Question about lead paint?

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posted on Mar, 2 2004 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by ashley
I am a painter and my father was a painter,my mother was an artist and my grandmother was an artist,my aunt was an artist and my cousin. Nowadays most paint that is worth using is 100% acrylic,even residential is (or should be if done properly) . Lead was phased out some time ago,10 or 15 years if i remember.
Anyways back to the topic...I think the lead removal or reformulation was mainly environmental and not health related,although health was a factor.
I have not seen any long term health problems due to lead paint,I think it was mostly scare tactic because some dumb mother who was not watching her kid, like she should, had her child eat some lead paint and probably got ill. Something bad will always happen to people like that anyways.
I guess everyone suffers now with more expensive,inferior products and more frequent repaints.
I think lead based paint is still available in other states. Im in california.



No, most cases of childhood EBL are related to exposure to lead dust, not from kids eating paint chips. this is a common misconception. (and a bit of snobbery also, just like your post indicates.
)

LBP was phased out in part because of the health concerns, and inpart because of the development of a cheap alternative to oil based paint, latex paints.

The ban on LPB for residential use is part of a federal standard set by the Consumer Product Safety Commission in 1978. It is a federal standard.


[Edited on 3-3-2004 by HowardRoark]




posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 08:18 AM
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Oh, and BTW, Ashley, I'll be willin to bet that you don't have kids.


There is an old saying. You will eat a pound of dirt before you are ten.

There is a condition known as Pica that many children exhibit, regardless of thier socioeconomic status. These kids impulsively eat dirt, manytimes the dirt around the side of a house (along the dripline of the eaves) is loaded with paint chips.

One think you are right about. The risk for lead poisoning is disproportionately higher in children of lower socioeconomic status. This is caused by a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it is often more imperative for poor families to buy food than to repaint the house.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
I am in Real Estate, The only time you have to replace it, is when it starts cracking. Thats when the Lead is released. Yes it can kill you.

[Edited on 2-3-2004 by SpittinCobra]


My god that is the stupidest statement that I have heard in a long time. If you tell your clients that, you will be lucky if they dont sue you.

You may be in Real Estate, but I design environmental remediation projects for schools for a living (no, Neo, I am not a federal agent as you would like to believe ).

First a little history. The U.S. was one of the last countries to ban the use of LBP for residential use. The reason for that is simple. Lead mining was a big business.

The use of LBP in residential structures was officially banned in 1978, but the truth is, many paint manufacturers had started to phase out the use of LBP a long time before that. One of the principle reasons was the growing use of latex over oil based paints. The other main reason was that the health effects of lead were well known even then.

LBP was an expensive paint back in the day when it was used, so it tended to be used sparingly and for certain applications where it was well suited. Windows, doors, bathrooms, kitchens (areas with high moisture issues) and on metal items.

Contrary to popular belief, The greatest health risk from LBP is not from paint chips it is from the dust. Although paint chips are a clear sign that the paint is starting to fail and delaminate from the substrate. If you have paint chips you will have very high and dangerous lead levels as dust. However, lead dust can be present even when the paint is relatively intact.

The greatest hazard for most children is dust that is generated by friction and wear of the painted surfaces. Window wells and sills collect this dust. Kids love to play in window wells.

Dust levels in window wells where the windows are painted with LBP can be over a thousand ug/ft2

Dust levels as low as 50 ug/ft2 have been linked to elevated blood levels (EBL) in children. EBLs have been definitely linked to learning disabilities in children.

One of the biggest hazards for generating dust is home renovation. Most DIYers and far too many contractors are unaware or are unable to follow proper procedures and as a result wind up contaminating the entire house.

And lastly, yes, excessive lead poisoning can kill you, but the damage to children can happen at levels far below the life-threatening threshold.

If you are concerned about this, a few inexpensive wipe tests can be made to determine the lead levels in your home. The best source for additional information is your local health department.


We had to talk a 8 hour class, call it what you want, If the paint is chipping or is cracked, it has to be replaced. And the the lead is in the dust. I am saying the samething , just simple, why is it stupid?



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 08:25 AM
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Ok mister smarty pants , what you know about mold?



