Originally posted by LostNemesis
mybigunit, do describe what it means to be Conservative.

RockPuck, I thought voting was a Freedom. A Right. Why make it so difficult for an average person to get a vote in for who they want? Especially if no Conspiracy is involved, whatsoever? I understand what you are saying... But I don't think it is right.

Sure Ill be glad to my friend. First off there is the base conservative or conserve which is hold traditions or lack of change. Thats where the notion of traditionalists come into play. General policies of a "conservative" are legislative morality, small government, fiscal responsible budgets, conservative foreign policies like no nation building/policing the world. They prefer to lay low and let things ride.

Well thats what a conservative USED to mean. The new definition on how the people we label as "conservatives" act is as follows,

Big government, Big spending, Big Debt, police the world and nation building, and very liberal when it comes to traditional constitutional liberties for the new conservatives or the "neo cons" which neo=new have completely thrown out the window. McCain or Bush or anyone that ran the conservative ticket is not a conservative they are neocons or new conservatives. Im sorry but I like the idea of being a libertarian better. Vote Ron Paul.

So who specifically is shaping Obama's policies?

Are the people Obama is catering to any better than those that McCain might cater to? Or are they just different?

It strikes me that what this election boils down to is WHICH group of people will benefit disproportionately, not whether or not the U.S. will be better off as a whole.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by jamie83]

Originally posted by Rockpuck


So Obama want's to de-militarize America? Clinton did it, I would imagine he could. Obama would probably end up being a lame duck from the start.

No, Clinton might have cut back on some things, but BO SERIOUSLY proposed eliminating the entire U.S. nuclear deterrent. Plus he vowed to not put any weapons in space. Anti-missile satellite technology is the cutting edge of defense weaponry. How does it serve he U.S. to NOT defend itself from missile attacks?

Originally posted by bigbert81
Proof positive that voters are some uneducated, dumbed down folks who don't do enough research at all. Or, they're letting their intolerance for another candidate blind them.

Speaking from experience, aren't ya' berti?

The FACT is that both McCain and Obama stink at economics.
Obama is worse, but not by much.
His tax increases will kill the economy.
His destruction of space and military programs will cripple us.

BTW - You are quoting Huffington, NY Times and Think Progress????
Oh .. like they don't have an agenda!!

Find some non-left wing - moderate - economic folks and your
discussion would have more weight.

In the end - McCain isn't great with economics. But Obama's economics stink. Vote for Ron Paul and avoid having to vote for someone who stinks.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

In the end - McCain isn't great with economics. But Obama's economics stink. Vote for Ron Paul and avoid having to vote for someone who stinks.

Yeah I think that sums it up vote Ron Paul. Keep in mind when you vote for the lesser of 2 evils you are still voting for evil.

I do disagree though I think McCain would be more horrendous when it comes to the economy. Tax increases as much as they suck would strengthen the dollar but we wouldnt have to increase taxes if it wasnt for all the government spending. Thank the republicans.

Originally posted by LostNemesis
Why in the world are Conservative voters not PISSED at this insult to their intelligence? (must be lack thereof if they are falling for it)

We are pissed, and any defense I proposed to support my intelligence level would be seen as an internet pissing contest, so I'll just say your little jab was uncalled for and out of line and leave it at that.

The problem is this, the Republican party is no longer controlled by real conservatives. The PTB within the party are liberals who sit slightly to the right of the current DNC, so they run as Republicans. They're basically fiscal and political leftists who hold social conservative viewpoints. Since the DNC has built it's entire platform on social liberalism, they have been forced to look outside their natural party and have hijacked the party I once considered myself part of. Rudy, McCain, Romney, (financially speaking) Huckabee... all liberal mindsets, all unsuited to represent the party in the manner Goldwater envisioned it. Reagan was the go between... the man who held the core beliefs while also attempting to bring in the Christian right to beef up the party and, unfortunately, that has opened the door for this current generation of GOP elite to throw away the core values of the party as long as they claim to embrace the moral high ground. Hell, even under those guidelines Rudy & McCain are fish out of water, actually.

Ron Paul, while I appreciate the man, has no chance of winning. Real conservatives look at Barack Obama and see a socialist who stands for every single thing we despise about the current democratic party. Personally, I don't believe our sovreignty or our history can withstand an Obama presidency. Things may be tough currently, but if the great appeaser and wealth redistributor gets elected, watch as the wheels fall off the bus and the engine explodes, leaving everyone on board mortally injured. What other options are there?

