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Religion has a place here at ATS, we need to get over it and let people post with religious content

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posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax

In fact, I am simply pointing that if one's religious belief is thought sufficient to substantiate a point one is making, then any claimed belief belief should be equally sufficient. Ask yourself: what would happen to discussion on ATS then? You know the answer: it would descend to the intellectual level of the nursery and the sandbox. 'I know there is a Santa Claus because Petunia told me so! It's true, it's true, it's true.
If they make a claim, they make a claim.....how many threads are started with claims, that are eventually debunked etc.....it's par for the course here, in fact i have seen some great example of this lately, and i have learnt a lot from the way people deconstruct claims. I have found it invaluable when approaching sources of information on many other websites related to UFO phenomena and religion, but i am straying here. The same with replies. it is a public forum.....and you do not have to reply or respond to these claims or beliefs.


Is that what you want for ATS, atlasastro?
No, of course not. But you don't always get what you want.



Thank you for taking the trouble to spell my name correctly. I know it's a bit of a mouthful.
its a cool name, and it is a polite and friendly gesture. You are taking time to discuss this with me, which i appreciate, as i know you have received a lot of traffic on your own thread. So i think it can't hurt to personalise my comments to you. BTW, Petunia says Hi.


Do you have another model of proof, atlasastro? The 'scientific' model is only a somewhat formalised version of the kind of proof that is accepted in courtrooms, schoolrooms, bedrooms ('You've been with some hussy again -- there's lipstick on your collar!') and just about everywhere else. It's called proof based on evidence. Of course evidence can be contested -- but there has to be some in the first place. Religious belief is not evidence, so it cannot be used as grounds for proof of anything.
Me personally, no. But i know and accept that others do, or perhaps it is fairer to say that they do not accept the one that we do. The one that prefers evidence, in strength. I think i mention in my OP this point you make, and question why it is that people ignore science(especially when it comes to ToE) when it provides us with the best possible explanation. And that alternative model is Religion. That is my point. People who define their beliefs on this system are obviously going to reject the scientific model in relation to these questions. And the fact that you refuse to accept this based on our model means about as much to them, as theirs does to you. Let 'em post. Make your arguments against them,if you wish. I understand your view on crystallising the arguments so both sides can avoid the constant appearance of certain rhetoric, but i think this is exclusive.


And now - what is this site about? It's about proving and disproving conspiracies and strange phenomena. So, tell me again - what place does religion have in that?
some people use it to explain these topics, rationalise them, quantify them. As you use the scientific model, they use religion...weather you like it or not.



No. But they have only themselves to blame if what is expressed is not respectable, and gets treated with accordingly.
I am cool with that......just let 'em post, rather than calling for a restriction or a policing of content.
Look at it this way. Science agrees that there could be a God that created humans, the earth, the universe, but also offers us scientific theory on creation from observations and experiments etc. Science also says that Alien Life is possible, but also states that the probability that all the right conditions are present at the exact same time for it to succeed make it extremely improbable. In the Aliens and UFO threads i have read countless posts on Alien Abductions and contactee experiences. Currently there is hardly any solid evidence that these experiences are real. These accounts are always reliant on personal testimony and belief. The person making the claims believes they have had an experience and attributes it to Aliens. Science also tells these people that there are other more probable causes that have been observed and tested, yet in the vast majority of cases, these people with these experiences will not accept this explanation. They all share many similar themes and characteristics, as do those posts that question them. Do you see the similarity to creation Conspiracy. Same content, often repeated, no scientific proof. Based on personal beliefs and testimony. A rejection of a scientific explanation for their belief. If we were to apply your suggestions on the Creation Con. Forum to aliens and UFO we would just put up a Standard Alien Abductee Experience Thread listing the most common characteristics, the equivalent Scientific arguement that explains those common characteristics and call it a day.



Assuredly. But a little reflection will show that 'basic human respect' has nothing to do with this issue.
I think it does. you can respect their right to post, reflect on that post if you so choose, and then take it from there.

