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Is this a Conspiracy site or a Religious debate Site

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posted on May, 31 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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The thing is... people who are tired of this religion crap are the minority... and we're told to shut up because "they are just people expressing their opinions about the world and you're just being disrespectful and intolerant".... Well, this is all fun and great... but I'm realizing more and more that most of these people (and people in general) have no opinions of their own. So honestly, we can nurture these people's ignorance, or we can kick it in the ass. Just a kick, that's all. A kick in the direction towards free thought, instead of contrived BS. Just because you're afraid of everything crashing down around you, doesn't mean you should wallow in something that's not working for your own comfort.

It's disrespectful to hold onto some belief for your own selfish comfort and not look at the world around you and the suffering that this lie has brought upon the world. It's a selfish comfort thing. It's like the fat kid eating most of the food when a bunch of children get stranded on an island and don't exactly know when they are gunna be rescued.

What? We gotta be nice and understanding towards that guy just because he has a weight problem and he's using up our resources just because he knows no other way? No, there's gunna be a harsh lesson involved.

Or else we will perish!

[edit on 31-5-2008 by dunwichwitch]

EDIT:

Maybe I sound a bit harsh. I have empathy. I really do... but I also have common sense, and common sense says that on this site, people don't wanna hear about how much you love control mechanisms that other people or systems have instilled into your brain.

So I'm a bit harsh towards people who are trumpetting things such as religion or thr greatness of America, or ANY of that stuff.

I'm a white guy. Would it be okay for me to go around saying "I'm white, and as a white guy, I believe that we should follow in the footsteps of our white ancestry...and savagely kill all other races just because they aren't white guys, too."

It's an extreme expample, but you get the point. That offends me just the way that racist biggotry offends others. As a whole, we should work towards ending ignorance on this site.

At the end of the day, I do not wish for these people to be banned or censored... but just told to cool it.

COOL IT! If you wanna mention your faith, go mention it in the Religious section, please!

Religion is like pornography to me. I can't stand people coming into an intelligent debate, and bringing religion into it. Just cool it about mentioning religious propaganda. Think for yourself.

There's a lot more going on than most of you realize, and it is actually TO YOUR DETRIMENT that you continue giving your power to these ideologies!

So... I'm on your side! People are gunna eventually have to save your ass if you choose to count on, because he ain't comin'! He ain't listenin'! He's fighting the good fight in another shape and form, maybe somewhere in another dimension. He did what he could, and now it's up to us to futher his message, not get stuck on his image or make a religion out of his words. Messages are more than just words and names!


[edit on 31-5-2008 by dunwichwitch]

[edit on 31-5-2008 by dunwichwitch]




posted on May, 31 2008 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Exactly my point, I see it as a conspiracy involving religious groups perhaps even some sort of orginized internet patrol, like you have noticed the gathering and flocking of threads without hiding the fact that it shows the intentions and agenda.

I guess ATS been a great site with so much traffic has emboldened groups to take advantage of an already popular site.

And that is expected.

Interesting to add myself that I will be watching what this will be turning into as more members starts to get tired of the thread flocking.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 08:53 PM
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I guess in order to keep the population in check for 2000 odd years Christianity has had to provide a complete world view.

Anything less allows people to start thinking for themselves.

These days most of the educated people have rejected Christianity (at least in its most dogmatic and stifling form). For those still on the Christian bandwagon, their religion holds a complete world view which can't be budged even an inch.

For them, every aspect of life, death and the universe must be exactly as the Bible spells it out (or how they think the bible spells it out) or their whole belief system is called into question.

Accordingly, every issue must be resolved with a reference to the Bible (or several, preferably in CAPS), or when that fails, the identification of the hand of 'Satan the deciever' at work.


Maybe Christianity was a consipiracy 500 years ago...now it's just crutch for the few left who aren't make the leap into thinking for themselves.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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This thread is mentioned in another.

