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Switzerland: Model of political wisdom for the whole world

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posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by Swordbeast
 


Giving women the vote is a mistake. Countries that have done that are going down hill. Countries that have not -- regardless of whether we agree with them or not -- are vigorous. As for food, I once read only countries that have lost a war have good food. Perhaps that is why the French are so good at it and the British so lousy.




posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by Straight Razor
Giving women the vote is a mistake. Countries that have done that are going down hill. Countries that have not -- regardless of whether we agree with them or not -- are vigorous.


I doubt if it is so much about women getting the vote, it probably has more to do with a society taking on more feminine views. There are plenty of pro-diversity ultra left wing men in society too.

Though in very paternalistic socieites it would seem that territory and assets would be better protected, and the belief that people/problems can be "nurtured and fixed" a bit less prevalent.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by Straight Razor

Giving women the vote is a mistake. Countries that have done that are going down hill. Countries that have not -- regardless of whether we agree with them or not -- are vigorous. As for food, I once read only countries that have lost a war have good food. Perhaps that is why the French are so good at it and the British so lousy.



First of all I dont think Switzerland is going downhill and second of all I dont think that giving women the vote makes a country go downhill.

Where´d you ever get that idea?

In any case, women do have the vote in Switzerland, so its not a relevant point anyway.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


I´d also like to object that giving women the vote and diversity are traits especially native to a left-winger.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 09:39 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
I´d also like to object that giving women the vote and diversity are traits especially native to a left-winger.



True, there are many prominant right wingers that are pro-diversity. Difference is they push the agenda for power and money, not because they want to nurture/save everyone.


Edit my comment was directed to the right wing in the U.S., the right wing in Switzerland is quite different.


[edit on 2-6-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 09:48 AM
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It's a very environmentally conscious country. The people will stare at you until you want to slap them, but they enjoy eccentricities (Freddy Mercury). I lived there...I'm Mexican, I look Spanish and they appreciate differences, but they can't help but seem rude in their appreciation.

They rarely wear bright colors like Yellow, they like white and red...big surprise.
They are a political model for today's world, and I loved it there for how much sense they make.

BTW, never send anything illegal through the mail to Switzerland, I learned the hard way...stoopid me.




posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by SugarCube
Having spent some time working in Europe, Switzerland has managed to maintain a social accord by restricting immigration. This is going to sound like a right-wing scaremongering but the facts stand for themselves.

Germany "had" a very good social model from the 1950's onward, however, mass immigration has led to a breakdown in social values. Whether you want to believe it or not, it is fact that the majority of anti-social behaviour is caused by the immigrant population, especially from Eastern European countries - some of the people have a "chip on their shoulders" from "previous events".

There is also a large amount of discord in the whole community - still - concerning the way the fall of the Berlin Wall was handled. East Germans were winners of course, but at too much expense of the West Germans.

There are, of course, social problems indigenous to all societies, however, the social problems of rising street crime, drunkenness and public violence is generally perpetrated by immigrants - I have seen this first hand so know it to be valid.

This is not to say immigration is a bad thing, but the way it is handled and controlled must be looked at to ensure that it can be implemented without causing social chaos and disharmony to the extent that we see in the UK.

Germany had a great social harmony and this has benefited from the immigration of Greeks, Turks, Russians, you name it, however, it is now reaching levels whereby the society cannot handle the influx.


1 * for you my friend.

Ditto the above comments, Germans lament the fact of the West/East mixing and would of prefered English, French etc than former soviet bloc peoples. But thats in the past now what they've got is what they've got.
Switzerland is a wise country. I lived there for only a week and saw the differences. It's that safe there that their military bases have electronic gates that let the soldiers in and out with no need for sentries!
Gun law is in the hands of the people and to date there has been no massacres because anyone wanting to do this is likely to be killed themselves by other citizens.
I said to my father once, years ago, why, if it was such a good place did we not move their. His answer summed up the British / European gulf.
"You have to be Swiss or at least learn the Swiss language and work your way up the ladder from the bottom, if you get in through the door!"



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by SugarCube
 


Hello, I'm from Switzerland, and I agree with the first post of this thread : our political system is awesome (althought clearly not perfect.)

For the part about immigration : about 20% of the population are foreigners. They aren't citizen, althought, but they can become one after 10 years, if they are switz enought.

Juste about this weekend, we had to vote about a law asking for strongest criteria for naturalization. The law wasn't accepted.

(Sorry for my english, we have a lot of national language, but not this one.)



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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If I recall correctly, because SW doesn't have a professional military, every head of household male is issued a machine gun and can be called on for defense of the nation.


Well, it's about correct.

When you reach majority, you have to serve in the army. There are possibilities not to do it, but basically, you have to serve for the country, as a civilian or as a military. The great injustice is that women doesn't have to do anything. They can serve in the army if they want to, although.

So, at about 20, you are recruted. They check your mental and physical health, and assign you to some weapon. Then you go to military school, for 18 to 21 weeks.

When it's over, you have to keep your assault rifle at home, with ammunitions (which are to be kept separately from the gun.) Then, every year, there is rehearsal. You keep training 3 weeks a year, and although do some shooting.

So yes, every healthy young man who didn't cheat his way out of the army (there is some kind of tolerance. Say your gay, you smoke pot or that you think often about people dying by your hand, and they let you go without doing all this #) get an assault rifle, for free.

