NASA Forgot How To Go To The Moon!!!

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Let the free energy go.

Well see America has issues with 4 letter F words... and FREE is the worst offender... it is contrary to capitalism ergo must be abolished at all costs...

so for all intent and purpose we are [that other four letter word)

Well so far as I know FOOD is still okay

Originally posted by shearder
OK i was looking at my idea and I am not sure it will work -

HA! Cold feet before we start huh?

reply to post by zorgon


hmmmm....4 letter F words?

face, fade, fake, fame, fare, fate, fave (OK, a stretch) faze.

I've only mentioned a few, with an "A" after the "F"...no need to continue, is there?

reply to post by weedwhacker


You seem to have this pathological need to 'stalk' my posts and contribute nothing to the topic at hand..

I'm done with it... congratulations your back on the iggy list with #1 spot

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by shearder
OK i was looking at my idea and I am not sure it will work -

HA! Cold feet before we start huh?

not at all. I was going over it yesterday after what you said. You know when you look at something and it is fantastic. And then you look away for a while and then look at it again... hmmmmm...

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
What are you talking about man?! They never went to the moon in the first place or the space men would be dead from radiation poisoning by now

Yeah, specifically the Van Allen Radiation Belts discovered by the brilliant astrophysicist James Van Allen who taught at the University of Iowa. My dad had this man as a professor of an astronomy class when he attended school there in the 70's.

reply to post by zorgon


Congrats, zorgon. I have never, ever put anyone on the ignore list. Ever!!

I am not afraid of decent discourse....are you?

Best, WW

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by mungodave
You need a tradesman? I need a challenge.

A challenge? Ever try to cut titanium?

Do ya need a hacksaw?


PMSL

Cheers Zorgon

Mungo

Well I have seen the moon landing back in 1969 when I was a teen ager then. But I look at it this way know, if you don't have the tapes to backup what you did, as far as I'm concerned you have no proof that you did it. Its just like reporting a UFO, everyone wants you to proof it, "how sad is that"!!!
I have seen plenty of UFOs in my live, I'm a firm believer that something is already here, but can't proof.

Hey all, just an idea...None of it is real. I'm not saying they don't launch rockets or go up real high in the sky, but common sense tells me, unless I can verify it for myself that it is not smart to jump off the bridge with the group, let alone the whole generation. I believe, because I can see it with my own eyes, that the moon is in the sky as well as the sun and the stars. Ever seen the Moon in the daytime? Watch it next time, because it follows the suns path exactly, because they are on the same path. Ever been to a fair and ridden "Graviton". When something is spinning what ever is not physically or magnetically attached will fly off, just as you do on the ride. Try to steep onto a running treadmill (but be careful, cause you'll get hurt). Common sense tells me that I walk on flat ground that is NOT in motion. I also know through experience, that when something moves away from me, or vice/versa it becomes smaller in perception and not because it's gone over the horizon. I know also that things with substance have mass which in turn gives it weight (which is what gravity originally meant) and not because a mysterious force is pulling it down. If space is a vacuum then why are we all not sucked off the plane of existence, since that is what a vacuum does, it sucks. (She's gone from suck to blow - Spaceballs) Anyway, I believe for myself that if a big deception is in the works, space is the ultimate , because normal people can't verify it for themselves. I'm pretty sure science is supposed to be about facts, thus eliminating ignorance to the object in conjecture. I'm not saying I know what is past my own perception, so I am not going to sit here and tell you what is up there, because I can't verify it for you, so your GUESS is as good as mine. Our own government has been hyping how everyone could agree if there was just a (in my best Reagen impersonation) "threat from an outside world", so be prepared for the alien invasion. Where do you think all of the trillions of dollars go, which we all work so hard for? Let me paraphrase Hermen Groeing (hitlers high officer) "Naturally the people do not want war, but after all it is the leaders that make policy and the people must go along with it,...just tell them that a threat is coming upon them, denounce anyone that stands against it as a traitor/terrorist and they will do whatever you want, it works the same in any society, wither a democracy, or a dictatorship, a socialist regime or a capitalist one, in Europe, America or anywhere"...9/11 is a prime example (if you believe it was an inside job). It seams easy to fool a nation, but to fool the whole world, takes some serious planning and coordination, like 50 years worth if you catch my drift. I have met tons of people who know everything, who will tell me what IS and even tell me I'm stupid for not agreeing, without knowing from first hand knowledge themselves. "All you need is love", peace

[edit on 6-6-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

Well let my free energy go, I'll take it.
I care about the LA words, Los Alamos.
What army is going down there to unlock the free energy vault.

