Nobody is going to force Religion on Me

Google Video Link

Don't Tread on Me. That flag gives me Goosebumps! After all, the very meaning of the Iconic Flag forces the separation of Church and State!

And after watching this video. propaganda maybe. nevertheless I will never bow to the Koran.

Nobody is going to force the MUSLIM way of life on me. Please watch and listen.

Fixed link.





[edit on 30-5-2008 by whiteraven]

OK..looks like the video has been pulled.

You Tube pulled it and it looks like Google has pulled it.

Peace..not war...unless you try to force the Muslim religion on me.

OK...The Video seems to work again...I reattached it?!

[edit on 30-5-2008 by whiteraven]

I think that most people feel this way; however, denying my civil liberties and perpetuating endless wars is not the answer to the terrorists. The answer is to protect those liberties and protect ourselves--not to police the world.

My concern is that we do not swing too far to the "left" and place ourselves in harms way because we trust that the persons who may be attracted to this radical form will not act upon their belief.


Are we being squeezed by both sides?

I saw a need to place this on ATS simply to look at another point of view. The video places a point of view as extreme as those who have cut the heads off of our people such as Berg and Dan Pearl.

Dan Pearl was not an extremist. Nick Berg was trying to help. Others who were caught were just trying to make a buck.

I, for one, want to remember those persons as well as the many who are giving their lives as we speak.

I do not see a good way out of this war. If we pack our bags and go home are we not doing exactly the same thing we did after the USSR/Afghan conflict in the 1990's?

Or are we looking at this war the way LBJ and McNamara looked at Viet Nam? Now that would be heartbreaking. Even McNamara shed tears on camera when he saw the errors that had been made.

There is no doubt we are at the crossroads.


[edit on 31-5-2008 by whiteraven]

McNamara had a lot to cry about, and Vietnam was only part of it, IMO, but that's another thread (or another message board) entirely. You might say that I'm not a fan of R.S.M., if you have a real talent for understatement.

As for the war in Iraq, you're very correct. There's no "good" way out. There never is. George Orwell said it better than most. "War is evil, but it is often the lesser evil." We can debate until the day of Judgment whether or not we should have gone into Iraq, but the fact is that, having broken the place, we have an obligation to stabilize it. Right now, that means (like it or not) maintaining order.

As for Islam in general, I'll confess to mixed feelings. I don't "hate" Muslim people, in fact, I can think of some that I admire (Mr Ali, you truly are one of the "greatest"), and I know that all religions seem to have their extremists. That said, I have a hard time reconciling the idea of "The Religion of Peace" (as it's so often labeled by apologists) with what seems to be acceptable behavior among its flock. I'm also alarmed by the way that Europe and the US seem to fall all over themselves accommodating Islamic culture at the expense of existing social norms. Folks, it's one thing to be tolerant, it's another to let yourselves be run over. Accommodation and tolerance have to be two-way streets, or they become the worst sort of appeasement....but I'm starting another rant that's O.T.

reply to post by Brother Stormhammer

We seem to have an in common love for R.S.M... I often wonder how he looks at himself in the mirror!

Nuf said...I know that this conversation is going on in every household in North America, that is, the crossroads conversation. We are in a muddle as opposed to the Islamic world that has had a clear path cut for them via the present admin. Just like "Christianity" they too want to dominate the world come hell or high water boarding.

The Founding Fathers wanted a free state. Free of over bearing religion be it in the form of Christianity or Islam. Free of the weight of "laws" that burden the common man in relation to the laws that favour the state. Free of the idea that an uneducated serf has no intrinsic value save that of reproduction and labour.

We have drifted and the moorings are no longer in sight. I do not see Obama or McCain bringing us any closer.

I had a conversation with the assistant professor at the U of R concerning this. For the record he is Muslim, from Somalia and he was convinced that the West will be at the hands of Islamic leaders in a decade! I left the U of R stunned.

He was very convincing.

Originally posted by whiteraven...I had a conversation with the assistant professor at the U of R concerning this. For the record he is Muslim, from Somalia and he was convinced that the West will be at the hands of Islamic leaders in a decade! I left the U of R stunned.