BTW i am actually going to create a thread for the creation con. forum as you have given me a great deal of food for thought on this topic. I think i owe your efforts to improve the creationists Conspiracy forum. I just hope i can add something that you can appreciate. I promise i will only use a little bit of the religious model.




posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 08:02 AM
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Astyanax, I'm sorry I screwed up your name. It wasn't personal, I'm sure you know.



Originally posted by Astyanax
Oh no. Absolutely not. In fairness to me, BH, I think you should at least read my original post in that thread if you intend making comments on my position.


I did read your original post. I read the first three posts, in fact. The reason I think you're asking for special discrimination where religious posts are concerned is that in the third post, you're very specific about which posts should be "targeted".


Originally posted by Astyanax
I believe the moderators should exercise their authority to refer posters to Nygdan's thread. New threads about the same old claims he mentions and refutes should not be permitted. Moderators should point out that the topic is already covered in the forum (on Nygdan's thread, or elsewhere) and close the offending new thread. Additionally, the moderators should come down on any posts regarding claims already dealt with on the stickied thread.


You do go on to say that all members should be treated equally (and I agree), but your post seems to me to be asking for discrimination of certain religious content. Every day, there are new threads about the same old content. Aliens, 9/11, Obama, take your pick. I'm using the word "discrimination" to mean "to make a distinction" between religious content and other content on the board. If that's not what you're doing, please point out my error.

Not everything on ATS must be proven. Not everything has to have a scientific source behind it. We have people talking about dreams, alien abduction, government "secrets", psychic phenomena, life on Mars, UFOs, media brainwashing... That is the content of ATS. Some wild, "out-there" suppositions and claims.



Religious belief is not evidence, so it cannot be used as grounds for proof of anything.


Not in court, perhaps. But this is a discussion board.



And now - what is this site about? It's about proving and disproving conspiracies and strange phenomena.


Really? Where is that stated? There's a section for mythical beasts! Mythical. I refer you to the "About ATS" page to see that the site isn't about proving and disproving anything. It's about denying ignorance, not shutting it down.

This is just my opinion. Perhaps staff feels differently about it. I ignore the people that I feel are living in a fantasy world. I have no reason to bring them out of their stupor or make them see the light or make them prove their position.

A creationist cannot "leach the life out of discussions" unless the people respond to them and allow them to do so. Arguing with a position gives it power and credence. THAT'S where your power is. NOT in convincing the moderation team to do something about it, but convincing people who wish to discuss without creationist interference to IGNORE them. Put them on ignore if necessary. Put something in your signature. Talk to others on the board.

If I have totally missed your intention, then I apologize. But it really seems to me that you want some intervention as regards staff in this matter. It's one thing to notify staff when someone is off topic and clearly taking a thread in another direction. I totally support that. Derailing threads by the same people should (in my opinion) be looked at. If there's a group of people who seem to have a mission to derail threads, then notify staff.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 
Thanks again BH. I sure am glad that you see Astyanax' point concerning religious content in posts in the same way that i do. This is why i started the thread. I can fully understand his concern, but his solution is discriminatory.
It is also nice to see you pick apart someone elses reply with the same precision you did mine. Once again thanks for you input.




posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

Yes, I agree with atlasastro. Well dissected, BH.

I think what appears as discrimination only arises because religion demands special treatment. I don't see why those rules shouldn't apply to everybody. It would cut down the number of threads and make for better quality ones.



posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 10:55 AM
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I'm not trying to "dissect" anybody.
I'm debating point-by-point. I support everyone's right to express themselves. I hope that's clear.


Originally posted by Astyanax
I think what appears as discrimination only arises because religion demands special treatment.


Do they GET special treatment?



I don't see why those rules shouldn't apply to everybody.


I think they should and I think they do. Maybe I'm missing something. Can you show me where the rules don't apply to the religious?