Obviously, that person has no idea what kind of point I'm trying to get across..
And feels like he is being persecuted "Just my opinion"

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 12:15 AM
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Wow, I read the original post and I thought to myself how true how true.
It would be nice if people would keep their religious views out of threads that are not spiritual in nature so that people don't have to feel like they are being persecuted for "free thought"...
Then it all went down hill with the religion bashing.
For shame for shame.


[edit on 04/13/2008 by sacerd]



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by sacerd
 



I don't see any Religion bashing going on here.. Just a whole bunch of people sick and tired of having threads overwhelmed with religiosity.. which disrupts the original meaning of the post.



[edit on 1-6-2008 by Lantian]



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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Well, I wouldn't just say it's the religious people who get off topic or post ignorant posts. I've seen plenty of ignorant posts from all types from non-religious, religious and almost anti-religion. To blame it on the religious seems a bit silly to me. Maybe you've had personal bad experiences, but from what I've seen on ATS, in general, the posts seem to be getting off topic more and more, and more and more less thought out replies. I haven't seen any one group at fault though, it's just human nature it seems. I see so often religion gets blamed. In fact so many get mad at the way they think religion in the US is trying to take over. Again, it's not religion, it's humans. If people who say they are Christians truly acted like Christians, I would all but guarantee most of you would have no problem with them ever. The problem is that many outspoken say they are religious, but their words and actions are always different. It's the same reason why conspiracy theorists get a bad rap. There are so many ignorant, outspoken conspiracy theorists that they give the rest a bad name even though they are in the minority. Same deal. Doesn't mean all the conspiracy believers are nuts, it just stinks that some of the most outspoken are the worst kind but are the most visible. The religious on this site are very similar. The truly religious people keep their mouths shut on lots of issues. The poser ones are the ones you hear from. For example, read Jesus' philosophy. Learn as much as you can about it. Now, read what all these people say and see what they do, are they following Jesus? No way. They are truly not religious, they just talk about it and not live the life. You can't blame the truly religious for this. I'm pretty fed up with lots of the supposedly religious people on here, but it's not the religion I blame.


JPT



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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Allow me to demonstrate...

"Don't do it! It's disrespectful! We don't like having the Vatican's billion or so meat puppets spew their vomit down our throats constantly."

"we've got these people who think they are vocalizing their own opinions, when they are totally brainwashed and spewing the crap that we hated as children down our throats because they've been sufficiently traumatized into becoming Satan in a Blue Dress's neverending mouthpiece."

"That's a stretch... but I really do think that us simply having to put up with it is an outrage, because religion is a known and proven tool of instilling ignorance. It, inevitably like a virus, will infect and spread its ignorance across the board."

"The religious aspect is a BIG part of the problem. I respect people's opinions... when the opinions are born of their own thought pattern.
Quoting scripture is NOT YOUR OPINION."

"I myself have wondered if ATS promotes This contamination of Christianity
Into most Threads.. Lol.. It is like a Disease.. "

"I guess in order to keep the population in check for 2000 odd years Christianity has had to provide a complete world view.
Anything less allows people to start thinking for themselves."

"Maybe Christianity was a consipiracy 500 years ago...now it's just crutch for the few left who aren't make the leap into thinking for themselves."

Now if all this does not sound like bashing (borderline hate speech even) of religion and the peoples of various faiths who espouse them to you, then I have to ask what does.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by Lantian
reply to post by toasted
 


Your response was not on TOPIC!! Grrrrrrr.
Please read my first Post closely and try to comprehend it... Or I will Ignore you.. I don't want to do it but... I will.



" Is this a Conspiracy site or a Religious debate Site "

Does it have to be , either , or?

Seems to me, that you can't have one without the other.

The believers and non-believers need to be able to hash it out as it arises, period!