What scientist will risk his life starting up Tesla's generators.

We know Tesla was killed for 80 trunks of designs and generators.

Not a good track record to butt the Illuminati.

Forget the Moon is right, Earth is in a mess.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I can perhaps bolster your UFO observations with a scientific and plausible
reasons how its done.
Documented science in T T Brown indicates a gravity well cause by Positive
Charges.
Plausible use of Tesla devices to achieve a craft surrounded by positive
ions or charges.

The mention of zero g in a previous post makes me wonder if the
UFO crew are at zero g all the time.

A giant particle only limited by the small matter in the atmosphere
that limit light to c but limits objects differently, mass at high speeds
slows down time so get younger in your UFO flight; or will the invisible
matter perhaps just limit a object to a few thousands mph.

Originally posted by srsen
This is simply a prelude to the announcement that they will scrap the existing space program in 2010 in order to introduce new technology from that point onwards

I am going to quote srsn because I think they are hitting the nail on the head.

BUT O M G ZORGON this is an AMAZING thread......you bringing this info out into the light for us all here is a huge deal. WHAT all is trylu going on at NASA is VERY SUSPECT indeed.....I mean seriously......

LMAO at The SanFord & Son Space Express


my guts hurt from laughing, and this makes my head hurt from the shock.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
I believe, because I can see it with my own eyes, that the moon is in the sky as well as the sun and the stars. Ever seen the Moon in the daytime? Watch it next time, because it follows the suns path exactly, because they are on the same path.

Ah but see? that is merely an optical illusion as the Sun and Moon are not on the same path

"Graviton".

centrifigal force not gravity but I see what you mean

Common sense tells me that I walk on flat ground that is NOT in motion.

Common sense lied to you

When you are sitting still in an armchair just how fast are you REALLY going?

1) The Earth "wobbles" on its polar axis. This motion is not relevant (IMO) to the calculations needed to return to earth from interstellar space as it is an "in situ" motion, but it exists.

2) The Earth revolves [spins] on its axis. For these calculations we will use the equator with a circumference of approx. 25,000 miles. One rotation of Earth is approx. 24 hours. Again this is "in situ" motion so not relevant to space travel, but adds to our "stationary chair" model
25000/24 =1041.7 MPH

3) The Earth is orbiting the Sun once a year. The circumference of the Earth's orbit is approx. 607.6 million miles [or 940 million kilometers]. One year is approx. 365 days
365 days X 24 = 8760 hours
607,600,000/8760 = 69,360.73 MPH

So far we have basically 3 Directions of Motion [Wobble, Spin and Orbit] and a combined speed of 1041.70 + 69,360.73 = 70,402.43 MPH for a person sitting in a chair at the Equator.
[NOTE: This is not factoring in the vectors ]

When you take into account the three-dimensional picture of the Sun's movement through our Milky Way Galaxy, things get very complicated.

4. The sun [and hence the solar system] is moving towards the constellation Hercules, namely to the star Lambda Herculis at 12 miles per second [or 20 kilometers per second] which is 43,200 MPH

5. The Solar system is also moving upwards, at 90 degrees to the plane of the Milky Way, at 4.34 miles per second or 15,624 MPH. But we are actually leaving the Galaxy, out about 50 light years now and will be moving out to 250 light years before it reverses. Details of the mechanics of this are explained in the link below. We also crossed the Galactic plane 2 million years ago.

