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Religion has a place here at ATS, we need to get over it and let people post with religious content

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posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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Yes, but do you understand that in experiencing this and in seeing this that I know that these people are seeing the truth for the first time through these emotional signs. Nah, I don't necessarily like causing pain and discomfort, but at the current time on this planet there isn't much else that happens in general, and especially isn't much else that happens when I uproot someone's deceptive beliefs and brainwashed religious system.
So you think you have an excuse, alot of people are suffering, so it is ok if i induce it myself. But if these people are not suffering, why would you actively seek it. Does your logic demand that you must actively define that there is only one way to exist, and that to not exist the way it demands you induce suffering by attacking the existence of another, until they give up there previously held explanation for that existence. You said, and i quote

" I could care less about how it makes you feel, I'd rather have the truth and stand strong for honesty."
and this...

I take much joy in watching the religious squirm, run and grab for whatever lies they can make up to save theirselves.
This contradicts your statement

Nah, I don't necessarily like causing pain and discomfort,

You would think that if people were shown the truth, they would be happy. Maybe your method is lacking, or your logic is flawed. If your truth is absolute, how could people reject it.



I have no beliefs
Ok. I explained my use of the word, as you have explained your lack of need for that word.


I don't need to prove that anything is generally accepted as fact because every new fact starts out as considered to be "fringe" or "informal" or not a "general consensus".
So others consider your "fringe" and "Informal" as not factual until it has a consensis. Do you have a formal version of your Fact. As by informal i take it you mean that your arguement is presented here in an ordinary fashion. Is your logic informal also. Cannot others offer informal religious "facts". The word of God. On a public forum.


My facts logically prove their self. So far no one has ever disputed them. The only opposition I face is the occasional character attack or average Joe trying to debunk it that has no real understanding of what's being conveyed to begin with.
Are we not "all average joe's", i remember you saying that we are all

We're all equally as important.
. You throw alot of character attacks around too. How can you dispute an opinion. You have shown me no proof that the Universe is eternal. You have shown me no observations that the universe if infinite. My opinion is that God created the Universe. All i can offer is personal testimony from the bible and what you label "creationist science". Can show me the Factual evidence that states that the universe is Eternal and infinite and That accounts for the Origins of Life.


There's not many places to go. Message boards on the internet are the best. People come here because they want debate and they want to learn something new. You won't find that kind of environment with 100 drunks at a bar.
There are many places to Go and Spread your truth. Do you live in a free country(this is a serious question....i do not know where you live). When i was at university there where open forums for discussions like this. In my country there is community TV. Radio stations, pub and group nights in and around college and Uni campuses. I have been to many first world countries and have found venues similar or the same. Although the internet is alot easier.


If you are only realizing that your arguement is valid now, your logic must be inconsistent, and thus imperfect.


Good one, but not quite. I've just never thought about it like that, and to think about it like that; religion (faith) has no place at ATS: Deny Ignorance.


I know all about it, buddy. .... perpetual IGNORANCE.
To claim that is to live in perpetual ignorance. You cannot know it all.


How is your knowledge evidently superior in the context of your existence when held up to that of someone who believes in GOD(the one that is not yours).



Well, the fact that I have knowledge about my existence, what comes after and what came before... and they don't. They have faith; belief without evidence. They don't even have knowledge, so any knowledge that I have is by default superior to anyone who lacks that knowledge.
No. they have faith in God, who has passed knowledge or evidence in the form of the Old testament, and the teachings of Jesus.You do not accept this as knowledge. If this knowledge was inferior and imperfect, how have people survived, as logically nature would weed out this weakness and lack of economy. We do not see this. On a curious note, why do people who believe in a religion live longer, survival of the fittest. Is it natural to believe in God?, a logical conclusion that it is superior knowledge if it facilitates a longer existence.link


Excuse me? Did I ever claim to be the light and the way?
. Have you read the bible. There are many insights and wisdoms relevant to everyday life that help people cope or rationalize their experiences. This is why we see people posting from a religious perspective. How do you cope with death, how do you resist the temptation to become violent. People use it. Get over it. read My OP. They use it because it makes sense. How does simply existing help explain life. It does'nt. That is why people use religion.....whether you like it or not. We see this on ATS.