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by dunwichwitch
The thing is... people who are tired of this religion crap are the minority... and we're told to shut up because "they are just people expressing their opinions about the world and you're just being disrespectful and intolerant".... Well, this is all fun and great... but I'm realizing more and more that most of these people (and people in general) have no opinions of their own. So honestly, we can nurture these people's ignorance, or we can kick it in the ass. Just a kick, that's all. A kick in the direction towards free thought, instead of contrived BS. Just because you're afraid of everything crashing down around you, doesn't mean you should wallow in something that's not working for your own comfort.

It's disrespectful to hold onto some belief for your own selfish comfort and not look at the world around you and the suffering that this lie has brought upon the world. It's a selfish comfort thing. It's like the fat kid eating most of the food when a bunch of children get stranded on an island and don't exactly know when they are gunna be rescued.

What? We gotta be nice and understanding towards that guy just because he has a weight problem and he's using up our resources just because he knows no other way? No, there's gunna be a harsh lesson involved.

Or else we will perish!

[edit on 31-5-2008 by dunwichwitch]

EDIT:

Maybe I sound a bit harsh. I have empathy. I really do... but I also have common sense, and common sense says that on this site, people don't wanna hear about how much you love control mechanisms that other people or systems have instilled into your brain.

So I'm a bit harsh towards people who are trumpetting things such as religion or thr greatness of America, or ANY of that stuff.

I'm a white guy. Would it be okay for me to go around saying "I'm white, and as a white guy, I believe that we should follow in the footsteps of our white ancestry...and savagely kill all other races just because they aren't white guys, too."

It's an extreme expample, but you get the point. That offends me just the way that racist biggotry offends others. As a whole, we should work towards ending ignorance on this site.

At the end of the day, I do not wish for these people to be banned or censored... but just told to cool it.

COOL IT! If you wanna mention your faith, go mention it in the Religious section, please!

Religion is like pornography to me. I can't stand people coming into an intelligent debate, and bringing religion into it. Just cool it about mentioning religious propaganda. Think for yourself.

There's a lot more going on than most of you realize, and it is actually TO YOUR DETRIMENT that you continue giving your power to these ideologies!

So... I'm on your side! People are gunna eventually have to save your ass if you choose to count on, because he ain't comin'! He ain't listenin'! He's fighting the good fight in another shape and form, maybe somewhere in another dimension. He did what he could, and now it's up to us to futher his message, not get stuck on his image or make a religion out of his words. Messages are more than just words and names!


[edit on 31-5-2008 by dunwichwitch]

[edit on 31-5-2008 by dunwichwitch]


HERE HERE!
Star for you sir!



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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What I hate is when I'm reading several post of thoughtful, scientific discussion and I've completely fooled myself into thinking I'm actually going to learn something from it.

And then along come the Fundies to tell us that "this was all a prophecy" with a bunch of vague bible quotes that might be predicting something similar to the topic at hand.

So the scientific people try to refute that by showing examples of experiments that can be reproduced and observed, and citing tangible evidence, and then the Fundies come back on with their "But God is never wrong, so you must be" argument, and the thread degenerates.

And worst of all, when you ask them to stay on topic, they go off with "Well you just can't handle GOD" or some half-cocked thing like the first fundie posted on this thread.

And this is just what happens to the (relatively) good threads. On the really lame ones, you've also got people insisting everything relates to a giant invisible planet hurtling towards us through outer space, a bunch of shapeshifters trying to rule the world, and a bunch of emo kids who think they're "indigo children" or whatever they're calling themselves today. Oh, and 2012. Let's not forget that every single conceivable topic you could ever possibly discuss is somehow directly tied to 2012. Because, you know, 2000 already came and went.

It's enough to make me completely understand why that WolfofWar guy has half the site on his foes list and not a single friend.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by mattifikation
What I hate is when I'm reading several post of thoughtful, scientific discussion and I've completely fooled myself into thinking I'm actually going to learn something from it.

And then along come the Fundies to tell us that "this was all a prophecy" with a bunch of vague bible quotes that might be predicting something similar to the topic at hand.

