Right To Life Historic Measure (that includes protection of every person from the time of fertilizat

Nice mom

How's the economy there, btw?
Real estate prices?
Weather?

That kinda leads into the next problem with this issue:

if the woman gets pregnant and the father doesn't want it
she is stuck in a difficult situation.
if she aborts, she sends her body into a hormonal tailspin,
which results in all kinds of additional problems that the guy
who got her pregnant doesn't even consider or care about
in many cases.

for this reason, i still believe the best way to resolve this issue
is to make it so unpopular to date a guy who hasn't taken any
preliminary precautions, and perhaps even unpopular to date a
guy who has no intention of marrying you (no such thing as
foolproof contraceptives), that guys will feel it is their
honor and sex life at stake, if they don't. it just isn't right
to do that to females. it isn't just a matter of rejection, it's
freakin' dangerous and potentially deadly.

reply to post by undo



hehe

you're naughty...planning behind hubbys back

Hmmm

lessseee....

Weather....In winter, it doesn't go below 10 Celsius often during the day, being close to the sea...

In summer, we average about 24-25 Celsius....Go look up the conversion from celsius to Fahrenheit on the net

okay...now to

Real estate prices...

Being right on the coast where I am, they are VERY expensive...

For example...I rent a VERY average 2 bed apartment about 5 miles from a bay beach and about 20 miles from an ocean beach for $170 p/w AUD...So it ain't cheap...

We have a huge problem with rental vacancies in Victoria, AUS atm...

Economy...High interest rates, but its pretty much going well, although slowing as a result of rate increases...

Hope this helps

Peace

reply to post by undo


I agree with you 1 million % that this is very much a man issue as much as anything else...

Put it this way, when and if I can get that vas deferen (sp) remote implant in me, I'll be right up the list...

Why should my lady have to put up with the side effects of the pill ? And why should we both put up with using rubbers ? And both of us again, why should we have to put up with very hard to reverse vasectomies...

See...We have a HUGE amount of common ground we didn't realise we had before

Peace

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by Annee

Yes - everyone has individual rights.

It's pretty pathetic however - - when you have to use law to force equal rights.

Unfortunately, the real culprit is not any particular way of life or belief system, but the inability to let others live and pursue their version of life and liberty.

Yes

If my version of life and liberty disagrees with yours, neither of us should be silenced or prejudiced against, and both should be afforded the same rights, even if our pamplets clearly outline how we disagree with each other. Those are your rights as clearly outlined in the constitution.[/quotes

Yes

I shouldn't be able to come to your store, let's say it's a store that sells atheist materials, books on the topics related to atheism, and I have on a t-shirt that says JESUS DIED FOR YOU and a pic of Jesus on it

Fi





and demand you hire me or else. Should you be required to hire me under force of law when you know I'm going to deliberately antagonize your customer base?
I don't know but that seems like that would be counterproductive to the pursuit of happiness, life and liberty, etc.



[edit on 1-6-2008 by undo]

reply to post by Bigwhammy

So, don't be going to the hairdressers, or the doctors either then? We have "freedoms" to govern our bodies, what we consume, how we exercise, receiving medical treatment (of many kinds), that we in general may be completely incapable of producing or engineering ourselves. Your argument doesn't bear up under analysis.

Should this kind of ruling also be taken to things such as obesity? Is letting a child eat junkfood (ever) an abuse? How's about pollution? Do you drive a car? Notice there's a link between air pollution and childhood illnesses/diseases, asthma being a fairly common one.

If children are suffering harm from any of the causes I've mentioned why is there no pro-life movement against them? My personal opinion is that women/families in an emotionally vulnerable state (ie, considering an abortion) are a far easier target for an essentialy "holier than thou" mindset that could actually be working towards a real change.

reply to post by Rilence

you're naughty...planning behind hubbys back

planning what?

i don't think they should make it mandatory, just create a push for it at the street level and in popular culture. popular culture made this mess, and now they need to fix it. it needs a major overhaul.

Sorry - that last post got messed up - - and I can't get into it to edit.

Lesson: #1 - - don't try to "forum" holding a 5 month old.

reply to post by undo


Explain what you've said here, some...

Its kinda vague ??

What is it you want here, exactly ?

Peace

reply to post by Rilence


you said i was being naughty, planning behind hubby's back.
i asked what you meant.

then i said, that the best possible solution to the current dilemma is to create the kind of responsibility in the male mindset at the street level, in popular culture. just like with the sexual revolution - it was a product of popular culture. it needs to be fine tuned, corrected, overhauled. it's a mess.

Originally posted by Reverend SamuelTophatJack
reply to post by riley

 

..which of course means ignoring the rape victim's voice.

