Not Wanting To See The Truth

Shhh! If you listen closely, you can hear Thomas Jefferson rolling over in his grave!)

Thats the truth

Instead of propaganda filled speeches on t.v. made by current politicians trying to foreward their own personal carrer...we need more quotes and wisdom of REAL americans like Ben Franklin and T. Jefferson!!!

jmilici? You are obviously an orthodox Jew?



regards
seekerof

I guess as long as we are sending 10's of Billions of US tax dollar$ to support certain activities ... we're involved bigtime. If Americans Knew

Jmilici, I think you're doing the right things and just need to be patient. Israel does have problems, though.

There is some evidence that the "6 million" killed in WW2 was rather long-lived propaganda.

I just hope we can keep talking about these issues without others trying so hard to silence criticism.

McGotti,

Despite their faults, the people who founded our Govt. are a fountain of knowledge when it comes to philosphy and goverment. I am surprised that today's politicians haven't banned their writings! (they might be considered too threatening to the constitution and national security!) LOL!

Anyway, US out of Middle East.
Jefferson and Franklin would have instant coronaries if they saw what was going on.......

[Edited on 2-3-2004 by Facefirst]

RogueOne...with such an accusation:
"There is some evidence that the "6 million" killed in WW2 was rather long-lived propaganda."

First off, care to debunk all those Jews that survived those German death camps? The German documentations, other documentations, documenteries that were done, photgraphs, records, etc., etc.?

Care to debunk this also and this gentleman's connection to the such atrocities?
www.palestinefacts.org...



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 2-3-2004 by Seekerof]

Thanks for the link Seekerof, I will read with interest.
[we have continued this in U2U's for now]

But I can mention that the "6-million" figure came from a Soviet Minister of Propaganda (Ilya Ehrenburg) weeks prior to the liberation of Auschwitz concentration camp. Most unbiased studies put the current numbers between 300k and 500k, if I recall correctly.

Do you know how many Germans were killed in our WW2 prison camps after the war ended? Millions.

I'll let unbiased experts do the debunking; "The German authorities kept astonishingly detailed records of every aspect of camp affairs. Remarkably, though, there is no contemporary documentary evidence of homicidal gassings or of a policy of mass extermination in the camps. Not a single contemporary German document mentions or even refers to killings of Jews in gas chambers." Read the rest.

The Jews aren't a "race", they are a culture and Judaism is their religion. Just like Christians are a culture and Christianity is their religion. Muslims are a culture and Islam is their religion. And on and on. For God's sake, when will people stop thinking that everybody who is "different' per say is another "race"? There are only three race's on this planet we call Earth. They are as follows: Mongoloids, Negroids, and Caucasoids. What signifies a "race"? Skeletal structure, physical features, etc... NOT skin tone, NOT religion, NOT geographical location (anymore), NOT country, etcetera, etcetera. Each of the three "races" come in every hue imaginable. Anyone other than those three "races" are a mixture of either two or three. Negroids are what most people would call the "black" "race", but the fact is, they also come in a "white" flavor too. Many Asian Indians are what you would call the "black" "race" (or asian "race", or indian "race", or whatever) but they are really just the "black" versions of what you would call the "white" race, which are Caucasoids. Asian Indians are made up of every "race", as is every country, but people think of them as one "race" - they should be thinking of them as just one "culture." So the next time someone says you're being "racist," the fact of the matter they could very well be of the same "race" and they should be saying you are "prejudice" - because they might be of a different culture then you. What signifies a culture? Location, location, and location. How you were raised, where you were raised, what religion you might have been brought up in, your customs, etc...
Because there are three races it makes sense that they all built themselves up in different locations of the world, seperately. But even as they spread out, the underlying skeletal structure and other external physical features remained the same (almost no varition, hence I can say the "same") - minimal changes of course occured inside, depending on location.
What caused these variations in the same race, or mixed? Adapted traits for the location they live in, over generations - mostly internal features change to meet the "requirements" of their place of residence. Look at the people of Nepal, they have some of the largest lungs in the world because of the height they live at. They need large lungs to take in as much oxygen as possible in the thin air at that altitude. I say "some of the largest" because they aren't the only culture to have adapted to that height for living. They are mostly of the Mongoloid "race". Skin hues are also an adaptation of the place we live in, and they change all the time, generation to generation. Different cultures have different adaptations but they still come from one, two, or all three of the basic "races". Or maybe they truly came from one source, spread out, and for thousands, maybe tens of thousands of years, didn't come into contact with each other - I still think the three distinct "races" were created for the distinct regions of where they began, and over time they spread out to create distinct cultures (still the same "race" though) and finally intertwined to create many interesting new faces and new cultures (now mixed "races", and some still "pure" non-mixed per say). Still, the three "races" I speak of are indeed fact and this subject is VERY hard for most people to understand.

In my opinion though I think we should just rid ourselves of the word "race" altogether. People act as if a different race is like a different species. We are all the human species, and we all bleed red - think about it Colonel when you go on your "black" this and that rampages. None of it really matters in the long run - you could be a Caucasoid or Mongoloid for all you know and are just the "black" version of them - not a Negroid. Or you could be a mixture of two or all three "races", most people are - the majority of people on this planet are not from a "pure" single "race" anymore, of the basic three. You can still distinguish what race makes up the majority of a person though, it still doesn't mean they are "pure" though.