He was very convincing.

Being convincing is not the same as being correct. History is full of people who could speak convincingly, yet whose words and predictions never came to fruition.

[edit on 5/31/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

True...yet he has influence over many students whom have a distaste for the Christian religion and yet have an need to believe in God. Islam offers a monotheistic worldview that does not clash with many Western ideas of God.

The Koran speaks of the works of Abraham as well as some of the works of Christ. It can and has found its way into Western culture.

When I was growing up I had never personaly set eyes on a Muslim. Now I have worked with them in every city I have lived in.

The Islamic way of life is finding roots in North America. It is prevailing in South America as well as Central America.

Are we at the crossroads of Western Christianity?

Once very small, the Muslim population of the US has increased greatly in the last one hundred years, with much of the growth driven by immigration. Muslim immigration to the U.S. is rising. In 2005, more people from Islamic countries became legal permanent United States residents — nearly 96,000 — than in any year in the previous two decades.[2][3] In fiscal year 2006 just 202 refugees from Iraq were allowed to resettle in the United States.[4][5]

Many persons are doing time in American Prisons and have given their lives to Islam. Are we sitting on a time bomb?


(just a note...My way of life would come to an end under Muslim Rule...I would probably be beheaded as I try to follow princilples laid down via Ancient North American customs)

[edit on 1-6-2008 by whiteraven]

I'm going to assume that the topic for this thread, "Nobody is going to force Religion on Me", means that it is concerning all religions. Yet so far the focus has been on the extremist version of Islam. While Christianity is supposed to be a religion of loving each other as brothers and sisters, there are those who would like to see the end of Islam. This Rod Parsley guy, pastor of a huge church and author of many books, as well as an endorser of John McCain, said so himself. You can watch it here: www.youtube.com...

If I was a Muslim and I saw Mr. Parsley saying those things about my beliefs, I would be pissed!

One thing to keep in mind when examining the way a religion works is that perspective is crucial. If you were a Muslim extremist, you'd probably see things much differently. Far too many Muslims have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, and who knows where else (black ops, undercover work, etc.) as a result of the war in the middle east. Would you be content to simply watch your fellow Arabic people, fellow Islamic believers, die by the hand of the armies and governments who are primarily Christian? To the Muslim in Iraq I doubt that Christianity is a very friendly looking religion these days. And I imagine that the Islamic population there is probably thinking, "Nobody is going to force Christianity on me!"

All that said, I completely agree about religion. I refuse to have any belief system forced upon me. Unfortunately, for far too many people, that will never be the case. Those that don't have it forced upon them will grow up in an environment that teaches them what to believe as though it is the only option available. Another perfect example of that is racism. Just about every racist I know was raised by racist parents. Only after some seriously difficult realization and breaking of old ways do people like that finally free themselves of the traditions they grew up with.

I agree. I have been rebuffed many times by Christians because of my views which I back up with chapter and verse. (although I do not believe that our version of Christianity is the way)

I read the Bible daily...I have read the Koran...I have read after those who refute the Bible as well as Athiest books and info....and so on....

I have had the best debates with athiests. Most of whom I have dealt with are at least open to logic.

Christians and Muslims are too scared they may be wrong, to think. ( Not all, but many)

With that in mind, guys like Parsley and people unable to think for themselves it is a wonder that we have not blown the world up. Our foolishness forces us to fight. "war is evil, but it may be the lesser of evils" says the author Huxley. I believe the founding fathers felt the same before going to war to fight for separation of church and state.

PS
Rod Parsley is a right wing nut in my humble opinion.

[edit on 1-6-2008 by whiteraven]

[edit on 1-6-2008 by whiteraven]

This is about all religion and the Islam video was just an example, right?

No ones going to convert me either but I think the worst way to go about coming to that conclusion is being ignorant of everyone else's point of view in order to protect yours (hypothetically).

I'm atheist, I've read the Christian Bible cover to cover twice, the new Intl. version and the NKJ version. I've read a lot into Buddhisms and taoism too, spirituality is interesting and so are ancient belief systems like Sumer, Babylon , Egyptian and Mayan. I've been an atheist from birth and none of this additional reading has changed my view nor has anyone in my life that follows another teaching.