I'm not here to create a religion or write a book to warp and delude your minds

I thought you might have written it down to share with others. That is all. So others could read it so they can use it to enhance their lifes, like reading the Bible has, the Koran, Science journals etc.


Try taking the smartest on your planet and placing him on a globe full of monkeys and then have him explain the universe to them...
Lol. OK....or Perhaps you are the dumbest, frustrated to anger by expecting everyone else to believe your explanation. Thanks again for taking the time to reply to my questions and comments.
BTW....we won futsal 7-3.




posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
So you think you have an excuse, alot of people are suffering, so it is ok if i induce it myself. But if these people are not suffering, why would you actively seek it.


The planet is already suffering if you haven't noticed. People can't get along because they don't even know where they are or for what reason they are here, why they're here or who they are. It is not actively seeked, it is but an inescapable by-product.


Does your logic demand that you must actively define that there is only one way to exist, and that to not exist the way it demands you induce suffering by attacking the existence of another, until they give up there previously held explanation for that existence.


Attack? Again, if you call attacking self defense and revealing of the general truth of everyone's existence, then sure.


I take much joy in watching the religious squirm, run and grab for whatever lies they can make up to save theirselves.


This contradicts your statement


Nah, I don't necessarily like causing pain and discomfort,


Yes, I take much joy in seeing these things, it lets me know that I am making progress, it also gives me more and more confidence with each lie presented to me and each illogical fallacy served to me in defense of their existential, global intellectual scam and robbery.

There's a difference between "squirm, run and grab for lies"... contrast to "pain and discomfort."

No, I don't necesarrily like doing what I have to do, but I know what it will cause so I know when I witness this that I'm on the right track, make sense? It doesn't contradict.


You would think that if people were shown the truth, they would be happy. Maybe your method is lacking, or your logic is flawed. If your truth is absolute, how could people reject it.


They can reject it from ignorance, but once they immerse theirself in the actual logic involved relative to what they've been fed and told their whole lives, the rejection becomes a submission to truth. Remember, this logic isn't "mine", it's all of ours and for all of us.


Ok. I explained my use of the word, as you have explained your lack of need for that word.


Then please familiarize yourself with the definition already. I don't have beliefs, cognize this and converse with me as so. Thank you.


So others consider your "fringe" and "Informal" as not factual until it has a consensus.


Yes, that's how it always starts out.


Do you have a formal version of your Fact. As by informal i take it you mean that your arguement is presented here in an ordinary fashion. Is your logic informal also. Cannot others offer informal religious "facts". The word of God. On a public forum.


Yes, but if I was to speak the way that I desire to speak you'd be constantly running to the thesaurus. I'd rather keep it simple. Relative to you and most others the existential logic and knowledge being presented is not yet "fact" and can be considered "fringer" and "informal" relative to the current general consensus.


We're all equally as important.
.

Yes. Just because we're all equally important doesn't mean that no one is better than anyone else at anything. If we had a foot race I'm sure one of us would win, at which point in time we could conclude that one of us is a "better" runner as far as speed is concerned. The same can go for mental capacity, creativity, musical precocity, etc.

But in the big picture we're all equally as important. The man with only an 80 I.Q. that lacks the ability to perform multiplication but works in the grape vinyards to provide the economy and his world with food and drink is just as important as anyone else, though he does not have the cerebral abilities that some may have.


Can show me the Factual evidence that states that the universe is Eternal and infinite and That accounts for the Origins of Life.


Well for one I can point you back to the explanation of nothing. You can imagine the universe as a bubble and then ask yourself what's outside of it? If it's something, then there really is no outside, it's all connected eternally.

