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A question to skeptics..what evidence would you accept?

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posted on May, 30 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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everywhere I read on this forum,videos of this that and the other are debunked,cos "they might have been faked" It's like,cos the potential is there for it to have been faked,then it must have been. So I ask you,if video evidence is now not kosher,what is?

this was going to be a reply on this thread,which has been "debunked even before the video has been shown. www.abovetopsecret.com... but I didn't want to derail it.

Now,before we go on,I know that there are alot of videos out there that are proven fakes. But if you've a trained eye,it's quite easy to spot (or so I'm told)

so come on,what will you accept as evidence,outside of a personal experience?




posted on May, 30 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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speaking subjectively of course, I personally don't feel the need to either debunk or accept any of these videos as evidence. I do not possess the "trained eye" that would allow me to decipher whether something is real or fake and really don't care to. There is other evidence that proves to me things such as "aliens" and "ghosts" exist. I look at such things as videos and pics of such, but i am motivated by pure curiosity rather than a "need" for proof. In the case of 'aliens', i have never seen one and whether my mind has been subject to the energy they send out is debatable, but through intelligent reasoning of the accounts and the circumstances surrounding the accounts, i have concluded that they are indeed a reality. i know there are 'ghosts' (whether souls of 'men' or diabolical and/or angelic entities) because i have had first hand experiences as a child into my early 20's w/ them (although i feel no need to share the experience for the purpose of proving their existance).

there really is no way of "knowing" (except in obvious fakeries) the truth of certain events when viewed or heard through "artificial" devices. It is more a matter of whether you "know" or "don't know" from a subjective view rather than objective; IMO anyway.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by justamomma]



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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You notice none of the usual suspects have replied. Because I think in truth.. they will not accept ANY evidence. EVER.

Look at how long it takes to get any one of them to respond to such a simple question.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 12:56 PM
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It's because skepticism in it's current form is really pseudoskepticism.

They start with a priori about the underlying subject and everything has to fit what they already believe no matter how illogical it sounds.

I was just debating some skeptics on another forum about police using psychics. They said all police who work with psychics are mistaken and they are not critical thinkers.

So in order to support their belief about psychic ability these police officers that work with psychics are essentially stupid.

This is what belief systems can do. It's the same thing.

Logic doesn't matter, just the belief that these things can't or they don't exist.

They have turned skepticism into just another ism or belief system. When skepticism is supposed to help lead you to the truth, but today it's used to protect a pre-existing belief.

That's why every video and pic of a UFO must be fake before they even look at it and every eyewitness account must be false.

This is because they "believe" UFO's can't or don't exist and they us skepticism as a "crutch" to support what they already believe.

You can conclude the UFO's and the beings who fly them exist beyond any reasonable doubt based on the evidence.

There's more evidence that supports ufology than their is for black holes, virtual particles and more.

We have a faculty called "reason" and we can use it to weigh the evidence.

Calling every pic or video a fake, flare or weather balloon is coming from a pre-existing belief system not reason.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by NephraTari
Look at how long it takes to get any one of them to respond to such a simple question.


Oh, look at that, a believer making a leap of logic based on ignorance and scant evidence. You never see that...

At least in my case, some of us have day-jobs, so we can't spend every waking moment replying to forum threads.


Originally posted by NephraTari
You notice none of the usual suspects have replied. Because I think in truth.. they will not accept ANY evidence. EVER.


Just like believers we accept anything as evidence, and refuse to accept when it has been proven a hoax, debunked, etc, right? Now...see how ignorant that sounds when it's flipped?



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 02:51 PM
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You are the first to post here, and there were several that continued to post in other threads and simply refused to reply here.

I understand some people are not around all the time however there were several here that just did not respond.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Acidtastic
so come on,what will you accept as evidence,outside of a personal experience?


To answer the question: overwhelming and irrefutable.

But that answer may be too simplistic, because I don't know what that evidence is. It could be a subtle clue that, when put into the right context, completely changes one's outlook. Or it could be an event so dramatic there is no denying that. To paraphrase Justice Potter Stewart: "I'll know it when I see it."

And I can tell you, from personal experience, that personal experience is not proof enough.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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I'm actually a skeptical believer, but here's what you'd need:

1. A sample of material that can be conclusively shown to be beyond our current technology but obviously of intelligent design. (preferably one with materials not found/manufactured, or of better purity, than here on Earth).

OR

2. A biological sample that can be conclusively shown as not being native to Earth and/or containing materials not found on Earth.

What I'd really like to see:

An abductee whip out a cell phone camera and shoot some video of the inside of a craft...should be SOMEONE who can pull this off with everyone who keeps claiming abduction....



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

And I can tell you, from personal experience, that personal experience is not proof enough.


If you can't trust yourself.. I don't think there is anything you CAN trust.

that goes beyond skeptical in my book.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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The jury is still out for me but I can be swayed in the debate of the existence of extraterrestrial life. It's just that all I have ever seen are grainy photos of ambiguous objects, tons of hoaxes, and shaky video footage like the person holding the camera is jumping on a trampoline. If some solid video footage was presented and it was taken during a very large gathering of multiple witnesses, and the craft defied logical explanations like military aircraft, I could be swayed.