So whats the real issue here? Hmm.. When would we have to worry about being converted by force? Well someone would have to invade or our political system would need to be infiltrated and influenced over time (more likely).

Would I be worried if I lived in Europe? Probably getting there. I suspect living in London as either an atheist, Christian or Jew would be like living in America as an atheist except all the Christians openly hate you for your beliefs, have marches denouncing your values and run you out of certain parts of the city. Hard to imagine...

Would I stay and aggressively move to take back my freedom of thought without persecution or go somewhere I'm surrounded by those of similar belief... something to think about.

So does that happen to you a lot? You know, Muslims forcing you to convert? If so, where do you live, because it's never happened to me, and I'd like to avoid the places where it is happening.

hmmmmmmmmmm
yes you are right when you say that no one can/should force a muslim
religion onto you.......you are correct..... very correct.

BUT

what about some forcing...um....say....a Christian religion on to someone.

is that ok? no of course not....

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

so what is the root that is causing this heated debate?

hmmmmmmmmmmm

OH,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,./.. ITS RELIGION... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


RELIGION IS THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE FORCE ON EARTH... period...

drop it and see what true brotherhood and love really is.

Koran or the Bible... religious zealots come in all denominations. For me the wall between church and state can never be high enough or wide enough.

Originally posted by Straight Razor
Koran or the Bible... religious zealots come in all denominations. For me the wall between church and state can never be high enough or wide enough.

How about

No WALLS

and

NO CHURCHES

just people

[edit on 2-6-2008 by Maya432]

reply to post by Rasobasi420


While i agree that in western society the pressures on the public to convert to islam is barely unnoticable, it is also true - as you said - there are places in the world where the pressures on the public to convert to islam is absolute.

I mean, let's face it; There are people out there who want war, and are prepared to tread over the broken bones of their fellow brethren in order to acheive it.

And of course, while there are people willing to die for what they believe is the truth, no wall and no weapon will stop them from acheiving their goal, be it their death or their salvation.

This is a problem that has sat in humanity's collective history for as long as there has been a written word, and perhaps longer.

In the end i am forced to consider the possibility of an enforced mind-control that has been in effect for thousands and thousands of years, one that is as menacing as it is idealistic.

There is a line, for those who would wish to see it;

The line falls between those who would wish to help people, and those who would wish to kill people.

Both groups use religion as a banner to rally behind, but i feel it has to be said that even if they did not have that banner, they would merely create a new one, be it to help or to hurt others.

Perhaps a method of addressing this would be to reveal the truth, that a 'schism' has appeared in the public eye which has gone without declaration - the schism, of course, is between those who would spread their religion through kind words and noble deeds, and those who would spread their religion through terror and conquest.

Once this schism has been made apparent to the world public, perhaps we may see some violent change in the way things are done - the peaceful would flock to the peaceful, the violent to the violent.

Of course, the precepts of those schisms would be obvious - one works towards peace, and one works towards war.

This is true of all religions, not just islam.

Even the Buddhists have exhibited this particular brand of schism, when you look at those in tibet who rioted against the Chinese it becomes horribly apparent that this is the truth.

This is similar to the way people refuse to accept that society is experiencing a snow-ball effect as it slides down the slope of devolution - people refuse to accept that there are individuals who believe in the same things they do, and yet choose to attack others for not believing in it.

What was that quote?

Ah yes; Evil Conquers where Good people Fail to Act.

In this case, the "Good" people are failing to act because they do not wish for their fellow believers to be hurt.

The bottom line in the USA is that you can chose to be a Christian or an Athiest or an Muslim etc.

There is still persecution if you should chose to be a Athiest in the US.

There is still persecution if you chose to be a Muslim.

There is still persection if you chose to be a Mormon...etc.

The need is to discuss and accept others and their point of view.

Don't tread on me still should be the motto if someone is forcing their point of view. Discussing the point of view should be encouraged.

It seems we are at war because we refuse to engage in active acceptance of each others views.