Whereas if its said that it is "nothing", then what is nothing? How could nothing be outside of it? It can not. Nothing is not something. Therefore the universe has no barriers and is an eternal space/time. Its expanse already immeasurable and not in a state of expansion. And in basic physics we are taught that energy is eternal, neither created or destroyed. Energy is space/time. Where E=S/T, S/T=, or ∞∈/∏=E... where space and time are congruent and E=energy.


There are many places to Go and Spread your truth. Do you live in a free country(this is a serious question.... ... I have been to many first world countries and have found venues similar or the same. Although the internet is alot easier.


True, there are many places to go, but these forums are the best places to get involved in active debate that can be re-read and saved, studied and meticulously pricked to perfect any flaws lingering. Plus, saves gas, saves time, so many plus sides.


To claim that is to live in perpetual ignorance. You cannot know it all.


About religions? Yes, I know all about what it does. To not know all about what it does is to continue to live in perpetual ignorance. You've got it backwards.


No. they have faith in God, who has passed knowledge or evidence in the form of the Old testament, and the teachings of Jesus.


Right. Faith: belief without evidence. This is just as silly as saying the flourescent pink unicorn gave me my knowledge. The teaching os Jesus? You mean this guy?

The Fraud of Jesus; Not A Bringer of Peace

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
The Lukan parallels (12:49–53,14:25–33) read:


There's many more if you'd like them. What a crazy nut that Jew was.

Some prince of peace, eh...
Not my savior, I'll tell you that.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
You do not accept this as knowledge. If this knowledge was inferior and imperfect, how have people survived, as logically nature would weed out this weakness and lack of economy.


Fortunately, nature works in ways that you do not understand. It weeds out the weakness while simultaneously making them stronger. See how I'm sharing all of my knowledge? I could keep it to myself... but the strong care about everyone and want everyone to survive and make it. I do accept this knowledge, I do not accept its logic nor do I accept its messenger, his antics, his words and his intents.


We do not see this. On a curious note, why do people who believe in a religion live longer, survival of the fittest.


Really? According to your religion we're all eternal anyway. No one lives longer, we just end up in a different place. It might also be that religions tend to eviscerate those that do not follow their all might ignorance cults.


Have you read the bible. There are many insights and wisdoms relevant to everyday life that help people cope or rationalize their experiences.


Yeah, I've read the Bible. It's never done anything but confuse me and ruin my life, rob me of my logic and my intellectualism, also of my free thought and the truth about my experience here in this mysterious, yet simple existence.


How do you cope with death, how do you resist the temptation to become violent.


I celebrate life and celebrate death. I don't ever feel tempted to become violent. I'm a sarcastic guy. Nothing really bothers me except for liars, deceivers and disrespecters. With them I give them a hefty dose of truth, self reflection and loss of friendship until they change their ways. I must understand what things help me react in the correct ways (what makes me feel best, what makes me achieve my pinnacles), through exposing myself to these things I experience theraputic treatment 24/7.


People use it. Get over it.


It uses people.


read My OP. They use it because it makes sense. How does simply existing help explain life. It doesn't.


Existing is life. Life is existence. Simply existing is why you're able to experience and explain life. Your arguments are deginerate.

They use it because they're too ignorant to realize that it doesn't make sense.


I thought you might have written it down to share with others. That is all. So others could read it so they can use it to enhance their lifes...


I promise you nothing but the truth. What it does to you is reaction.


BTW....we won futsal 7-3.


Congratulations.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

The planet is already suffering if you haven't noticed. People can't get along because they don't even know where they are or for what reason they are here, why they're here or who they are. It is not actively seeked, it is but an inescapable by-product.

