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HARRP - Does it deserve the attention it gets?

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posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 10:27 AM
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HAARP - High frequency active auroral research.

Why do so many people here on ATS believe That this seemingly innocuous research project is really a deeply nefarious device which can be used for scores of destructive or coercive purposes?

According to official sources behind the project, It is nothing
more than a research project concerned with communications
through the ionosphere. (Yes I am aware of the possibility of this site being a front)

see official site:

www.haarp.alaska.edu...

overhead view of array:

www.haarp.alaska.edu...

Now I can see the reasoning behind the assumption that HAARP is some kind of weapon or mind control device but when delving a little further and becoming more familiar with the science pertaining to this facility, I see no real reason for the wild speculation sorrounding this now enegmatic device.

I'm not saying that I buy the official explaination for its existence, but I'm certainly not convinced that this thing can cause Earthquakes or Hurricanes as has been claimed by some here on ATS.

So if you think HAARP is anything but research into communications through and within the ionosphere then please show me the evidence because I see no proof that HAARP is anything but what is says it is.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying I'm not open to the possibility that more is going on in Alaska than is immediately obvious, only that I'm not convinced by speculation and conjecture. I'll believe it when its proven to me.




posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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just one comment : we already have communications that can reach anywhere on the earth and i personally dont see why we would need a 180 antenna array and 3 million watts to do what we can do with a whole lot less equipment and wattage . it just doesn't make any sense . maybe i'm wrong in my assumption and if so i know that i will be picked apart be someone more knowledgeable.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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Incredible.............Im sure you believe that contrails are just chemtrails spelled with an on intstead of hem.And that their the same.
www.mondovista.com...


Read the WHOLE story...Either this guy has a bit of truth behind his statements..Or he is one of the BEST Science Fiction writers I have EVER read.
He even shows PICS of the second facility 300 miles NORTH of the official HAARP web-sites Location.

I believe this instumentation apparatus has more capabity then just
"Monitoring" the strastaphere.

Why 2 Locations?
Why is'nt the SECOND location listed on their "Home" web-site?
Why dont Ya Google HAARP and look at OTHER independen "Free Thinking"
SCIENTISTS who DONT agree with YOU or the "Official WebSite?"

Do You Work there and are trolling ATS for fun?

Would'nt be the first time we've had "Insiders" stir the pot for fun.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by ironman433
just one comment : we already have communications that can reach anywhere on the earth


I can see your point but what about communication with satallites or spacecraft which are even further afield? Also 3 million watts is small when compared to the high energy particles involved with auroras, which the device is said to research.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Chonx
 

satellites and spacecraft communications have already been figured out too . how do you think we can tell the space probes and rovers and such what to do millions of miles away ? when we went to the moon in the 60's we were talking to the landers and spacecraft on those missions and that was almost 39 yrs ago.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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If a person doesn't understand something, then it must be evil or have evil intent.

Of all the theories that are attributed to HAARP, there is only one that is hardly mentioned.

When you pull it up to full power and do an ionosphere bounce, The frequency can be altered to cook the ionosphere a little bit to create a bulge from expansion. What does this do, this is were it gets interesting.

Low flying military satellites can have there orbits altered or even have enough drag put on them to have them fall out of orbit.

Forget the killing, earthquake inducing, mind control, underground exploration; frequency or any number of other descriptors which end in frequency you want to place on HAARP. There are much better ways to accomplish all listed theories associated with HAARP without using HAARP technology.

Explore Maximum Usable Frequencies (MUFs) a little bit. Think in terms of putting the frequency just beyond the MUF for communication by atmospheric bounce. This is where the ionosphere would absorb the broadcast wave instead of bouncing it. It is kind of like a microwave oven, but not nearly the frequency microwaves are.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by hinky
 

take a look at the size of the antennas there and then look at the size of your 2.4ghz antenna on your wifi . 2.4ghz is not even close to the muf and the antenna is only a few of inches long . the higher in frequency the smaller the antenna , the lower the frequency the larger the antenna . so that makes no sense to me considering there is 180 antennas there . at lets say 2meters wave length between 145 and 150 mhz i could fit 180 stacked cophaze antennas in my livingroom . now if you look in the pictures of the antennae it sure takes up alot of area , way more than what would be used for the muf .
i ask you to please let us know what the muf that you are speaking of in mhz and we can estimate how large the antenna array would have to be . also the ionosphere "comunication wise " is always changing how the skip or bounce is acting on a day to day basis which would mean that they would have to have multiple wave length arrays , 180 of each and i dont see that in any of the pictures .



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by ironman433
reply to post by Chonx
 

satellites and spacecraft communications have already been figured out too . how do you think we can tell the space probes and rovers and such what to do millions of miles away ? when we went to the moon in the 60's we were talking to the landers and spacecraft on those missions and that was almost 39 yrs ago.


I also don't really see how the ionosphere could be used to aid communication to something that is outside of the ionosphere. It's not like you could bounce the signal off it: the signal is being passed through it. The signal's only as strong as it is when it is broadcast, so how could passing through the ionosphere boost the signal.

As stated, worldwide communications were sorted a long time ago and I can't see how it could be used to aid communications beyond Earth, so just what is it there for exactly? For so much money having been spent on it, what exactly are we getting out of it?

It's all well and good to say 'The official release says it's for communication so why wouldn't it be?' But it's also reasonable to say 'Where's the return for the huge financial input?'



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by Chonx
According to official sources behind the project, It is nothing
more than a research project concerned with communications
through the ionosphere. (Yes I am aware of the possibility of this site being a front)


I think the key phrase here is "According to official sources behind the project",

after everything we know about the evils of "The Officials Sources",
do you truly trust them anymore?

edit spelling

[edit on 1-6-2008 by Maya432]



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by ironman433
 


Astute observation about antenna size and wave length. This is where you want to do some work. HAARP only broadcasts in the 2.5 to 11 MHz range, within the shortwave bands. That's it for the whole project. Not the ultra-high frequency microwave band you mentioned for your example.

Many of the testings ran are done within the 40 and 80 meter ham bands. Once again, it's an atmospheric bounce thing. The last test ran had moon bounce with a skywave echo from bounce. I made a report for both nights. Moon bounce and echo was heard first night. Moon bounce only, the second night.

One also has to look at the wattage the antenna is loaded with. You're again comparing apples and oranges. Micro-watts compared to around 3.5 MkW for HAARP. Too much power applied to an antenna will result in a burned out antenna from over heating.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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well you got me there because i dont know much about hf mostly 2meter and up. i'm very familiar with 10 and 11 meter and skip conditions due to the solar flares and sun spots. i also know a small amount about moon bounce.
seeing how were coming into our 11yr high with the sun spots does that condition have any adverse effects on their transmissions in the daytime ? and also why are they transmitting so close to the magnetic pole when the suns ejections enter into our atmosphere there " ie the aurora Borealis " wouldn't that also interfere with reception of any broadcasts they are trying to hear and also their transmissions ?



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