Maybe localy the Muslims haven't try to convert you, but in the rest of the world thats not precisely true. Oh and Al Jazeria is definatly not christian or jewish TV. If you can, go look at they're Saturday morning cartoons for kids,LOL It will scare ya!!
Zindo

Originally posted by Astyanax
Is the End nigh?

Now, I'm not suggesting that creationists are conspiring to take over the board or anything; despite my years on ATS, I'm not that paranoid.

Ummm, yes, you did.

You said we used "Pincer" attacks.

These pointless threads are created and sustained by a new breed of ATS member, the type who gets his information about FTs from TV 'documentaries' and science-fiction shows like The X Files. The quality of discussion has plummeted.

WOW, why don't YOU
start some good threads, if EVERYONE else's are so stupid?

The creationists, though, are another matter. They are the people I referred to earlier, the ones who ended their quest for meaning in life by immersing themselves in some degenerate offshoot of the Christian religion.

Degenerate offshoot?
From what? My Christianity is not comparable to another?

However, this is dangerous work -- many of my favourite members have been banned because they took on the creationists. The reasons for their banning were all different,

Just like I've asked someone else.
Who was banned, and why? What did we do to them?

---

---

Originally posted by Mad_Hatter
Your question isn't really fair. In essence, your asking me how I would have handled a discussion that I didn't agree with versus a discussion that I agree with. Obviously I would handle them differently, as I'm sure you would. Its all great debate though. I had fun and learned some things as well. That's what its all about, right?

I think it is a very fair question. For instance, I get sick to death of Israel-bashing threads but understand I have no right to accuse Pro-Palestine members of trying to hijack or destroy ATS. It's just the way it goes. So you might disagree with creationism but accusing them of destroying ATS, hijacking threads, or acting as a forum gang is pretty unfair.

The question was aimed due to the fact people are supporting the OP due to their dislike of creationism. However, I wonder if they would have been supporting a thread stating something about hushing liberal views, political views, atheistic views, skeptical views, etc. Their tone would most likely change to what creationists are saying here: Everyone has the right to believe and defend what they want on here.

As for the comments regarding Christians being the largest group trying to convert. I won't disagree with you there- at least in the U.S. However, I've never seen anyone trying to convert me like the atheists do. Christians are accused of trying to convert through fear while I see atheists trying to convert through arrogance and belittlement. Just my two cents.

I too used to be a great lurker of these boards and this site pratically single handely endowned me with all the knowlege of how to debate and evalute further that i posses today.

Just watching the intellectual serves and volleys of some members back then was pratically an art form in it's own right you would certainely leave the site that day learning at least something new or evalutating how you percieve things and your train of thoughts.

There's few faces i recognise these days but does that mean one is biased to only acknowleding the posts of members we know???..no it doesn't a point is a point no matter who makes it and a debate is for everyone and the more the merrier in my opinion anyway.

Theres always been outstanding members on ATS who no matter what race or idealogical creed who would engage in debates show their point and listen and take on board what is being said by everyone, They will go out of their comfort zones and are prepared to exercise new trains of thought.

Even on occasions certain threads that have ended with unanimous agreement weirdly by all parties taking part in it which is a strange and rare event.

It seems though theres more insults and a breakdown in calibre of debates and communications. Maybe not enough people are reading the excellent beginners materials offered by this site and the sites TOS?? I don't know.

In my opinion it's not solely the creationists faults as they're are and have been many geat creationist members as with every other group/label we can think of and theres not so great members in ever group/label again what counts here is not your belief but the way you conduct yourself as a member of this site.

There's alot of my way or the highway type threads nowadays that then get reduced to insults, But it's not too much a big deal every member has been prone to faulter and make an insult now and again and the moderators always take care of it when need be.

What's worrying though is the blatent refusal of some people to basically 'DENY IGNORANCE' everyone is welcomed to their beliefs but as in another thread people are taking insult to others opinions when they aren't even being addressed or twisting peices of what being said to just basically start a 'war' and to harrass members.

It's as if the whole debate revolves around them, Now everyone posses an ego it would be ignorant to suggest we're all perfect infalliable beings but it's exasperating to see debates being turned into games of who has the bigger 'gang' basically.

It's disgusting to promote ones beliefs and then refuse to let others air theres, Too demean people as something or other to try and devalue them and thus there opinions.

Too think that the majority opinion is the right one and because people have simply left a debate that you've 'won' and are a superior person to them.

It just seems that theres more of this going on this than before.

/Rant Over





[edit on 30-5-2008 by SR]

At the end of the day... what does religion solve?

Nothing...

Creationism is based on a few fact-less books that are still doing the rounds, people will still defend those idea's with violence and hatred and igorance...

This backwards mentality should stop, we are in the 21st century and millions and millions of people still die through war, violence, disease, poverty etc... and all the god-botherers can do is say 'oh well it's god's will' and crap like that.

When will people wake up and actually help each other instead of spouting off a few verses from their book of choice.

We need action and not words to solve our world's ills.

Mr L

A conscious athiest. x

I would agree that I find it annoying when Christians bring their beliefs into everything; however, the author of this thread seems to have a problem with it because of his strong disbelief in religion, more than anything. It sounds more like the lament of an irritated atheist, than anything else.