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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As Astyanax stated with the presentation of the B.A. ToC, I'd also like to see something of the likes implimented. When one subject's credibility is completely negated without any further chance of credible redemption, that subject should be placed in a special box of argumentative no-no's. If not, then oh well, I can deal with repeating myself.

I will not, on the other hand, soften up for anyone. If you wish to express your religious views then I will drop the hammer hard on you. So if you see me around you should think twice about becoming the nail while discussing with me if you want your ridiculous unevidential p.o.v.'s to be substantially sustained.

I have and will continue to annihilate all religious dogma. I could care less about how it makes you feel, I'd rather have the truth and stand strong for honesty. People's shizophrenia and imaginary friend delusions won't persuade me into their cults.

So, have your place on ATS, but don't be saddened when I put you in your place.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 03:26 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

I will not, on the other hand, soften up for anyone. If you wish to express your religious views then I will drop the hammer hard on you. So if you see me around you should think twice about becoming the nail while discussing with me if you want your ridiculous unevidential p.o.v.'s to be substantially sustained.

I have and will continue to annihilate all religious dogma. I could care less about how it makes you feel, I'd rather have the truth and stand strong for honesty. People's shizophrenia and imaginary friend delusions won't persuade me into their cults.

So, have your place on ATS, but don't be saddened when I put you in your place.


I would have thought that after reading many of your more constructive and inspiring posts on other threads you would have more to offer than mere territorial pissing and internet bravado. But you are free to express your beliefs as i have constantly stated and which is what this thread is all about.
It might also be worth noting that nailing religious believers in the past has changed nothing. Can you annihilate the eternal.....i think not, but do by all means continue to try.
God loves a tryer.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by atlasastro]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 


I didn't say anything about God, I said religious dogma, I in fact do have a God, it's called the universe.

And for the record this goes with me everywhere, not only on the internet.

I take much joy in watching the religious squirm, run and grab for whatever lies they can make up to save theirselves. It has me immersed in a constant frenzy of laughter at their deception and desparity.

P.s. I don't have a belief system.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: to all. 1st know thyself intimately first. this will tell you your needs,hungers and desires ie what's driving you and where its driving you to! And in this case why are you posting what you post and to whom are you posting it to. If you Don't know who you are you are lost. To find your self go look in the mirror and at the T&C. Study intently.

2nd intimately know thy enviroment. It will impact on you directly. Knowing it intimately will allow you to exploit its advantages and avoid its disadvantages. And in this case posting in the right ATS/BTS thread arena
will prevent a kind of doing the wrong thing cross pollenation Fauxpar. If you don't know where you are then you are lost, and its the same with not knowing where to go. To find yourself go lurk over various maps/ forum boards and the T&C. Study intently.

Personal Disclosure: Its all fun and games until someone breaches the T&C. Lost people tend to break the T&C. Please don't get lost, conversely seek and ye shall find.
Its called Studying intently. People who study well
usually pass tests including unexpected snap tests. Pass the ATS/BTS test and deny ignorance in yourself first.

P.S. Pastor Jesse Duplantis once said "the Bible does not make sense. It makes faith!" and I agree with him fully on this matter.

Become totally disillusioned and finally see everything for real. Think Globally Act Locally Feel Internally.DENY IGNORANCE 1st.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by OmegaLogos
"the Bible does not make sense. It makes faith!" and I agree with him fully on this matter.


What are you meaning by this? That you embrace faith or acknowledge that faith is the belief in ignorance?



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Good luck in attempting to get ATSers to "rise above themselves.".


Oh man, so true for people in general.

I'm not a religious freak, I'm just a freak period!


Although I do like to think that I have some morals, I just gotta figure out where they come from and hopefully this section of ATS will help guide me!



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: I whole heartedly agree with the latter.


Personal Disclosure: But I'm no stranger to the former.