There have been several case of people going postal and SHOOTING EVERY BODY with their military gun, and it is a common debate to offer the possibility to let your gun in a military building somewhere or to keep the gun without ammunition (after all, except the EU - which isn't exactly a threat - there is no potential enemy anywhere near. In any case, we'll have time to find ammunition or to grad our gun at the closest military base (they are literally everywhere.)



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Kromsson
There have been several case of people going postal and SHOOTING EVERY BODY with their military gun, and it is a common debate to offer the possibility to let your gun in a military building somewhere or to keep the gun without ammunition (after all, except the EU - which isn't exactly a threat - there is no potential enemy anywhere near. In any case, we'll have time to find ammunition or to grad our gun at the closest military base (they are literally everywhere.)


The stats I read said Switzerland has the HIGHEST gun ownership per capita, and the LOWEST crime rate.

About half of the violent crimes are committed by "criminal tourists", a term they use for non-resident foreigners.

www.theblessingsofliberty.com...



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Hello,

I did some of my studies in Lausanne, Switzerland...spent 4 years there... the country is not what you think it is....should read some of the books by Swiss former Parliament Member Jean Ziegler....especially "La Suisse Lave plus Blanc" and "Le Bonheure d´être Suisse"...for those who do not read French, I am sure you can find them in English as well... The perception that the Swiss State is a model of freedom should be compared to the perception that the USA is a "free" country...



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by felipecb
 


Then name countries in which things are going better



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


You say they can become swiss if they are swiss enough. What are the criteria?

And: Your Englilsh is fine. Im always impressed how the swiss habitually speak 2,3 or even 4 languages.

[edit on 2-6-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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Hey guys, just seeing if anybody has seen the latest Swiss Government campaign for re-election? It contains pictures of a white ship kicking a black sheep of the Swiss flag! A lot of people in Geneva and other parts highly regard Blocher and his party to be the new Nazis. They refuse to have mosques built as they are a Christian country, and now they are making it very hard for foreigners to stay, they are very protectionist not to mention that the national bank UBS was actually founded by Hitler and started with all the Jewish wealth that was stolen.

Having just come back from living 5 years over there, i can confirm that the people may be nice but the politics there is very scary.

Cant diss the chocolate, coffee or food though! (apart from fondue, cant stand that stuff)!!



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Swordbeast

...Those 300 deaths per year include suicides, of which we have a surprisingly high rate here ...

Some 300 deaths per year are due to legally held army ordinance weapons, the large majority of these being suicides. The majority of gun crimes involving domestic violence are perpetrated with army ordinance weapons, while the majority of gun crime outside the domestic sphere involves illegally held firearms.

...a comparatively big percentage is actually done with guns. A big percentage of homicides is committed in a domestic environment and quite often is part of "extended suicide", so to say. We had some cases where the parents killed their kids and then themselves out of financial despair (and the media was all over them because the killings happened with an old army rifle, whereas a similar situation that involved a hammer received only a little footnote, btw.)

So in conclusion, Switzerland is not less safe for individuals than any other western country with stricter gun laws.


Hey, thanks for the detail. You really know your stuff.

I personally support the principle of an armed citizenry, despite the risks and drawbacks. Most ATS members also seem to be of this mind (not just the Yanks).

Handing all weaponry over to (on the one hand) an over-powerful government and its agencies, and (on the other) psychopathic criminals, as is current policy in the UK - though not only in the UK, in lots of other 'liberal', 'enlightened' places too - is IMHO an error of monumental folly with visibly disastrous consequences.

Given the choice I would choose a bullet to the head rather than a hammer (in your example) any day.




posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by bovarcher
 


Thanks for adding some possible dark sides.

Im aware not everything is bright and shiny. Though comparison on most levels does prove Switzerland to be ahead of most other nations.

The OVERALL crime rate is lower than that of the UK.



I like Switzeerland a lot. I've visited more times than I can remember, and driven through it N/S E/W many times. It is a unique and eccentric place. Living there though, I think I would miss the sea.

Interesting to speculate if the country might have been different if invaded by the Nazis between 1939-45. Hitler in the end didn't invade CH because he had no excuse and had bigger fish to fry, though there were hostilities all right:

sonic.net...

Had things gone a different way, CH might have ended up with US troops stationed there in large numbers. Maybe if this had happened, it might be a different place today (and probably not a better one).




posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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I believe that it does not matter what system you have if your voting on propaganda and lies..........
Now I`m not saying the political system is not important but, without having the truth, a vote is an illusion.

Personally, I believe no company should own more than one outlet.

I would like to ask a question about the media in Switzerland.........
How free is it?........and how informed are the people?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Dillons
I would like to ask a question about the media in Switzerland.........
How free is it?........and how informed are the people?


To me it doesnt seem different from any other western media...

...but I´d also like to hear a swiss person speak on this.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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Thats funny you just made a thread about this place, I just read Behold A Pale Horse, by William Cooper. He addreses that this place is where the Bilderberg group makes all the worlds secret arrangements. Interesting enough it would make sense to make it a paradise, you wouldn't want to crap in your own backyard.






"'The Illuminati are extremely powerful, very wealthy men. They believe
that they are the guardians of the secrets of the ages. They believe
that the vast majority of people would not know what to do with the
real knowledge and the real truth and the real science -- and would, in
fact, misuse them all. They further believe that everything that they
do is for the ultimate betterment and survival of humankind -- even if
it means killing two billion people to reach their goal...'"

-William Cooper



www.thewatcherfiles.com...






[edit on 2-6-2008 by menguard]



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