6. The Solar system is orbiting around the Galaxy at an "estimated" speed of 124 miles per second [or 200 kilometers per second] which is 446,400 MPH. The way that figure has been calculated can be found at the link below.

This is where finding our way home becomes difficult, as we do NOT have an actual true figure for this calculation. The further out we go, taking into account the various motions and speed, the more difficult it becomes to get precise calculations ergo the more room for error. Until we can actually go and measure the distances, a "best guess" is all we have. Over the past few decades these values have been revised several times, and are constantly being added to today.

From an Astronomer's point of view this is not a problem, as they are merely observing from Earth and can fix their calculations when they get new data… no harm done… just reprint the maps.

BUT from a spaceship pilot point of view…touring just within our own galaxy… the problems are enormous.

From a navigator's point of view, we can leave out the "wobble" and the Earth's rotation as those movements are "in place". For later calculations we could also leave out the Earth orbiting the Sun, because if we can make it back to the Sun, I am sure we can locate Earth.

So our "armchair Astronaut" is now moving through 6 different directions and a combined speed of approximately 574,585 MPH

69,361 MPH Spin and Orbit
43,200 MPH Towards Lambda Herculis
15,624 MPH Perpendicular to Galactic Plane
446,400 MPH Orbiting the Galactic Center [or Galactic Spin Rate]
-------------------
574,585 MPH Speed of Earth within Our Galaxy

So for every hour you are away from the solar system, your planet is moving half a million miles, and in several directions…

Now if you want to leave the galaxy add another 1,339,200 MPH to the calculations. This is the speed the galaxy is moving through the universe. But THEN you really get into difficulties pin pointing your reference point. Details can be found here…

So you see… the propulsion unit is the least of your worries….
You better have a REALLY GOOD NAVIGATOR.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

We are pushing the tiny matter in between atoms around, if there is
such a thing.

Get out of the way, Earth coming round the Sun.

Space not being space any more but matter.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
I believe, because I can see it with my own eyes, that the moon is in the sky as well as the sun and the stars. Ever seen the Moon in the daytime? Watch it next time, because it follows the suns path exactly, because they are on the same path.

Ah but see? that is merely an optical illusion as the Sun and Moon are not on the same path

Yes, I do see. They follow the same path. How is it an optical illusion? Also, why is it that when the moon is in the sky during the daytime, say at 10 o'clock position and the sun is say at the 2 o'clock position that the moon is not always full, since the earth is not in the way of the moon? If i drew an imaginary triangle from my position to the Moon and Sun at those positions, should not the moon be reflecting 100% of the light back to my eye. I have video of this somewhere I will post as soon as I find it.

"Gravitron".

centrifigal force not gravity but I see what you mean

[/qoute]

Doesn't anything that spins/revolves exert centrifugal force? I was using gravitron as an example of what science can show you, not as an explanation for gravity. As I said, gravity used to mean "weight", at least to Issac Newton .

Common sense tells me that I walk on flat ground that is NOT in motion.

Common sense lied to you

Really? But, I'm standing still. Hold let me check again, nope still not moving. Ok, just to give you the benefit of the doubt, once more, I'll pay really close attention this time..............Nope Haven't moved but to type. Were you using light to make those calculations, because you know it's not constant right?

You see I've learned all the same things as you (grade school wise), just as you have, WITHOUT first hand knowledge. Don't think that I don't appreciate your hard work, because I do. I never said these things are not, I said I don't know for myself. All the adding in the world doesn't provide me with the real thing...experience. Peace to you
So let me ask you a question? Have you been to "SPACE"?

[edit on 6-6-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

reply to post by zorgon


Good post
Speed becomes very important also when relativity is involved.. But how can we have any idea of relativity other than (if you'll forgive the phrase) a "relative" scientific understanding. All speed is relative between 2 points. But is it ever really that simple in nature? The obvious short answer is no.. Your example being one valid reason this argument is solid..

Although the speed of light may remain constant, the speed of someone traveling through the universe would not be so easy to gauge. All these factors add up to a pretty remarkably high number. What if a photons are simply "still" while we see them as moving so fast (the speed of light) because of our combined relative speed through the universe?

