It's About Time People Realize We're Alone. BTW, This is Not Another Typical Atheist Thread, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 2 times

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 04:35 AM by Yosimitie Sam

Hah ha I want to see this debate... bert i think u r you being a little silly. he can post anywhares he wants dude. BTW evryone that has posted disagrees and its not about being a christian I am agnoistic but i aint no communist dude. You should go to infowars.com and listen to alex jones you must be ayoung kid or something.

Sam has left the building

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 04:36 AM by pieman

i can see your point of view bert, no doubt about it, don't wait around for god to fix the world, get out there and do it yourself, it's not a bad philosophy. but that doesn't particularly deminish my belief in god. i'm not at all sure it should!

the US is having a problem at the moment with evangelical christians, but i don't believe that is a side effect from the sickness of religion, i believe it is more a side effect of a sick society, and i don't think the problem will confine itself to the states. i guess thats a different thread, i only mention it here because i wish to point out that other religions don't uasually wait around for devine intervention. evangelicals may shout the loudest at the moment, but that doesn't make them the only religion nor does it mean they speak for god. (

man, i'm gonna get in trouble for saying that, they're gonna go nuts)

although, the world is a big place, people feel fear at trying to change it all on their own, i uasually find that believers ask god for the strength and support they require to effect change. they uasually gain the strength to do more than they would otherwise have done. weather its actually god that gave them help or its just their belief in god doesn't really matter, it's still a positive force for people.

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 04:41 AM by bigbert81

reply to post by Yosimitie Sam

I'm not saying he can't or shouldn't.

I simply asked as a favor so that we wouldn't be going back and forth like we have in the past and taking up this thread.

It was just a favor of which Whammy decided to not accommodate for whatever reason.

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 04:46 AM by bigbert81

reply to post by Yosimitie Sam

You should go to infowars.com and listen to alex jones you must be ayoung kid or something.

WTF is that from? Because I asked to not have the debate here?

And as far as the communist thing goes, I'd do some research before you decide to make a comment like that again. Whammy is wrong, so don't base your whole communist thing on this just yet.

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 04:52 AM by bigbert81

reply to post by pieman

I don't think believing in God is bad at all. I just think we would progress further as a society if we acted more like we were alone.

Thanks for the post.

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 04:54 AM by DickieDee

I do concur Mr. Bert starred and flagged.

The homo-sapien population is entirely too stupid and ignorant to make their own decisions. "Religion is the opiate of the people" the most brilliant statements of Karl Marx. Religion is against our scientific and political objectives as the smarter and superior members of society. As Darwin taught so long ago, we must rise to the challenge to evolve our species. Oh glorious humanity hath risen from the slime and I am rather proud of it. To that end, the sooner we can discredit religion the sooner we can achieve a peaceful world.

And of course it will be a one world system, there can be no doubt, it is the logical and reasonable thing. The New World Order is only feared by uneducated stupid sheep. Science will be in charge. I indubitably do like the way you think Mr Bert.

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 04:57 AM by Equinox99

reply to post by bigbert81

I see in a way what you are saying. But that would mean I stop my believe in God, and it would personally bug me. I understand where you are coming from but how will that help around the world?

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 08:11 AM by Reverend SamuelTophatJack

atheist communist manifesto material. saw it back in Nam. Take it back to Cuba there son. castro loves it.This also is not about you sleeping with your gay lover before marriage or whatever reason you choose to ignore God for. You now God is yes you do- you do- you just loove your sins more.beg forgiveness dont go commie because you like sex.

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 09:03 AM by 1-Cent

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by pieman

I don't think believing in God is bad at all. I just think we would progress further as a society if we acted more like we were alone.

Thanks for the post.

I agree entirely! Just on the basis of the lives it would save in numerous pointless and bloody "holy" wars that continually go on today alone, is enough for me.
We can solve the senseless killing in the name of God on our own, without God, in fact I believe this is the only way it will ever be solved.

Theres also all these people who have been taught from birth that science is evil, if they could be freed from that prison of the mind, think of all the potential it could unlock, the world could be missing some of it's greatest minds and we'd never know it, sadly.

Theres a huge segment of the population that will never contribute anything useful to the progression of earth sciences, theoretical physics, genetic research, ancient history, etc, etc, etc, etc. all these emerging fields directly conflict with creationism, you can't have it both ways folks.