I am aware of suffering, my point was to you personally. You who seek to make people suffer so you can laugh and have joy(your own words remember). BTW how do you know people feel this way as i know many people who have no issues with the points you raise....religion answers the questions you raise(bold highlite), you say that they are wrong. Is religion the cause of all suffering. No. Humans cause suffering, Priests, Scientists, Economists, Polititians, Soildiers, Lawyers, Doctors, Mothers, Fathers, Sisters, Brothers. You and I. All cause or can cause suffering. We can all do something to stop it too. People use religion to cause suffering....and guess what....to stop suffering.



general truth of everyone's existence, then sure.
You have still not done this. For yourself, great, good for you. I and others have another answer.


There's a difference between "squirm, run and grab for lies"... contrast to "pain and discomfort."

No, I don't necesarrily like doing what I have to do, but I know what it will cause so I know when I witness this that I'm on the right track, make sense? It doesn't contradict.
Scam. Lies. No logic....except unto yourself.


They can reject it from ignorance, but once they immerse theirself in the actual logic involved relative to what they've been fed and told their whole lives, the rejection becomes a submission to truth. Remember, this logic isn't "mine", it's all of ours and for all of us.
To be fair to you, i did what your answer suggested. I immersed myself in the idea of an eternal universe, i read, and read, and read more, on logic, on existential philosophy and the physi relating to an eternal universe. But, it just does'nt add up to me. Cause, No cause, Just existence of the Universe. But everything else i looked at has a cause, everything in my existence.....everything except your idea of the Universe(that being an eternal one that just exists. Your explanation of a universe that just exists, is inadequate, and not in line with what we observe, from a rational and logical perspective. This is why my reply has taken a while, which i know you will understand, and appreciate....i dare hope.


Yes, but if I was to speak the way that I desire to speak you'd be constantly running to the thesaurus. I'd rather keep it simple. Relative to you and most others the existential logic and knowledge being presented is not yet "fact" and can be considered "fringer" and "informal" relative to the current general consensus.
Please, don't hold back on my account. You seem to be having trouble even proving your theory of an eternal universe in "Laymens" terms.



Can show me the Factual evidence that states that the universe is Eternal and infinite and That accounts for the Origins of Life.


Well for one I can point you back to the explanation of nothing. You can imagine the universe as a bubble and then ask yourself what's outside of it? If it's something, then there really is no outside, it's all connected eternally.

Whereas if its said that it is "nothing", then what is nothing? How could nothing be outside of it? It can not. Nothing is not something. Therefore the universe has no barriers and is an eternal space/time. Its expanse already immeasurable and not in a state of expansion. And in basic physics we are taught that energy is eternal, neither created or destroyed. Energy is space/time. Where E=S/T, S/T=, or ∞∈/∏=E... where space and time are congruent and E=energy.

I have seen your explanation of "Nothing" before. This still does not account for what caused the universe and is as logical as claiming that there i a GOD who caused the universe. All you have done is say that the universe was just here....here an equation to back up the idea that the universe was always here. I can say, god created the universe, then apply E=mcc, point to CBM, and an observed expanding universe. The difference is that God is still viable in senario 2 and so to religious dogma.



True, there are many places to go, but these forums are the best places to get involved in active debate that can be re-read and saved, studied and meticulously pricked to perfect any flaws lingering. Plus, saves gas, saves time, so many plus sides.
Yeah, i hear you on the GA$ side of things. The down side is is that you only get to chat with "average joes". You may be limiting yourself and your ideas, and also possibly support for your thoughts.


About religions? Yes, I know all about what it does. To not know all about what it does is to continue to live in perpetual ignorance. You've got it backwards.
Well you obviously see no benefit from religion then do you. But this is not what we observe in life. As you have mentioned before, there is alot of suffering in the world, religions has an answer for suffering, and a way to rationalize and quantify it to the sufferer. You simply offer it as an existence, an experience. Is there logic to suffereing, is there a logic in those who cause it......as you can rationalise the suffering you induce, so too can others.......what do you offer to counter it. Is hope irrational, without logic. To hope, to pray? Eugenics is logical? Communism seemed logical? A belief in Aliens is Logical.
Why am I here? What do i exist for? Am I a good person? How should I live my life?Should i help others? Why should I help others? These are example of simple questions that people ask themselves. These questions can easily be answered by using religion, this is why people use it. You may have no problem answering these questions using your explanation of the Universe, and perfect logic, but it is obvious others do, otherwise we would see it being applied in the mainstream, instead of religion.