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 08:44 AM
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Laytex paint can be just as bad. They can contain mercury (the older stuff)and propylene glycol, which is antifreeze.

Don't sand your floors if you have lead based paint.

Any house built pryer to 1978 may have LBP



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by energy_wave

Don't sand your floors if you have lead based paint.

Any house built pryer to 1978 may have LBP


True, but in general, you have to go back to houses built in the 50's and earlier, (actually, the 30's) to find the houses that are really loaded with the stuff.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by SpittinCobra
Ok mister smarty pants , what you know about mold?


A little, what I don't know, I can ask one of our resident experts.

What is it that you want to know?



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 08:58 AM
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See it is my understanding, That mold has to be replaced, ebated as soon as found.


We have alot of section 8 tenets, It is part of there goverment inspection. To search for mold and lead paint hazards.



Side note it was GreenTree I took the class through, I thought it was the goverment.

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by SpittinCobra]



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by SpittinCobra


We had to talk a 8 hour class, call it what you want, If the paint is chipping or is cracked, it has to be replaced. And the the lead is in the dust. I am saying the samething , just simple, why is it stupid?

OK OK, I apologize for coming off rudely.


The point is, that you may have paint that is relatively intact, yet you may still have a major lead dust problem. Looking at the condition of the paint is not the way to determin if you have a lead hazard. If you tell someone that they dont have to remove the paint unless it is chipping or cracked, they may think that this means that there is no lead hazard in the home when this may no be true.

The best way is to perform a lead wipe test, preferably several.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 09:11 AM
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You are right, there are other dangers, kids lick walls that is bad. Paint intact or not.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 09:13 AM
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There are several types of mold. I'll have to go into this later as I have little time right now.

Cosmetic mold which can be cleaned with bleach water, mold which causes alergies and toxic mold (very bad).



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 09:15 AM
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SC -

I have been doing this a long time and I have taken many, many of the classes and have several certifications for these types of things.

I have also run into health department employees that had know idea what they were doing. Scary isn't it?

Technically you are right, there are no real federal requirements for the removal of LBP. However, many states and jurisdictions have their own rules in this regard. Usually the situation is this. If you have a child with an EBL in the home, the health department has the authority to force the remediation of the source of the lead. Usually the taxpayer picks up the cost for this, which I generally don't have a problem with.

And kids dont really lick the walls, but they do touch everything and the do put their hands in their mouths constantly.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by energy_wave
There are several types of mold. I'll have to go into this later as I have little time right now.

Cosmetic mold which can be cleaned with bleach water, mold which causes alergies and toxic mold (very bad).



I agree, try telling a judge that. One of our rentals has a full basement, unfinished, Water leaks sometimes, and the harmless mold apears, I know it is harmless, beacuse there is a UV light the bring out to test, Tring to explain this to a judge is talking to a wall. That house was refused for section 8 , because of the harmless mold.

This is after we washed the wall with bleach water and several coats of paint.

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by SpittinCobra]



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by SpittinCobra
See it is my understanding, That mold has to be replaced, ebated as soon as found.


We have alot of section 8 tenets, It is part of there goverment inspection. To search for mold and lead paint hazards.



Side note it was GreenTree I took the class through, I thought it was the goverment.

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by SpittinCobra]


Generally yes, a mold problem should be addressed as soon as possible. There are a couple of main issues with mold. First there are a couple of molds (the so called black stacky mold) that can release spores that can can be particularly nasty, especially when you have people with existing respiratory problems. Asthma is a major issue these days. What is important in this case is that not only do you have to kill the mold, but you have to physically take it and the spores out of the home, because even if they are dead, the spores can still cause problems.

The other issue with mold is that it indicates a serious problem with the living space. Either there is a water leak issue somewhere that needs to be fixed, or there is a serious ventilation moisture control problem. This is what cases the molds to grow in the first place so that you have to fix this problem before you can truly get rid of the molds.

Please note also thatthis is really nothing new. Molds have been around for a long time, it is just that our understanding of their effects have grown in the last few years. I had one building engineer tell me that years ago when they had mold, they would treat it with bleach and repaint with lead based paint, and the problem went away. (one of the properties of LBP is that it is resistant to mold growth. Go figure.
)





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