Become totally disillusioned and finally see everything for real. Think Globally Act Locally Feel Internally.DENY IGNORANCE 1st.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 05:35 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


I didn't say anything about God, I said religious dogma, I in fact do have a God, it's called the universe.
It is only religious dogma to you, that is what you personally believe. Which is the point of my thread. Others accept it as the truth, the word of god etc. That is why they use it to explain many topics on ATS, and why it should be expected and accepted, I am not asking you believe it, or even reply to it. Regardless of what you or others believe or do not believe, they can post it. Are you happy with your life? are you comfortable with how you interpret and interact with the world? Are you emotionally and physically safe at the moment?


And for the record this goes with me everywhere, not only on the internet.
As this is based on personal testimony I have to take it on faith that you speak the truth, which i will. This still doesn't mean that your bravado and mere territorial pissings, which you say are not isolated to the internet, is adding anything to the thread.


I take much joy in watching the religious squirm, run and grab for whatever lies they can make up to save theirselves. It has me immersed in a constant frenzy of laughter at their deception and desparity.
This is a result of your beliefs, and you are entitled to it, as sad as it is. If as you have said on other posts, Existence is perfection than you have to accept that every other persons existence is perfection regardless of the manifestations of a belief in religious dogma or doctrine. If perfection is based on accepting one certain belief while existing, than that is no different to religion. So welcome to the religious club, come in sit down and try not to squirm so much.


P.s. I don't have a belief system.

» Religion, Faith, And Theology » Religion has a place here at ATS, we need to get over it and let people post with religious content » Post Reply

I could argue that as this is a forum for such discussion, that your posts are no different from those religious dogma type posts that others here at ATS have complained about. You are offering nothing to this thread but arguments that are stupid to the Forum topic. You are here to express that you have no belief in a Religion, Faith and theology on a Religion, Faith, and Theology thread. That in fact you have no belief system. You offer nothing. Why are you here? To destroy dogma.....on a Thread Forum set aside to discuss that topic?
hmmm....Astyanax believed that creationists where destroying the Creationist conspiracy Thread by attempting to destroy debates by offering nothing, and after hearing him out i have to agree that he was right in many respects, especially regarding the same arguments repeatedly stated. How are you any different. You have no belief....you have nothing to offer here. Have the creationist succeeded...No, Will you....No, why, because you have nothing to offer.......oh except territorial pissing and internet bravado.
At least i won't be crying or calling for any one type of poster on any one type of topic to be policed or banned. As that is the sole purpose of this thread. People can post what they want regardless of the perspective or rationale that inspires that post.
Once again thank you for taking the time to reply. Please by all means do so again when you have something to offer on the topic other than "no belief system" or juvenile "mission statements on religious cleansing".
p.s. Jesus was a carpenter, he might be able to show you how to hammer nails properly. Just a suggestion.



[edit on 21-6-2008 by atlasastro]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by OmegaLogos


Become totally disillusioned and finally see everything for real. Think Globally Act Locally Feel Internally.DENY IGNORANCE 1st.

thank you for your reply. Very wise words. This thread was started after i had read three threads all criticising religious posts, all appeared at the same time. I was disillusioned by this, but to say it was total would be an exaggeration. Do we ignore religious posts as a personal perspective or explanation on a variety of topics and still hold onto a creed of DENY IGNORANCE? To eliminate one or any possible explanation, opinion, perspective or belief on any topics is infact, encouraging ignorance.


[edit on 21-6-2008 by atlasastro]



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
It is only religious dogma to you, that is what you personally believe.


As I've told you numerously now: I don't have beliefs. I deal only in logic, fact and knowledge. You're quickly losing my respect of you because you do not respect me.


So welcome to the religious club, come in sit down and try not to squirm so much.


I do not have beliefs. I know perfection and I know my God. I am not a part of any religion. I dismiss your welcome as disrespectful taunts. I will, read again, I will destroy all that religion currently stands for and will set the record straight.



» Religion, Faith, And Theology » Religion has a place here at ATS, we need to get over it and let people post with religious content » Post Reply


Actually I'm starting to realize that it doesn't have a place here at ATS. With the motto of "deny ignorance", faith in itself is ignorance. To essentially create a subforum where the ignorant can gather is a contradiction of the site motto. Maybe something that should be considered.