I currently busy with other interests, a good friend entered us into a music/poetry contest so i am busy coming up with a few tunes for her and i will not answer your whole post, although i do appreciate your reply, i have read it all, and hope this acknowledges its content. Thx again.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 


wow i agree im tired of being picked on because i am a religious person and want to post my views even if i dont attack someone they attack me because i post an opinion thats in there point of view just as absurd as theirs



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by iesus_freak
reply to post by atlasastro
 


wow i agree im tired of being picked on because i am a religious person and want to post my views even if i dont attack someone they attack me because i post an opinion thats in there point of view just as absurd as theirs

Thankf for your reply. Don't give up posting what you believe. But i would would also urge you to be repectful of threads and make sure that your reply is on topic and relevant to the thread.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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What's irritating above religiously themed posts is that they can be found in virtually any forum (aliens, predictions & prophesy etc.), suggesting that they are about these subjects. But usually they are not. They are just about religion. Usually the poster is just taking another opportunity to spread their particular gospel (or whatever).

I have absolutely no interest in religion and it bores me senseless. So, I choose to research topics that reflect my interests. Yet, I'm usually still faced with loads of religion posts which would read identical, regardless of the forum they're posted in. Posts which are variations on "this prophet said blah blah blah about mankind's destiny." or "my religious book clearly says blah blah blah."

All posts with a significant religious content should go in a new forum simply called "Religion". If the people in that forum want sub-forums where they can pretend to discuss other subjects while batting each other over the head with old books, that's their choice.

But, religion is nearly always a subterfuge when it appears in other forums. And I am, at the very least, bored stiff by it.
edit on 26-4-2012 by jannerfish because: Just noticed the "Religion, Faith, And Theology" forum. That'll do as a place for all faithposting, keeping it off other fourms.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by jannerfish
What's irritating above religiously themed posts is that they can be found in virtually any forum (aliens, predictions & prophesy etc.), suggesting that they are about these subjects. But usually they are not. They are just about religion. Usually the poster is just taking another opportunity to spread their particular gospel (or whatever).

Aliens, predictions and prophecy are all religious in nature. A belief in aliens is as religious as any other belief in abstract beings.
Predictions and prophecy are intrinsic to most religions or any other supernatural beliefs.

The reason why religion appears in most forums(as I explain in my OP, did you care to read it?) is because people use religion or rely on religion to help them explain or understand the world.


I have absolutely no interest in religion and it bores me senseless. So, I choose to research topics that reflect my interests. Yet, I'm usually still faced with loads of religion posts which would read identical, regardless of the forum they're posted in. Posts which are variations on "this prophet said blah blah blah about mankind's destiny." or "my religious book clearly says blah blah blah."
What is interesting is that there are just as many post complaining about religion from people who clain to have no interest in it at all.
Quite amusing really.


All posts with a significant religious content should go in a new forum simply called "Religion". If the people in that forum want sub-forums where they can pretend to discuss other subjects while batting each other over the head with old books, that's their choice.

So now you want to censor people hey.
Hmmmm.

If thats the case then, what do we define as religious in nature on ATS?

Because a belief in aliens is entirely religious in nature!
In fact, there are organised religious beliefs constructed around alien mthology. Scientology, Heaven's Gate, Raelism just to name a few!

Are you tired of all the religious posts about Aliens?


But, religion is nearly always a subterfuge when it appears in other forums.
Nearly always subterfuge? Prove it.


And I am, at the very least, bored stiff by it.
edit on 26-4-2012 by jannerfish because: Just noticed the "Religion, Faith, And Theology" forum. That'll do as a place for all faithposting, keeping it off other fourms.


I can see how bored you are with it as you are posting in a thread that is years old.
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