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Switzerland: Model of political wisdom for the whole world

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posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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A model for the world? They recently gave women the vote, have lousy cuisine, and are best known for cuckoo clocks and guards who wear dresses. That's hardly role model material IMO.

[edit on 2-6-2008 by Straight Razor]




posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 12:27 AM
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seems to me that running a small country with only 7.5 million people is a little easier to maintain/govern.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by khunmoon
Yes, they seem to be a proud freedom loving people...without the greed of expansion (I don't think they ever had a colony)


One reason CH never had any colonies is because the country is landlocked, and so never had a navy nor a way out to the sea for their army except through other European countries (similar to other central European places like CZ & Hungary).

In this democratic paradise, women were only allowed to vote and stand for parliament in 1971 (yes that's right: not 1871, 1971!) and in a few cantons did not get the vote until the late 1980s. See:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Another surprising thing is that it used to be COMPULSORY for every Swiss male to own a firearm and live ammunition. This has been liberalized in recent years, but there is estimated to be still almost a million assault rifles kept with live amunition in private family homes, explained in detail here:

en.wikipedia.org...

and 'only' about 300 murders/annum with firearms, in a population of 7.5 million (a national murder rate in total more than double that of the UK).

Interesting society model.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 03:28 AM
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The only good thing about Switzerland is their cheese. I suppose it also looks good if you're some foreign corporate criminal and you need a bank to secure your hard earnings.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


Ive always speculated if the standard of living of a country is connected to climate / temperature.

It would seem so.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by bovarcher
en.wikipedia.org...

and 'only' about 300 murders/annum with firearms, in a population of 7.5 million (a national murder rate in total more than double that of the UK).

Interesting society model.


Those 300 deaths per year include suicides, of which we have a surprisingly high rate here (so much for pride, lots of those suicides involve financial problems). I don't think, that people here in Switzerland are more endangered of falling victim to gun crime than anywhere else in the world. This is detailed here:


Gun crime

Further information: Gun violence and Crime in Switzerland

Police statistics for the year 2006[11] records 34 killings or attempted killings involving firearms, compared to 69 cases involving bladed weapons and 16 cases of unarmed assault. Cases of assault resulting in bodily harm numbered 89 (firearms) and 526 (bladed weapons). This represents a decline of aggravated assaults involving firearms since the early 1990s. Some 300 deaths per year are due to legally held army ordinance weapons, the large majority of these being suicides. The majority of gun crimes involving domestic violence are perpetrated with army ordinance weapons, while the majority of gun crime outside the domestic sphere involves illegally held firearms.


Also, compare different crime rates per 100'000 people here. You'll be surprised to see that our OVERALL HOMICIDE RATES PER 100'000 (Switzerland: 1.52) is about on par with Germany (1.6350), England&Wales (1.57), Australia (1.57) and Canada (1.58).
However, of the comparatively "few" homicides that are committed, a comparatively big percentage is actually done with guns. A big percentage of homicides is committed in a domestic environment and quite often is part of "extended suicide", so to say. We had some cases where the parents killed their kids and then themselves out of financial despair (and the media was all over them because the killings happened with an old army rifle, whereas a similar situation that involved a hammer received only a little footnote, btw.)

So in conclusion, Switzerland is not less safe for individuals than any other western country with stricter gun laws.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:19 AM
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Switzerland is a beautiful, safe and free country. I am Swiss, though after living in America for over 25 years ( I was deported in 2004 ) I didn't feel very Swiss when I first arrived. It was a very difficult time for me being as Americanized as I was.

When I first arrived I spoke barely any German, was unemployed and pretty pissed off. I didn't know what to do but the Swiss goverment quickly looked after me, making sure I'd get some language classes, health care and yes, even welfare untill I got on my feet. It took almost a year but eventually I got a job and on my feet. Never once was I treated badly or disrespectfull because I was on Sozialamt ( welfare).

Every country has some skeletons in their closet. My mother was one of Die Kinder der Landstrasse i'd verture to say though that the Swiss are much more humble about their past "crimes".

The Swiss take care of their own, there is no doubt about that.

I think Switzerland is the best country in the world.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:20 AM
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reply to post by bovarcher
 


Thanks for adding some possible dark sides.

Im aware not everything is bright and shiny. Though comparison on most levels does prove Switzerland to be ahead of most other nations.

The OVERALL crime rate is lower than that of the UK.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:20 AM
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reply to post by Swordbeast
 



So in conclusion, Switzerland is not less safe for individuals than any other western country with stricter gun laws.


I can only disagree from personal experiences. I've walked late at night in big cities and small towns and NEVER once felt unsafe or in danger.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by laiguana
The only good thing about Switzerland is their cheese. I suppose it also looks good if you're some foreign corporate criminal and you need a bank to secure your hard earnings.


Ever tried our chocolate? You'd be surprised


And the Bank / criminal money issue is currently being addressed, there are laws in the making that should put a damper on the illegal money flow here.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by Merigold
 


I think we are AGREEING, not disagreeing, aren't we?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by Merigold
 


Thats certainly my impression too.