Faith
belief that is not based on proof:

Link

[edit on 22-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: Thanks for the Kudo's.


You say and I quote "I was disillusioned by this, but to say it was total would be an exaggeration." so I must ask "So you still hold/see illusions that amaze , astound and or confound you, that concern this subject matter?" and if your answer is yes then maybe I could help deny any ignorance.


Then you say and I quote "Do we ignore religious posts as a personal perspective or explanation on a variety of topics and still hold onto a creed of DENY IGNORANCE? To eliminate one or any possible explanation, opinion, perspective or belief on any topics is infact, encouraging ignorance." and IMO the entire ATS/BTS site is a Meme based Battle ground (a battle of ideas and ideologies) and this includes the religious faith forum as well. All ideas are welcome on the battlefield to be tested as to their robustness and endurance in defence of themselves and also tested on how strong and skillfull they are in attacking(debunking) other idea's and ideologies and in the end the Surviving Meme wins over the evolutionary dead end Meme which quickly goes extinct in usage (but not necissarily extinct in collective memory). Religious Memes are just the same as any other type of Meme expressed on this website and just as open to debunking as to have it otherwise would be to empower ignorance (No Meme is sacredly uncontestable unless its the ultimate meme that wins all battles). When a persons Meme has failed to serve them they are left very few options and either take on board the Meme that bested their Meme or they can remain in illusion but because they now know this is a false reality they get all pissy as this reflects negetively on themselves (ie their choices that they made) and they take this out by flaming the messenger of the the Meme message that won the Memetic war. People sulking and whinging when they loose is a disgusting willful display on their part and shows that they wish to encourage ignorance and I feel such actions displayed by anybody should be a red flag to any moderator to have a closer look.

Personal Disclosure: Congratulations on trying to even up the playing field by offering up a different POV by creating this thread as I personally appreciated finding a counter POV to the argument at hand.


Become totally disillusioned and finally see everything for real. Think Globally Act Locally Feel Internally.DENY IGNORANCE 1st.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by OmegaLogos

Explanation: Thanks for the Kudo's.

No prob.


You say and I quote "I was disillusioned by this, but to say it was total would be an exaggeration." so I must ask "So you still hold/see illusions that amaze , astound and or confound you, that concern this subject matter?" and if your answer is yes then maybe I could help deny any ignorance.
My illusion, i suspect, would be the title of this thread. And you are helping me. Thank you for your consideration and time.


Then you say and I quote "Do we ignore religious posts as a personal perspective or explanation on a variety of topics and still hold onto a creed of DENY IGNORANCE? To eliminate one or any possible explanation, opinion, perspective or belief on any topics is infact, encouraging ignorance." and IMO the entire ATS/BTS site is a Meme based Battle ground (a battle of ideas and ideologies) and this includes the religious faith forum as well. All ideas are welcome on the battlefield to be tested as to their robustness and endurance in defence of themselves and also tested on how strong and skillfull they are in attacking(debunking) other idea's and ideologies and in the end the Surviving Meme wins over the evolutionary dead end Meme which quickly goes extinct in usage (but not necissarily extinct in collective memory).
Your are absolutely right. This is what i would prefer. Let people post. I also see the positives of having any individuals personal beliefs tested, if they engage in any debate, from any perspective. You learn from this process. Regardless of wether your ideas are from a stronger or weaker POV.This is a part of life, and ATS/BTS life also.


Religious Memes are just the same as any other type of Meme expressed on this website and just as open to debunking as to have it otherwise would be to empower ignorance (No Meme is sacredly uncontestable unless its the ultimate meme that wins all battles)
.
You are preaching to the choir on this one. I think i have mentioned in this thread many times that i am not asking that people agree with religious posts, believe them or leave them untested. Let them have their say....and then pick your options. Argue, agree, disagree, add to, ignore etc. I don't think Censorship, or restriction should be an option. Which i argue via this thread.