So the scientific people try to refute that by showing examples of experiments that can be reproduced and observed, and citing tangible evidence, and then the Fundies come back on with their "But God is never wrong, so you must be" argument, and the thread degenerates.

And worst of all, when you ask them to stay on topic, they go off with "Well you just can't handle GOD" or some half-cocked thing like the first fundie posted on this thread.

And this is just what happens to the (relatively) good threads. On the really lame ones, you've also got people insisting everything relates to a giant invisible planet hurtling towards us through outer space, a bunch of shapeshifters trying to rule the world, and a bunch of emo kids who think they're "indigo children" or whatever they're calling themselves today. Oh, and 2012. Let's not forget that every single conceivable topic you could ever possibly discuss is somehow directly tied to 2012. Because, you know, 2000 already came and went.

It's enough to make me completely understand why that WolfofWar guy has half the site on his foes list and not a single friend.


I agree with you whole heartedly. I would imagine that that would get old, fast.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 02:05 AM
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Maybe this site is a conspiracy site about how religious debate is conspiratorial?

Or maybe this is a religious debate site debating the conspiratorial nature of conspiracy believers.?

Or maybe conspiratorial people will always have conspiracies about other people who are religious(or religiously atheist) who in turn have conspiracies about people who have different religious(or religiously atheist) beliefs while not realizing that people who have different religious(or religiously atheist) beliefs also have conspiracies about the original conspiratorial people in the first place.

Or maybe I am drunk.

But the truth is, on an open forum, people are going to say whatever they want and its up to the mods to keep a specific thread on topic.









[edit on 1-6-2008 by wutone]



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by mattifikation
What I hate is when I'm reading several post of thoughtful, scientific discussion and I've completely fooled myself into thinking I'm actually going to learn something from it.

And then along come the Fundies to tell us that "this was all a prophecy" with a bunch of vague bible quotes that might be predicting something similar to the topic at hand.

So the scientific people try to refute that by showing examples of experiments that can be reproduced and observed, and citing tangible evidence, and then the Fundies come back on with their "But God is never wrong, so you must be" argument, and the thread degenerates.

And worst of all, when you ask them to stay on topic, they go off with "Well you just can't handle GOD" or some half-cocked thing like the first fundie posted on this thread.

And this is just what happens to the (relatively) good threads. On the really lame ones, you've also got people insisting everything relates to a giant invisible planet hurtling towards us through outer space, a bunch of shapeshifters trying to rule the world, and a bunch of emo kids who think they're "indigo children" or whatever they're calling themselves today. Oh, and 2012. Let's not forget that every single conceivable topic you could ever possibly discuss is somehow directly tied to 2012. Because, you know, 2000 already came and went.

It's enough to make me completely understand why that WolfofWar guy has half the site on his foes list and not a single friend.


Excellent points
thats exactly how I feel man, exactly



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 03:04 AM
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Is this a Conspiracy site or a Religious debate Site?

Well, let's see how this question stacks up with ATS guidelines & policies. I must admit that I don't posses any real authority here, nor can I cite any specific ATS policies to confirm my own opinion on this question.

Under Mysterious Subjects is a topic for conspiracies in religions & another topic that covers the specific subject of Creationism. There's also a topic for General Conspiracies, however here on the ATS boards, the conspiracy within the topic at hand must be evident in the discussion. Debate/discussion on religious doctrines would belong better over at Below Top Secret.

If there's a Mod on this thread who can clarify better than I just did, please feel free to speak up.


[edit on 1-6-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 03:27 AM
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Usually the only thing that bugs me is when someone is trying to force a religion on another, but in a thread I was reading earlier, religion came out of nowhere. I won't say what thread it was or who said it, but the thread was nowhere near the subject.

It only lasted a few posts, but someone came in and said something along the line of: "In my opinion (and I'm Christian)..." up until that post, religion wasn't mentioned at all in the thread. I didn't say anything, but I almost did because it was so obvious they were throwing that at there just to "ruffle some feathers" and that's why I almost said something, but I didn't because I didn't want to add anything to what was already being said and like I said before, the subject only lasted a few posts anyway and it stopped.