We'd stop our fixation on all these now totally irrelevant side issues of society. Things like gay marriage, how many 1000s of hours has that crap taken up in the court system? On the news? City counsel? How much money has been foolishly wasted on this childish, irrational, often hateful subject when we could be focusing on more profound issues?
Or abortion, how much money pissed away? How much time lost? How many doctors murdered in cold blood?

The day the shackles of our superstitious beginnings finally rust through and fall off, a new renaissance will truly be upon us.

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 02:26 PM by bigbert81

reply to post by Equinox99

Hey Equinox,

I am in no way saying you should stop your beliefs in God, but to just act as though we are alone.

And as far as your question goes, I cannot answer that fully just yet as I will be debating much of this in the near future. But please do trust me that I do have reasons.

Here, however, is something that I thought explains my pov pretty well:

First, humanists believe that it is better for a human to be free of illusions, and belief in god and the supernatural is an illusion. Undoubtedly, as John states, theistic and supernaturalistic religions offer their believers emotional supports that enable them to survive and live happily in the world, but similar supports can be found in humanism:

A. Afraid of death? Either believe in an afterlife and immortal soul or live your present life realistically and achieve immortality by the memories and records of your efforts to improve the world for others. One can be happy or unhappy in either situation, but only the latter is authentic and consistent with nature and reality as we know them.

B. Finding yourself alive, how does one then live? Theistic religions provide the answer of believing in God and following the commandments, while humanism says that humans are responsible for creating their own morals as well as following them. Either can result in both ethical and unethical behavior, but only the latter is realistic, subject to rational analysis, and actually represents the true state of affairs (who can deny that religionists actually create and follow their own moral codes regardless of what they claim to believe!).

C. What is the meaning of life? Most religions are happy to provide a simple, superficial, semi-palatable answer, e.g. serve God on Earth and then in heaven by achieving salvation through some easy or difficult doctrine, while humanists say the meaning of life is found in an individual's relationships with other humans. Both have undoubtedly given meaning to humans, but only the latter can be examined rationally, can be accomplished without guilt, and actually promotes better conduct among humans.

Second, while religions have certainly resulted in some good in the world, their misogyny, patriarchy, bigotry, authoritarianism, propagation of nonsense, ignorance, and credulity, tolerance of slavery and crimes against humanity, human over-population, environmental destruction, maintaining the status quo (I must be thinking of Christianity), etc., far outweigh any of that good. Contrast that with humanism, which has always promoted the most noble qualities of humanity: reason, empiricism, tolerance, fellowship, compassion, democracy, skepticism, etc. Science is a product of the empirical, rational, and skeptical humanist impulse, and has given humanity unparalleled advances in food, energy, communication, transportation, medicine, etc. Contrast just the fruits of science with all that religion has given us--the comparison is telling.

[edit on 5/31/2008 by bigbert81]

reply posted on 31-5-2008 @ 10:50 PM by the raytownian

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by pieman

I don't think believing in God is bad at all. I just think we would progress further as a society if we acted more like we were alone.

Thanks for the post.

Isn't this what Deism is about? People are getting so miffed about it, and maybe I have no clue (I didn't pay attention in school ever...) But many of the founding fathers were Deists as a matter of fact...

From my understanding, it's a belief in a creator, but not in a creator that watches over us, or is is meant to govern our actions. He/she/it/them (If you believe) created us, and then left us on our own... We are not necessarily meant to be living up to said said creator's... "standards"...

So I can completely agree with the sentiment you express... If one held Deistic beliefs, they could still argue for the "endowment of inalienable rights", but there's really no need for any of the other garbage that comes with being a religious zealot...........

And societies have existed long before "this religion" or "that religion" (perhaps not *quite* as peacefully)... but then again, to this day, we use religions as an excuse for war and terrorism...

I am not a fu**ing Communist, no, sorry. I am an atheist (and perhaps a hopeless idealist) who believes in the concept of peaceful anarchy... well, I would, if people ever made any effort at all to coexist without being forced to... I don't so much BELIEVE in Anarchy+Peace as hope for it... I do believe in progress through denying religion's use as a crutch, and excuse for stagnation, stupidity, and violence...

That's my two cents.

[edit on 31-5-2008 by the raytownian]

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