For all we know time is even made possible from the very beginning by relativity itself. We all experience the same time because we are all living on the same planet traveling the same distance around the sun traveling the same speed as it rotates on it's axis etc..etc..etc...
Therefore, noone experiences any noticeable time dilation because they simply aren't traveling fast enough.

But what is interesting here is the simple dilemma of relative speed. If you are standing still, are you actually traveling faster through the universe? Most people would assume the answer is no. But they aren't considering the unknowns. For all we know it is like a bicycler traveling along-side someone sitting in the bed of a moving pickup truck. Even though the bicycler is traveling very fast compared to the person standing still, the person standing still will always be faster than the bicycler because trucks are faster than bicycles!!!

The same could be for the speed of light.... Perhaps the 186,000 mile-per-second speed of light is simply our precise relative speed through the cosmos while light actually doesn't move at all! Something to think about anyway..

-ChriS






[edit on 7-6-2008 by BlasteR]

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand Have you been to "SPACE"?

Not yet, but I have friends who have and am working on a ticket

But you don't need to go to space... just get on a train same effect

Originally posted by BlasteRthe speed of someone traveling through the universe would not be so easy to gauge.

Well the problem is the vector calculations, because all the numbers I gave you add up to one speed in one direction... like a plane flying East at 100 miles per hour with a 100 mile per hour cross wind from the North has to fly North East in order to go East

Kinda like this



The problem that is 'relative' to getting back home is knowing where you left your planet... because if you stepped off Earth and came to a full stop, Earth would just vanish in a flash...



[edit on 7-6-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


Hey Zorgon, thanks for answering my question about going to space, but I had a few other ones in there I was hoping you could help me with.

1st. I asked how is it an optical illusion that the sun and moon are on the same path?

2nd. If the moon is in the sky at 10 o'clock position following the sun at the 2 o'clock position, it appears to me that the moon should be fully lit and not cresting, seeing as how there is some great distance to the moon? I know the cresting happens because of what it's relative position is to us and the sun, but when they are both in our view would the moon not appear full?

3rd. How good of friends are you with what astronauts? If you can give that info?

Thanks lettthereaderunderstand

reply to post by zorgon


I know I've been 'ignored', but may I just one teeny time say something that I do have knowledge about? The analogy of the airplane fliying East with a 90 degree direct crosswind: If the intent of the airplane is to follow a 'track' over the surface of the Earth that is due East, then it will hold a headinng that is somewhere Northeasterly. This is called 'crabbing' into the wind, in order to fly a specific course.

In the case of an airplane landing in a crosswind, the airplane is aligned longitudinally with the runway to lessen side loads on the landing gear. This is called a 'slip'. It is performed by slightly 'cross controlling' the ailerons and rudder....the effect is to 'side slip' slightly into the prevailing crosswind. There is a limit, however....hence, airplane manufacturers publish the "Crosswind Limit", in knots, in the Operating Handbooks.

Just to be clear, if you watch that KAL B747, you will see that there is a very strong crosswind from the right. The technique that pilot used was something some call 'kicking out the crab' at the last minute. Not a very pretty way to fly, and shows no finesse on that pilot's part. The Alitalia MD-11 was even worse....the goal is to be on the centerline of the runway, he came very close to getting into the dirt on the side (and taking out runway lights in the process, or at worst, causing a landing gear to collapse). Some pilots of large jets fear the side-slip, since there is the risk of dragging one of the underwing engines.....but, when you know your airplane, you know how much bank angle is safe, at touchdown. It usually amounts to about 5 degrees, or less. Well within design limits.

Now, I guess I should really have replied to the other poster, since that's who Z was chatting to....but I didn't want to have to re-type it!! But, in a nutshell, as Z noted, the Moon does not follow the Sun around Earth's sky. There are many, many good books and sources on astronomy, you'll likely enjoy checking some of those out. Learning is fun!!!









[edit on 6/7/0808 by weedwhacker]