I'll probably do a little editing of this post later, to make it a little more cohesive.

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
What gets me is anyone who professes to believe that the Jews actually killed Jesus. I mean, tens of thousands of crucifixions carried out by the Romans, and all of a sudden this ONE really significant one gets blamed on the JEWS?

Sounds like a conspiracy to me...

DeltaChaos

THATS what im saying! thousands of crucifixions happened every year. if jesus would have been stoned to death, would soting be looked at as some huge sacrifice? probably, but then again, we probably wouldnt learn about any of the other stonings occuring through history, we'd be learning about the crucifixion.

the issue in palestine is a horribly biased and shifty one. i wrote a paper about it i will try to post once i get home.

jmilici? You are obviously an orthodox Jew?

No, I am actually just an un-regular person living in a society that enjoy's being herded. Living in a world where hapiness comes from a peice of paper with faces & numbers on it.
I am 29, love pink floyd, smoke an occasional dubie(no I don't support terrorism), musician, audio engineer. Oh yeah, and I absolutly love nature.
I would also like to say I am very pleased how this discussion is going. This is my first time in a forum & wasn't quite sure what to expect. I just wish I had more time to keep up with the discussion.
I do agree about the race issue. I myself fall victome sometimes in including jewish when somebody asks me what race I am. I try though to think of it as human race. Which is why it hurts me when a fellow human cannot see the misery & suffering of a people becouse of what they learned in school or are told they are the enemy. Sometime when I am down I force myself (I say force becouse no body wants to see another human like this) to look at images from the Iraqi/Palastinian side of the war. I do this because most people do not want to see this. I do this to learn a lesson. I do this so those peoples deaths were not in vain. I do this to remind my self that this can & will happen to us. That there are people in this world suffering everyday. That no everyone can live like americans. I love my country, but as a whole we need to be humilated. Taught a lesson.

Sorry about all that, I need to cut this off, wonderful work calls. Thanks everybody.

Originally posted by SimpleTruth

Originally posted by Colonel
The real Jews are those who can trace their lineage to the 12 tribes of Israel and those members are black.

Colonel, please, what is your fixation on the color of this person or that group of people? You are focusing on something that doesn't matter. They could have been purple for all I care! So they were black?! Fine! So what? Please focus on the more relevant aspects of these topics you involve yourself in.

WHY ARE YOU ALL PICKING ON COLONEL FOR?

Seriously!
Dont you know ur history?
YOu poeple dont know ur Correct history.
The true history.
The real jews shouldn't be white!
Jewish people were a dark colour. Darker than White.
It happens to do with the khans. I got it written down somewhere.MY grandfather sent me a letter about the history of the jews.
I've typed it up once to proove to someone that the Jews in Israel now aren't the Jews of old.

If u ever find that letter, could you please post it? I would love to read it.

Well i just took a look at where i thought i put t away. It aint there. It might be lying around in my room somewhere. I'll see ifi can find it later but now it's 2:45am. Though i did find another thing my grandather sent me...Some pictures of the Awesome power of fertilizer compared to the high explosives that the IRA used. I think fertilizer definately wins in explosive punch.

DaRage: Thank you. Its good that enlightened members are actually coming up with proof as opposed to saying,"No, you wrong, Colonel, you damn racist! I'm telling!"

those would be interesting to see.

Originally posted by jmilici
No, I am actually just an un-regular person living in a society that enjoy's being herded. Living in a world where hapiness comes from a peice of paper with faces & numbers on it.
I am 29, love pink floyd, smoke an occasional dubie(no I don't support terrorism), musician, audio engineer. Oh yeah, and I absolutly love nature.

None of which has anything to do with being Orthodox or not. You don�t have to be Orthodox to go to Hebrew school, but one would think at least you would understand the question.

None of which has anything to do with being Orthodox or not. You don�t have to be Orthodox to go to Hebrew school, but one would think at least you would understand the question.

actually I do understand the question, I am not that dumb. The real question is, Do you understand the answer. To really understand my thinking you must first understand who I am.

I am aware that people would consider me orthadox but where I come from being orthadox does not just mean that you are jewish & not believe in a jewish state(zionist) it means that you are a jew who adhears to the true practice of Judaism. Observing the Sabbath, studing the Torah, going to synagogue, etc... I however am 29, have not stepped a foot in synagogue since my Bar Mitzva(13) & I drive & work on the Sabbath.

Originally posted by Facefirst
The Palestinians and the Israelis can have each other.
They are like little children throwing stones......"Did not....Did too!"

I just wish the US would pull out of it. For a secular Govt. such as the US to get involved in a religious debate over land is ridiculous.

[Edited on 2-3-2004 by Facefirst]

I really truly believe there is much more to it than a secular govt fighting in a religious debate. The Middle Eastern area, esp. Iraq is so much more important to those who rule. It all seems to go back to the Babylonians.
And, have you ever wondered how Israel managed to get nuclear weaponry when it did??

Originally posted by Colonel
The real Jews are those who can trace their lineage to the 12 tribes of Israel and those members are black.

Little overly proud of that color aren't you?...

Lol Darage....your grandpa sounds like a pretty cool dude..I wish my grandpa sent me cool stuff like what your talking about..the only thing I get from him is a birthday card with 20 bucks in it lol...Im gonna tell him I want history papers and information on fertilizar bombs for my birthday lol