I'm no huge fan of John McCain, but when I compare him side by side with Obama, I see a lot of "mights" and "coulds" over his head vs alot of "wills" and "definitelies" over Obama. For example, my wallet might suffer under McCain, but my wallet will definitely suffer under Obama. I could honestly care less about international opinion, international well being, or international good will at this point. I'm in this thing for 4 people, my 2 kids, my wife, and myself and everyone else can go screw for all I care. I look at Obama and don't see anything even resembling my best interests or my country's best interests surrounding his potential presidency... what I do see is a socialist and globalist agenda in which I lose money from my pocket, only to watch it being given to all the have nots around the world. Throw in the fact that the man is a major enemy of gun owners, couldn't care less about the price of gas as long as the urbans have cheap public transit, and has major patriotism and loyalty questions as well as his close association with race mongers like his good reverend Wright, and it's fairly easy to see that we conservatives are pinned against a wall here and being forced to pick between the lesser of evils.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6



Ron Paul, while I appreciate the man, has no chance of winning. Real conservatives look at Barack Obama and see a socialist who stands for every single thing we despise about the current democratic party. Personally, I don't believe our sovreignty or our history can withstand an Obama presidency. Things may be tough currently, but if the great appeaser and wealth redistributor gets elected, watch as the wheels fall off the bus and the engine explodes, leaving everyone on board mortally injured. What other options are there?

Ron Paul would have a chance of winning if every person out there who said Id vote for him if he chance of winning actually voted for the guy. The thing about Obama is he would raise taxes there is no secret there. But let me ask you a question why does he have to raise taxes? Ill ask that of you first. Second who says there isnt wealth distribution going on now just the money going from the poor to the rich? Third question what does it mean to appease?

I'm no huge fan of John McCain, but when I compare him side by side with Obama, I see a lot of "mights" and "coulds" over his head vs alot of "wills" and "definitelies" over Obama. For example, my wallet might suffer under McCain, but my wallet will definitely suffer under Obama. I could honestly care less about international opinion, international well being, or international good will at this point. I'm in this thing for 4 people, my 2 kids, my wife, and myself and everyone else can go screw for all I care. I look at Obama and don't see anything even resembling my best interests or my country's best interests surrounding his potential presidency... what I do see is a socialist and globalist agenda in which I lose money from my pocket, only to watch it being given to all the have nots around the world. Throw in the fact that the man is a major enemy of gun owners, couldn't care less about the price of gas as long as the urbans have cheap public transit, and has major patriotism and loyalty questions as well as his close association with race mongers like his good reverend Wright, and it's fairly easy to see that we conservatives are pinned against a wall here and being forced to pick between the lesser of evils.

As far as the globalists and giving all our money to the nots around the world that is going on right now and McCain is a big part of this. What do you think will really change if he is elected? I hear you keep saying socialist globalist agendas but this agenda has been going on under the republicans. Ill ask you what I asked vor and dont steal my answer from my post but what does it mean to be conservative? Because when you answer it you find that Obama is actually much more conservative than McCain sad fact as it is but its true.

Vote Ron Paul!!!!

Originally posted by bigbert81I'm saying that it's very odd and funny that despite McCain himself admitting he doesn't know economics, and the whole gas tax thing, that people still trust him more than Obama.

Huh, you really think this whole gas tax thing would've scored some points for Obama, but it didn't.

And like I've been saying, I wish Ron Paul could win. But he won't and it would be a wasted vote.

Actually, the gas tax thing did score some points for Obama with me. The McCain/Clinton summer tax relief plan was about the most idiotic idea I've ever heard. The price is being set by demand. Removing the tax wouldn't lower the price -it would only put more profit in the pockets of the oil companies.

McCain is the only politician that's ever angered me enough to call his office.

Want to torpedo McCain? Find the sound bite from the Sean Hannity show where he said something like, "Mexicans don't take jobs Americans WON'T do, they take the jobs that Americans CAN'T do. Americans aren't tough enough to pick avacados all day in the hot sun."

That was pretty close to what McCain said.

The only reason I trust McCain more than Obama on the economy is because McCain *might* err on the side of Reagan-like conservatism, whereas Obanma is going to err on the side of intellectual, Marxist-like theories he's learned from his intelligentsia buds.

If Obama's theories don't worked, the U.S. economy and military is TOTALLY FUBAR. If McCain gets in, at least the Dems in Congress might keep him from totally screwing up EVERYTHING.

I'd take Ron Paul in a heartbeat.