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one person's realality in the science vs. relgion struggle

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posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 05:50 PM
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Hey everyone.

I been posting off & on here at ATS for the past 2 years now. I originally came here interested in the 9/11 stuff but always found myself reading through the religious/ ancient civilizations/ nwo threads. Religion never sat right with me, ever since I was pretty young. My parents made me & my brother go to Sunday school and the both of us back then knew something wasn't right about. Growing up in Philly in an Irish Catholic family religion was shoved down your throat daily. Anyway, Im 31 now and my beliefs, correction....my thinking has remained the same in most repsects. I know theres a bigger story to human history than what we were brought up to believe. I have my own thoughs and some beliefs on the how, the why, and whens. I know theres some really intelligent people here at ATS that I learned alot from and Ill let it be known now, that I'm a scholar of NOTHING. The only thing i know for sure is that nothing is for sure and Im merely someone who thinks way more than I actually talk, I have more questions than answers.

The point of my post is about the growing tension between science and religion, the cost of thinking on your own, and the possible violence as a result of this tension. The reason Im bringing up violence is a big factor here and is only my personal view and more frequent occurance in my life. I been finding myself with more & more hostility towards the "believers" for what I think is them pushing thier own branded morality on me. I was actually threatened with my life by a couple a few weeks ago in a diner over a conversation I was having with a friend of mine. We were talking about how religion is social control, the bible is plagiarized and distorted, etc. Anyway, the couple sitting across from us were listening to us came out and said "Excuse me but this is not the place for that kind of nonsense, so we would appreciate it you would take it somewhere else". My response was "Absolutely not, we're paying customers in a public place and this conversation doesnt involve you and if you dont like it you can leave". Ill be honest here, I was kind of a dick when I replied to them, a sociopathic side of me that I never knew I had has been coming out more noticeably lately because of this stuff. We continued the conversation anyway while we ate and could here them across from us mumbling lol. Well, after we finished eating and went outside, the couple was out in the parking lot getting ready to get in thier car and the guy calls over at me saying I have alot of nerve trying to spread filth and had no right to say things like I did in public places. I just blew him off with a smug grin like "oh well deal with it", his tone turned hostile fast saying im gonna burn in hell and he himself would find out where I live and deliver me to the devil himself. As soon as he said that I turned right around, took a few steeps towards him and his wife like "Alright lets see you try and do it then" (there was alot more cursing in that of course). This is Philly, you dont make threats like that and not expect attention, when this guy said that, a couple a neighborhood thugs hanging out heard it and laughed and they started walking towards the couple too, they got in their car and left fast. Im having more and more encounters lately because of my thinking, and the thing is, I dont push it on anyone. Another small example is the other day, a neighbor asked what I planned on doing with my car, my car broke down a month ago, instead of stressing about getting it fixed right away I decided to take the bus for a while and who knows save gas money. So, he asked about donating it to some organization, i dont remember the name but they help families out that really need it. I said Id seriously consider it and told him up front I have no problem with just giving it away but as long as it isnt a religious backed organization and that turned into a whole other argument, a whole lot of "ill pray for you" and "you have to believe". Im so sick of hearing these people telling my thinking is wrong and need to conform.

Im at the point where I cant tell if Im being irrational or if its the bible pushers. The final nail in the coffin for me and religion was 2 years ago, my younger brother was murdered and police still havent caught who did it. At the viewing, I for the first time ever In my life had the urge to go up to a priest and absolutely knock his teeth out. All my life up until that moment I always had some kind of respect for pastors/priests even though i dont believe in what they preach. This slime of a person was using my brother's death a chance to push christianity and the bible on us and even pointed at his casket and said if we dont devout ourselves we would end up like my brother, I literally clinched my fists and said to myself I cant believe this mother#er just went there. I still think about what that asshole said and what others like him have said before too.

if you read this far Im sure you can tell Im a just a little bit mre on the science side of things lol. I started this thread trying to make point but ended up just venting, sorry. Its weird I used to worry about our government but now its the religious rite and their infiltration of free thinking people who ask questions.




posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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In grade school in the 60's. We attended Mass every day. I cannot impart the feeling of being touched by an angel after singing Ave Maria during ritual. It is not something easily explained, quantified, or liquified. Science of course demands explanation at every step.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 06:35 PM
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I see this post got deep sixed quick fast and in a hurry. Too bad. I would have wished to see more views on the matter.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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Why has this thread been killed? I would very much like to read more of this. Of purists and those with blessings to tell.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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Science is cool, and we all use it everyday. I have often wondered why the religious never embraced science, until I realized that they would have to chose between what is taught by science and what is preached by religion. One side has a ideology and dogma to instill faith, the other has logic and common sense and requires proof of all things.

So who are you gonna believe? fact based in observation and test, or the preacher in the pulpit that has a doctrine to protect?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:40 AM
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Dragon. Totally expected. Dogma. Preachers with agendas. I cannot in any podium refute your literal claims. What I can say is you have not lived until being truly touched. Set up for shoot up. Flame away.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:52 AM
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i dont see why there has to be any conflict. Its just addiction to dogma that makes people have conflict with science. There are plenty religions and spiritualities out there that have absolutely no conflict with science. Of course, most spiritualites are smart enough to realize the metaphor behind their lessons and legends and they understand the TRUE spirit of the messages in their practice. Its really only hard line monotheistic fundamentalists who have problems with science, and they are usually so stuck on the letter of their religion that they have lost the spirit of the message totally. Hence all the killing in the name of jesus, the prince of peace. sigh...what can ya do?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:55 AM
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indeed, i think t he most intense spiritual experience ive seen to date (and i've tried many different practices) are the sweat lodges and peyote ceremonies of the native american tribes. In my experience i have yet to experience anything that brings you as deeply into communion with the divine as these....and they have no problem understanding and accepting science. Budhist meditation is a close second for me, and the standard "sittin in church repeating mantras and picturing jesus 12 stations of the cross" lags far far behind.



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