When a persons Meme has failed to serve them they are left very few options and either take on board the Meme that bested their Meme or they can remain in illusion but because they now know this is a false reality they get all pissy as this reflects negetively on themselves (ie their choices that they made) and they take this out by flaming the messenger of the the Meme message that won the Memetic war. People sulking and whinging when they loose is a disgusting willful display on their part and shows that they wish to encourage ignorance and I feel such actions displayed by anybody should be a red flag to any moderator to have a closer look.
While i agree that this habit continues to exist and is dissapointing i think the Mods have it covered via the Alert option in posts. The forum participants have an option(although as it is a public forum i personally view it as an obligation) to use this to maintain a decent venue for topical discussion and debate. I might also add that the victor need behave in an appropriate manner also. As bad and ugly behaviour is not necessarily isolated to those that have bad ideas or poor arguements.


Personal Disclosure: Congratulations on trying to even up the playing field by offering up a different POV by creating this thread as I personally appreciated finding a counter POV to the argument at hand.

Thanks. I am glad you too see a need for balance on this matter. Thanks again for your reply.



[edit on 23-6-2008 by atlasastro]



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 03:37 AM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: No Probs and
's all round .
and

Personal Disclosure: Thanks for the heads up on the Alerts button as I hadn't noticed it before (I still new to the website )and will surely put it to good use when appropriate.



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

As I've told you numerously now: I don't have beliefs. I deal only in logic, fact and knowledge. You're quickly losing my respect of you because you do not respect me.
You believe i want repect from a human that actively seeks pleasure from another humans emotional pain and discomfort. I like your, what do you call it, logic. Although i admit you make some great points on other threads that i have learnt from. It is sad to see you regress to an angry ant. I believe you have a belief, i use the word belief to describe your POV. i am sorry that you do not like my use of the word belief. But as i believe this is a public forum, i can use this word to explain your confidence that your knowledge is true and undisputed. You have not shown that your knowledge of what is true in relation to your beliefs is generally undisputed and generally accepted as fact(eternal universe, infinite consciousness) as no doubt you will argue that those offering a belief in religious doctrine or dogma have failed to do aswell.


I do not have beliefs. I know perfection and I know my God. I am not a part of any religion. I dismiss your welcome as disrespectful taunts. I will, read again, I will destroy all that religion currently stands for and will set the record straight.
What record would that be, is this a reference to your music collection or the history of Religion, Faith and Theology at ATS. Well for your sake, i hope the universe is eternal, as you will need all of that time to suceed.
How is the Faith, religion and Theology forum looking. Any success yet. I must say, you are starting small. Need to build your confidence? A public internet forum. Way to go, go get 'em tiger. BTW, the POPE is comming to my city in three weeks time and i often go into the WYDO executive on behalf of two of my clients, Maybe i can ask around and see if the Pontif can Log on to ATS so you can have a shot at him.What say you.



Actually I'm starting to realize that it doesn't have a place here at ATS. With the motto of "deny ignorance", faith in itself is ignorance. To essentially create a subforum where the ignorant can gather is a contradiction of the site motto. Maybe something that should be considered.
If you are only realizing that your arguement is valid now, your logic must be inconsistent, and thus imperfect. You either accept religion has a place or you don't. I would say that you are ignorant of what religions role is to an individual. Wether you accept something is true or not is of little consequence to someone posting from that POV. As the evidence here would suggest. You do not understand religion. Learn what it is, learn how it is used. Tell me, are you any better off than those who practice a religion, do you hold a greater significant place within society due to the POV you have on the universe. How is your knowledge evidently superior in the context of your existence when held up to that of someone who believes in GOD(the one that is not yours). Have you published a book that offers wisdom, insight and inspiration that helps one deal with life purely derived from the idea that the universe is eternal, if so i would like to read it so i can compare it to other religious material. All you offer is hate, anger, and threats. I do not need that to experience the best possible life. They have no logical place in my life. It is sad to see they do in yours.