I got over it pretty quick, but I started thinking about how often that actually happens and I now understand why it annoys so many people on here when it happens.



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 05:46 AM
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If you think it through, there is a very simple reason why someone who is overtly religious, say evangelical, would want to subvert the very reason for existence of a place like ATS.

Having a place like ATS where everything is questioned, nothing is taken for granted, is fundamentally threatening to religious belief.

I can understand why they would want to destroy ATS, and failing that, to turn it into something ...different.

Now how's that for a conspiracy?



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 05:58 AM
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Originally posted by vuoto
If you think it through, there is a very simple reason why someone who is overtly religious, say evangelical, would want to subvert the very reason for existence of a place like ATS.

Having a place like ATS where everything is questioned, nothing is taken for granted, is fundamentally threatening to religious belief.

I can understand why they would want to destroy ATS, and failing that, to turn it into something ...different.

Now how's that for a conspiracy?


im sorry but i highly doubt that anyone would take the time to register on this site just to destroy it.

I'd be more worried about the disinfo government agents/tools . . .

anyway . . . I don't understand why everyone is so hostile towards the evolution/creation threads . . . they're my favorites to discuss/read . . . I've learned a lot from them and they're always interesting.

I'd rather read about a really cool "missing link" like the "frogamander" than browse through pages and pages of people picking out rock formations on mars . . .


[edit on 6/1/2008 by JPhish]



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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It doesn't matter what it is though does it? The chuckleheads come and destroy it. Discussion on black holes? "Satan not gravity!" Aliens? "Satan trying to decieve you!" New fossil discovered. "AAA!!!" Falls on the floor foaming at the mouth screaming out verses from a book made by a goat herder married to his 9yo cousin.

Edit

I also can't stand it when they say "Belief in Gravity/Relativity/Evolution/ Old Earth/DNA is a religion!" Uh no, science is based in facts, evidence, and reality. Relgion is based in a book made by a goat herder married to his 9yo cousin.

[edit on 1-6-2008 by HHH Is King]



posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 09:21 AM
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Science is a study and not an exact. Just as doctors and lawyers practice so do scientists. Example: How old is the earth? Science says millions of years. Christian religion says only thousands of years. Can science and religion get along? Sure, if there is proof of a instant earth creation..and there is!
www.halos.com...

Some would be suprised how many scientists agree on creation. Everything we know about the universe and life is it is ike a fine watch. If any part of that watch is missing it wouldn't work. Distance of moon to earth and sun has to be exact or we are all dead. Atmosphere has to be exact or we all die. Religion and science can agree and they do. Science is catching up with the belief of a creator. Life streams from above boiling temps in our oceans. Life is booming miles above the earth. Yet we have not found a sign of life anywhere else. Are we just lucky or is there a purpose for life on earth?
A scientist named Peter Stoner had his college class do a paper on the prophecies of the bible and the odds of probability of them coming true. It is astounding what he and his class discovered.
www.geocities.com...
To be able to understand how God and science agree you need to understand both. Spouting no god is like saying no oxygen. Both are invisible but you are alive and breathing so there must be oxygen. How did an accident make all the food and air on our planet to keep us alive evolving at the same time at just the right time? We see man's creation everywhere and no-one has a problem seeing a TV knowing it just didn't self create. Someone put it together but we didn't see it happen. Man is much more complicated than a TV. Yet are we to believe that man is an accident that created the TV?
Hubris: Unrealistically high self-esteem; self-esteem exceeds authentic stature. You appraise your stature to be unrealistically high and reject evidence-based comparisons to authentic stature. It is a failure to recognize your own defects. Synonyms include arrogance, conceit, egotism, narcissism, and vanity. It can be caused by your first-person viewpoint.




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