we have inventors building over unity prototypes out of their garage to get us off oil. As if trillions of dollars spent in iraq wouldnt cause a breakthru in free energy.

Tesla was the worlds greatest inventor scientist. Fact! He knew free energy was possible. Wow, why do so many people not even know who he is. oh i know.

So lets get into the ME against U fights til kingdom come......as the rich guys laugh their way to the bank.

Just watch "Money masters" on google video and see all the quotes from the founding fathers, and many presidents. If it isnt clear by then i dont know what is.

HAHAHA the OP is a typical 22%er trying to act like his views matter. He's an extreme minority and his party is history. Nice tantrum though. I hope he decides to get the f^%# out of OUR country as his kind are no longer welcome here.

Oh yeah.. theres zero proof to back up Bush being involved in treason. Well everythigns classified. They can use that on anything. How can we prove anything. If theres nothing to hide, why dont we just give some group of outsiders from different groups for checks and balances and give them access to everything in all related areas. That wont happen and we know why.

Its not proof, its called evidence. And the observations made show alot of evidence. Only letting their own guys near the clean up site for one.

Give me a break.. They make all the rules to defend themselves not you. Is that proof no, some things are obvious and apparent.

Classic diversion....throw the burden of impossible proof on the other guy. Try reasoning the thousands of things going on. Every country i have traveled to i have seen the govt corruption in front of my eyes. Im sure our govt isnt corrupt. Doesnt matter whos in office, still corrupt.

Fell for the old dualistic thinking one. Your either with us or against us. Black and white. I only wish life was so clear. well not really.

Originally posted by optimistic skeptic
reply to post by ybab hsur

 

You are desperate because your party has lost control.

I disagree my liberal friend. It's not a party nor is it the parties that have lost control. It's We The People who have lost control! Thats the real problem.

ybab hsur

I stopped reading your *snip* at page 4 and after I finish saying what I've got to say I'll be done. It'll be my only contribution to this nutso thread and to your point tally. I don't know what rock you crawled out from under but your assertion that the Westboro Baptist Church is in fact, a liberal church, is quite possibly the most ridiculous, ludicrous, asinine, repugnant bit of trash I've ever read here. Moreover, it's a disservice to the integrity of this forum and to this website.

I'm a die hard liberal and I HATE that Church, I mean I LOATHE IT - for all the things we know it stands for and for the things we don't. Matter of fact, I can't even name one democrat who supports that farce of a church - I do know a few sad republicans however who do.

But more to the point - for you to suggest that because the WBC is allowed to say the things it does and do the things it does that they are enabled by Liberal politics is absolutely base. They are allowed to do the things they do because of their freedom of speech and of right to protest. Might I also add, in case you've forgotten that these are the same freedoms that our brave soldiers fight and die to preserve. It is not the liberal way to oppose our valiant troops. In fact, we support our troops as much as the next PATRIOTIC AMERICAN - I know I do. It is our work to protest the illegal war that they are being forced to wage. If that church were to be some how silenced by the government - as you allude to - you usher in fascism and the end to the FREEDOM that you supposedly hold so dear. If you are allowed to write the tripe that you've written here, are they not also allowed to write the equally absurd tripe that they do?

And just so I'm clear - I hate that church for poison that it preaches but thousands of men died so that they could preach it and if it came down to it - so would I - that's the Patriotic way. FREEDOM MUST NEVER BE ALLOWED TO BECOME A DOUBLE STANDARD.

I'm done with you.

edit to mods - if you see fit to point dock me I'm ok with that. I try to be as magnanimous as I can here but this just cut the cake for me.

[edit on 6/3/08 by WickedStar]

[edit on 6/3/08 by WickedStar]

[edit on 6/3/08 by WickedStar]

reply to post by LiquidMirage


I was referring to the Republican party losing control of the House and Senate. That's a fact and not up for debate...my friend.

reply to post by ybab hsur


Okay when Clinton was in office the gas prices were .89 cents. The economy was better and everything was cheaper. Bush administration has done nothing but start fake wars, drive up the cost of living, brain washed stupid Americans like you, the only republican that I would vote for would be Ron Paul, because he is the only hope. Mccain is going to get crushed come November, because people like me and everybody else I know are tired of this nonsense war, bush is oil buddies making millions off Americans and you can rant and rave all you want with the rest of the 25% that thinks bush is great. It shows that you have no clue and you remain stupid andf have to look at yourself everyday in the mirror.