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
You believe i want repect from a human that actively seeks pleasure from another humans emotional pain and discomfort.


Yes, but do you understand that in experiencing this and in seeing this that I know that these people are seeing the truth for the first time through these emotional signs. Nah, I don't necessarily like causing pain and discomfort, but at the current time on this planet there isn't much else that happens in general, and especially isn't much else that happens when I uproot someone's deceptive beliefs and brainwashed religious system.


I believe you have a belief,


Until you can dispute this irrtefutably, I will continue to detest. I have no beliefs, only infallible existential logic, knowledge and science.


You have not shown that your knowledge of what is true in relation to your beliefs is generally undisputed and generally accepted as fact(eternal universe, infinite consciousness) as no doubt you will argue that those offering a belief in religious doctrine or dogma have failed to do aswell.


I don't have a contrast between what is true and my beliefs, because I don't have any beliefs, only the knowledge of what is true.

I don't need to prove that anything is generally accepted as fact because every new fact starts out as considered to be "fringe" or "informal" or not a "general consensus".

My facts logically prove their self. So far no one has ever disputed them. The only opposition I face is the occasional character attack or average Joe trying to debunk it that has no real understanding of what's being conveyed to begin with.


Well for your sake, i hope the universe is eternal, as you will need all of that time to succeed.


Then I already have. As I said, eternity is not a totality of measurement, it is a constant immeasurable. Eternity is now; I have succeeded.


What say you.


Oh, I'd love to. What a relief. Start small? There's not many places to go. Message boards on the internet are the best. People come here because they want debate and they want to learn something new. You won't find that kind of environment with 100 drunks at a bar.


If you are only realizing that your arguement is valid now, your logic must be inconsistent, and thus imperfect.


Good one, but not quite. I've just never thought about it like that, and to think about it like that; religion (faith) has no place at ATS: Deny Ignorance.


I would say that you are ignorant of what religions role is to an individual.


Well then what you would say is incorrect. I am very aware of what religion does to individuals.


As the evidence here would suggest. You do not understand religion. Learn what it is, learn how it is used.


I know all about it, buddy. Your assumptions and opinions means absolutely nothing, as I've stated so many times now. You know where your assumptions, opinions and presumptions about me come from? A little thing that religion brainwashed you into doing... it's called faith... belief without evidence... which is.... perpetual IGNORANCE.


Tell me, are you any better off than those who practice a religion, do you hold a greater significant place within society due to the POV you have on the universe.


Yes, in one sense, no in another. We're all equally as important. You may call it a point of view. As it is a point of view... an objective one.


How is your knowledge evidently superior in the context of your existence when held up to that of someone who believes in GOD(the one that is not yours).


Well, the fact that I have knowledge about my existence, what comes after and what came before... and they don't. They have faith; belief without evidence. They don't even have knowledge, so any knowledge that I have is by default superior to anyone who lacks that knowledge.


Have you published a book that offers wisdom, insight and inspiration that helps one deal with life purely derived from the idea that the universe is eternal, if so i would like to read it so i can compare it to other religious material.


Excuse me? Did I ever claim to be the light and the way? Did I ever promise you that I'd never flood the world again through creating a rainbow?
Was I born of a virgin, raised from the dead and ascended to Heaven?
Heaven...
.... ohhhh Lord...


I'm not here to create a religion or write a book to warp and delude your minds, only to give you the truth that you've been lacking for so long and going insane over.


All you offer is hate, anger, and threats. I do not need that to experience the best possible life. They have no logical place in my life. It is sad to see they do in yours.


Threats? You mean that I will abolish the false Gods of religions through sound logic, well rooted academia, science and mathematics? I've already done that. It's not a threat. Hate and anger? Try taking the smartest on your planet and placing him on a globe full of monkeys and then have him explain the universe to them... you don't think he'd become a little annoyed every so often? But hate? Anger? Yes, I hate lies and deception and it angers me.

[edit on 24-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



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