Tell me this: how is a religious person's use of their religion as a basis for their replies any different than those who use evolution as a basis for their replies? Both are beliefs about origins than cannot be proven, but have to be taken on faith. One is faith in a higher power, other is faith is the scientific establishment. In a way, the religious people are more "fringe" than the atheist, which is likely part of what brings them here. I think the rise in "religious" people that you see has more to do with a growing disillusionment with the science/humanism based "religion" than a planned infiltration. Most people have a limited view of things, and see it as being either science or Christianity, so when science has faltered and strayed from truth, they swing the other way.

edit for spelling

[edit on 5/30/2008 by saturnine_sweet]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to drop in and give kind of a third party opinion on this whole topic. I will say that I can't decide which side of this Creationist vs. Evolutionist/Science debate I take, because neither have been proven beyond all doubt. That said, I'm not here to take either side. I often consider my vantage point somewhat ubiased because I try to look at and accept all directions of an argument. I've read these forums for quite sometime (nearly 2 years) but only recently have I felt comfortable enough with my knowledge to post. You don't have to take this post to heart, but at least hear me out:

The problem I often see in threads isn't always the Creationist, nor the Evolutionists, Skeptics, Ufologist, or what have you.. It is the way people approach debates. Instead of approaching topics as DEBATES, they approach them as ARGUMENTS. I'll agree with the OP to the point of saying, topics are going downhill and a lot of garbage is repeated and what not. I rarely see debates where all angles of opinion are respected by all involved in the debate. Instead of listening to what the other person has to say, analyzing it, considering where the opposition is coming from, and making a thoughtful and legitimate rebuttle.. I notice that a lot of posters will read the title of a thread or a few sentences from a post and respond accordingly. Because of this, you often see several wasted posts because no one cared to read the other person's post thoroughly and with an open mind. This often results in miscommunicated arguments, unsupported knee jerk responses, lack of credible sources if any at all, and the worst of all is the insults and belittling of the opposition's opinion. Which in turn leads to similar responses from the OP's or the opposition.. It's a vicious cycle.

The process allows for very little, if any, real intellectual DEBATE. It turns into a name calling, finger pointing, mud-slinging, "ARGUMENT" at a child like maturity level that more often than not results in zero progress.

As the OP stated, arguments used to be well sourced and intellectual. I feel that to make an argument, you must be able to provide credible sources to back your claims and I think many people would agree with this. A certain respect and understanding must exist between all members of the debate too. Presently, I am hard pressed to find a thread where any subjects are supported with credible and or NEW information or sources. Nor can I find many where the "mutual respect" I speak of exists. Many threads often turn into what I have already discussed and many are just repeated and redundant threads which also turn into ARGUMENTS as opposed to DEBATE.

The point I'm trying to make is this:

No matter what your beliefs are and no matter how much knowledge you possess concerning a subject, you MUST RESPECT and at least try to UNDERSTAND the opposition's point of view to the best of your ability, even if you do not agree with it entirely. After, and only after those steps are taken are you able to make a respectful and intelligent rebuttle to the subject of debate. A mutual respect for eachother's beliefs must be present in order for us to peacefully and intellectually coexist.


EDIT: Fixed a couple errors.


[edit on 30-5-2008 by ZiggyMojo]

WOW, well told story, however, I cannot understand why any one group would want to silence another.

If you don't like what they have to say don't read it.

You know the argument by now, and the outcome, stop beating a dead horse.

this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, i feel there's just way to many posts about the quality on ATS dipping, and not half as many people actually posting the quality stuff that they claim used to be here.

honestly, if your here long enough that you remember a time when there were fewer members and the opening posts took half an hour to read, then you've got a heck of a lot of knowledge to pass on by now, so get going.

when i joined ATS first, the only thing i knew about conspiracies was what i'ld seen on the x-files and a few documentaries, i read ATS, i followed links, i went down rabbit holes and heard about ten sides of every argument. now i know crap that they know i know and i know crap they don't think i know but i think they know that i know that they don't think i know. it's got to be the same with other members that have been here a while.

OP, i have to say, for a man that misses the old school ATS members and the verbal table tennis and logical mangles they performed, you can't half manage yourself when you want to. so the fifth option, as always on ATS, if the creationists are driving you nuts, fill three posts opening a thread about why exactly your right, not why they're wrong. give ATS more of the good stuff you love.

Most of ATS acts in groups, whether they want to believe it or not. People of like minded opinions only star and flag each others posts, do everything possible to get people of the opposing view punished, and the majority of people here are uninterested in a conversation and are more interesting in preaching to the choir. It goes both ways.

I have noted there is a definitive formula to getting your posts highly praised, starred, and flagged on ATS: bash Bush (for anything, it doesn't really matter), bash the government (again, for anything), act hysterical and declare the end is nigh (for any reason), talk about how the economy is horrible, or create a post bashing some demographic that ATS dislikes (no reason needed, they'll still praise it). These are the threads I see where people work in groups to shove their opinion across - I have yet to see any of the fundamentalists get even close in comparison. They may be a problem, but there are many larger ones...


[edit on 30-5-2008 by ALightinDarkness]