Ive never felt safer walking at night.

I also love how a 30 minute drive will take you into a completely different langauge zone...thats awesome.

OK, I dont care too much about cuckoo-clocks, as another poster mentioned, but the place is so much more than watches and clocks.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:28 AM
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reply to post by Swordbeast
 


Actually I have! I've never been to the country, but they have a nice selection of swiss chocolate in other parts of Europe. Belgium chocolate is also very good. Good to hear they're working on their banking system.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by Straight Razor
A model for the world? They recently gave women the vote, have lousy cuisine, and are best know for cuckoo clocks and guards who wear dresses. That's hardly role model material IMO.


Yeah, we only gave women the vote rather recently.
Plus, there is still a disparity in wages in some places where males earn more than females for the same kind of work but this is being changed, although its a slow process due to the more archaic views of some of the employers/bosses.

Please do point out what of our cuisine could possibly be lousy, because I don't think it is, and I think 6.5 million Swiss would agree with me on this



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I am an American living in Switzerland and I agree with you... the ONLY complaints that I might have is that:

1. In some cities there are a lot of drug addicts, junkies

2. There is some racism from older generations that is accepted by society at large. For instance, An apartment is for rent and the advertisement will read

CH only


meaning that only swiss people may apply for this apartment. This is discriminatory against mostly people from eastern bloc countries.


But, I really do agree that Switzerland is as close to a Utopian society as I have seen. In the way that the standard of living is so high and crime is so low. Corruption is not at all apparent, and there are no wars. The medical establishment and infrastructure are top notch.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:04 AM
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So to those who agree that Switzerland is somewhat preferrable to many other nations...

...what is in the mentality / upbringing of swiss people that might cause this?

Also asking the swiss people here.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


Isn't that against the law? I mean most Western countries have anti-discreminations laws today, uhh..?

Don't they have that it Switzerland too?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Switzerland was starting look really racist according to some of the posts here.

Big difference between racism and nationalism though, surely. I've only seen evidence in this thread that the Swiss might be a little more nationalist and unafraid to enforce immigration laws than most other nations.

Very interesting thread. I've only been to Switzerland once - Luzern. I found it a beautiful, clean, quiet, peaceful place. No litter, no bad attitudes. I'm glad such a beautiful place is in the hands of relatively smart people.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Well, even though I AM Swiss and was born in Zurich, it is difficult for me to answer because I've spent most of my life in America, living as an American. A few observations though.

The Swiss take their parenting responsibilities seriously. Children are well behaved. They are encouraged to be children for as long as possible. One of the most surprising things for me to see was kids playing outside, sometimes till 10 nor 11 at night!

The Swiss expect immigrants to integrate. Immirgants who don't will find a hard time of it. They are already multicultural, French, Italian, German and Romansch. I am very liberal and pro immigrant, but I can see clearly in the UK for examle that multiculturalism isn't working. The Swiss are as multicultural as they want to be.

The Swiss work hard and work very efficently. My first job, I had a very hard time, not because I am/was lazy but because their work ethic is VERY different then what I was used from my working life in the US.

The Swiss are socially responsible. The mentally ill, the elderly, children...they are all very well looked after. Law enforcement and corrections is about rehabilitation.

I lived in Luzern, and every day I would take the train/bus to work. And guess what? So did the CEO of one of the major world banks ! The point being that you could be living next to a millionaire and never know it. They just aren't a materialistic and pretentious people. One huge difference between Switzerland and the US and UK is the rates of homeownership - The Swiss are renters. No mortages means a hell of a lot more freedom in my opinion.

Now all that being said, I ended up leaving Switzerland. Why? As much as I love the country and the people I just never could fit in as much I wanted. I was TOO AMERICAN. A lifetime of being "American" made it har dto let go and integrate properly. Today I live in the UK, but when I get old, or if I were to get sick, or I felt that world events were damn close to the proverbial end I'd be back in a heartbeat.

And for the poster who mentioned how some apartments are advertised as Swiss only - Yep. I ran into that quite a bit. I took me ages to get my first place. I finally got an apartment in a "bad" part of town - bad being relative of course.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Swordbeast

The bigger problem seems to be the perception that foreigners get Swiss citizenship but never truly integrate into our society and then at some point commit crimes.
This has been pushed somewhat by our media, in light of some recent knife-fights and massive speedings with multiple lethal accidents, that involved mainly people from the Balkans and Turkey.


You don't need to rely on the media. Here in the US the media actually downplays the race factor when it comes to crime; if one looks at the actual government statistics (not easy to find) it is quite shocking to see the reality. Do not assume it is media hype, research your own violent crime statistics and base your opinion on facts.

The Swiss need to stop worrying about being pc. Switzerland should not feel at ALL obligated to open their doors and allow outsiders to become citizens if they will p#SS all over Swiss culture and change the fabric of Swiss society. That is what the U.S. and the U.K. are for. Plus the foreign workers come to Switzerland because they can make MORE MONEY. Great! They can make their money on temporary work visas and then go home.



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