Not entirely Mister wiley sir.How does murdering an innocent child and offering it up to evil lessen the blow of being raped? Now the por woman had to live with being a killer as well as being raped. You just worsened her trauma. How horrible to force women to murcer their babies by you feminazi propagandizing. Perhaps we can arrange for a quick adoption so the rape victim does not have to care for the child.

Oops, not sure how to edit this properly, but this is a reply to ReverendTopHat

So how's it going with this adoption agency you're setting up? Making lots of plans for fund raising? Investigating setting up counselling and support services for the victims of rape? You seem to be a man of god and I'm sure your efforts to this end are huge, it would of course be lazy and uncharitable of you to just prosetylse over the internet.

You have my utmost of regard for your noble mission.

[edit on 1-6-2008 by jokei]

reply to post by Annee


awww. baby or 5month old pet?
got pics ? girl or boy ?
i didn't quite get your answer, but i did see a "Yes" in there.

reply to post by undo



It was a joke I suggested you might be planning a move here.,..

Relax, it was just a bit of levity in this thread....Which probably needs it from time to time...

And again, I agree with you 10000000000000000 % that this issue should absolutely be a joint male/female at its heart....No doubt...

Which is why I said I would run hard to be first to have an implant which I could flick a remote and stop sperm entering my fluid when I ejaculate...

This has been tested recently and is going to be commercially available in few years, not many...

Quite painting me as someone who disagrees with you, its not right....Because I do...

However, the original should we use contraception or not and who should use it is a long way from the original premise of this thread...

That is, should abortion be legal or not...On this issue, my mind has not change MUCH...However if such a thing is legislated, then a firm number when it comes to a foetus having a good chance of surviving its original birth date must also be legislated...

As I've said in previous posts, medical authorities world wide often use 24 weeks as a bench mark...

However, a moratorium or criminalisation of abortion is a denial of human rights on the part of the person holding the foetus, and is just plain wrong...

IMHO, of course

Hence, I think leaving the current abortion laws alone and simply turning a blind eye to abortions as we do here in Victoria might be the way to go...

Peace

reply to post by Rilence


im not painting you as disagreeing, i'm just beating the drum, so every page of the thread (where newcomers might arrive and read last or most recent page), has the chance to see it. sorry if you thought otherwise.

i saw images of pine gap at alice springs on google earth, near a base there anyway, and wowzers. that place is FREAKY.

reply to post by undo



Damn straight Beth !!!

Pine Gap is WAY freaky....You got that in one

And yes, I see where you're coming from with regard to the thread overall...Too many blokes see contraception/conceiving a child as the womans responsibility...

And I'm sure we both agree this is just insane...Conception of a child is a joint responsibility...

Peace (and running out of words @ 6am)

Tony

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Annee

 

awww. baby or 5month old pet?
got pics ?

girl or boy ?
i didn't quite get your answer, but i did see a "Yes" in there.

Grandson - 2 legged kind. I'm the "nanny" - No pix - - I'm on a borrowed computer.

YES - I was trying to respond to each point you made - oh well - another time.

Originally posted by Reverend SamuelTophatJack
Satan is very real.

Oh I agree! But the only time satan ever bothers me is when there is a christian nearby. Why is that? Why do christians always seem to be keeping company with satan? Birds of a feather?

Seriously I can understand people being against abortion for purely logical reasons but when you bring imaginary beings into it you only make yourselves a laughing stock. If the right to life issue is a real world problem then why not keep your otherworldly phantasmagoria out of it?

reply to post by Lilitu

why not keep your otherworldly phantasmagoria out of it?

cause he doesn't have to? even if'n he's a troll, he's still got rights.

i think.

let me check.

we hold these truths to be self-evident ....etc etc.

well i suppose you could argue that a troll is not a human.
but he's human.

i think.

eh, let's go back to original assumption: cause he doesn't have to?


[edit on 1-6-2008 by undo]

reply to post by Annee


nana, yes?
we called grandmother, "grandma" (phonetically, "granmaw")
i still don't have grandkids. i'm both looking forward to it and not,
at the same time. not a very easy time in earth history, to be having
kids.

[edit on 1-6-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Annee

 

nana, yes?
we called grandmother, "grandma" (phonetically, "granmaw")
i still don't have grandkids. i'm both looking forward to it and not,
at the same time. not a very easy time in earth history, to be having
kids.

[edit on 1-6-2008 by undo]

NO it isn't. She was on birth control - was not planning on another child (she has 7 year old daughter - also not planned - was on birth control. There were other pregnancies as well - not going there.

I became pregnant with her while on birth control also. She wanted to have her tubes tied - but it was a Catholic hospital - they would not do it.

Sadly the father became ill and went into a coma 3 days after son's birth and died on Christmas morning.

Life throws curve balls - - I have no tolerance for those who preach moral superiority.