Of course, seeing a UFO land on my front lawn with a little gray man emerging to shake my hand might do the trick as well.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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As with most things in life, one will always have doubts. I'm a "skeptic" but a believer. I think that anything is possible, but don't want to latch onto a theory without some evidence. Now to get onto the question at hand.

Conclusive evidence for me, other than a sober first hand experience, would involve a live video feed, being broadcasted all over the world, in which individuals interacted with either an alien being or alien technology, and lastly having an open forum for questions. I find that the brevity of footage is a main irritation. If the mentioned event could last for hours, then I would think it irrefutable. Of course, the above scenario probably will never happen. I'd also like to see the being, if that's the evidence, do various activities or interactions, such as swimming, running, flying, whatever. Yeah, it's a ridiculous request, but I would consider this complete and undeniable proof. Peace out.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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I am a [hopeful] skeptic. Meaning, I have not see anything yet that has made me believe 100%. But I am hopeful that someday I will see something that will make me believe that there are [alien] UFOs and living beings visiting us from outside of Earth.

But in the meantime, I remain cautiously skeptical and look at EVERYTHING posted, talked about, aired, etc. just in case.

What will make me believe with no doubts? I honestly do not know. That is impossible to answer. It will just be something that hits me in the gut and I "just know".


I think it is very imporant to ALWAYS go thru a 'process of elimination' when figuring out if something is from Earth or outside of Earth. This goes for believers, non-believers and hopeful-skeptics. And that is what I do....hopefully some day, the smoking gun will come across my eyes


[edit on 30-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


I completely agree with everything you said. I'm a 'hopeful skeptic' too who actually wants to believe- I just need some substantial evidence. ET life is very probable in my opinion due to the vastness of the space and of course I believe it is within God's power to create other life. It would just be nice to seal the deal evidence-wise. I'm not in denial just for the sake of being difficult or close-minded and can admit aliens most likely exist but, like you, it's just something that makes sense- not something that has been proven in my mind.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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I guess that is why it is difficult for some of us what you call believers to relate to some of the skeptics. If you have noticed.. I do question the fakes just like anyone else does. I am not blind. However.. I know for a fact that not all are fake because unlike most people I have had first hand experience in many different things that most people will never see or experience in their lifetimes.

Some us know because we have seen.

I have NEVER been abducted however. Thankfully I am quite grateful to have never met the grays. I have however had contact. Unlike the grays, some races do not take you... they just come and have a chat with you.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
I'm actually a skeptical believer, but here's what you'd need:

What I'd really like to see:

An abductee whip out a cell phone camera and shoot some video of the inside of a craft...should be SOMEONE who can pull this off with everyone who keeps claiming abduction....



The vast majority of abductees are rendered unable to move during their abductions. Some are able to physically move around but in a very limited way. Rare cases of contactee scenarios have brought forth photographic evidence.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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It doesn't matter. I have come to realize that the only people who will ever know the truth are those that experience it firsthand.

Disinfo has won the war. We now have so much technology that anything can be considered fake.

I give up trying.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by NephraTari
It doesn't matter. I have come to realize that the only people who will ever know the truth are those that experience it firsthand.

Disinfo has won the war. We now have so much technology that anything can be considered fake.

I give up trying.

The only people who will ever know something are those who love the truth.
To talk about disinfo while commenting a cgi made by Philipe Kling David, a guy that i know PERSONALLY, IS disinfo.
If you don't know the difference between misinformation and ignorance, then is NOT our fault. That video is a CGI made by a friend of mine, end of story.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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Its not the person its the technology.
It makes reality so impossible to prove.

If someone did bring a real video to light someone with CGI skills could make one just like it and prove that it is a possible fake.. even if its real.

Its the technology that makes it impossible to prove anything anymore.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by NephraTari
 


Technology is NOTHING without PEOPLE.
Technology can't work if there are NOT blind believers.
That makes the difference: you can make a perfect CGI, but you can't fool me, you know?
a video by itself is NOTHING, NOTHING.

David Nicholas brought a new level of CGI to out attention, but it was expected, it was a matter of time.
Do you think that a real alien interview would be released via YouTube? Do you really think that?


[edit on 30/5/2008 by internos]



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Acidtastic
so come on,what will you accept as evidence,outside of a personal experience?


To answer the question: overwhelming and irrefutable.

But that answer may be too simplistic, because I don't know what that evidence is. It could be a subtle clue that, when put into the right context, completely changes one's outlook. Or it could be an event so dramatic there is no denying that. To paraphrase Justice Potter Stewart: "I'll know it when I see it."

And I can tell you, from personal experience, that personal experience is not proof enough.


you know i see this all the time in the ufo and bigfoot forums. "personal experience isn't proof enough" "eyewitness accounts are untrustworthy because of the infallibility of humans"
and yet in this very country there are going to be people this year who are executed based solely on eyewitness account.
funny how it's good enough to get someone killed but not good enough for a piece in the proof pie of subjects like ufology and cryptozoology.
i say proof pie, because while eyewitness testimony is important it isn't the be all end all of proof and should be a part of the whole in gathering facts. yet....unless it's to send someone to jail or get them executed it isn't good enough for anything else...laughable.



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