I've tried to discuss this with friends, but they tend to get emotional and end up yelling. I think it's because we're face to face and comfortable with each other so it's more informal and can lead to being a bit emotionally charged instead of academically. So I pose the question on ATS, in hopes of some straightforward/objective answers.

Personally I am for gay marriage. I don't see anything wrong with two men/women getting together. If they're in love, I don't see anything wrong with it. Please try to refrain from the "it's unnatural", "god says it's wrong", "I just don't want to see it" answers. If that's your opinion, please provide the basis for that opinion, but don't just say "it's wrong". I'm just trying to understand the basis for anti-gay marriage individuals, which isn't based on a blind adherence to norms that hold no actual weight in reality. I promise I'll be open-minded and won't flame anything. Just looking for opinions.

For example, I don't think it's unnatural, for I don't think the reason we have sex is merely for procreation. Sure, babies come from sex, but I'd say a large amount of sex is used for pleasure not reproduction. Sex is about connecting with someone on an emotional/romantic level. Because this is my definition of sex, I don't see gay sex as wrong.

P.S.: I'm new here, so let me know if I should move this thread somewhere else, but Skunk Works seemed the best choice to me. Also, I'm not a very politically correct person, so forgive me if I offend anyone with my vocabulary, or just let me know.

Because they cant grasp the fact that if a person/human loves another person/human that they can aknowledge that love and devotion through marriage...of course...many *Christians* would like you to belieive that marriage is a christian philosophy,which is not true in the slightest,yet many people still believe...in the end they are just homophobes against free will of all mankind.

oh and as for the religious side of it...God says alot of things...most of which are just silly...kill non believers? Dont eat shellfish? People like to pick and choose...just for a reason to justify their dubious moral values...

[edit on 29-5-2008 by Lethil]

If "they" adopt a kid, then the kid will be made fun in school.

Originally posted by Kobe Bryant
If "they" adopt a kid, then the kid will be made fun in school.

If a man with one eye has a kid,that kid will also be *made* fun of,that is societies problem,not who the father/mother has relationships with...

[edit on 29-5-2008 by Lethil]

Originally posted by Lethil

Originally posted by Kobe Bryant
If "they" adopt a kid, then the kid will be made fun in school.

If a man with one eye has a kid,that kid will also be *made* fun of,that is societies problem,not who the father/mother has relationships with...

No, his dad probably won't be made fun of.

The problem I have with that argument is that most children are made fun of in school. It has nothing to do with gay marriage, it's the fact that we teach intolerance to our children. If we stopped doing everything that got children made fun of in school, no one would go to school and we'd all just sit around and wait to die. So that's not a reason to be against gay marriage, it's a reason to improve our socialization so children aren't bullies in school, which usually roots with parents.

Homophobia comes in 10,000 different shapes, sizes and color. I'm beginning to think that sexuality is something less naturally occurring and maybe DOES have something to do with environment. Of course, our physiology does have a lot to do with it.

For example though, it is much more prevalent nowadays to see two straight women kissing for fun, or maybe even having sex together. This is more widely acceptable because we as men must think lesbianism is "HOT." As a straight male, I get the heebie-jeebies thinking about kissing a dude, but maybe that's just a bit of homophobia planted in myself.

But history shows us, that when it is socially accepted, people do it, period. Ancient civilizations did things that we would find horrifying today, but it was cool back then. And certain places in the world gay sex is accepted before marrying someone of the opposite sex (some places in India I believe, correct me if I'm wrong.)

So my thought is, if I grew up seeing straight and gay sex as norms, maybe even I would be more comfortable with it. I don't think "heebie jeebies" classifies as an instinct...

The way it should always be.. No one should care what happens in your bedroom.

ETA: Just realized I went on a bit of a tangent.

The only reason one would be against gay marriage is their own irrational, ignorant ideals. There is ABSOLUTELY no logical reason to fight love in any form, and I get sick to my stomach when the subject is brought up amongst people who think they have the right to take others' away.

[edit on 5/29/08 by SantaClaus]

Wow, doesn't look like anyone has much to say when they can't quote their bibles or other superficial reasonings.

I agree with you totally. I find it infuriating when this issue is brought up and all I hear is ignorance.

It is not a privilege to get married it is a right. I don't understand how a government can have precedence over this issue.

Anyway............

Yeah going by that logic black people shouldn't be allowed to stay in hotels...or get married...or use public transport etc...doesnt work with some peoples beliefs so whats the problem? Freedom for all etc....

Originally posted by Lethil
Yeah going by that logic black people shouldn't be allowed to stay in hotels...or get married...or use public transport etc...doesnt work with some peoples beliefs so whats the problem? Freedom for all etc....

I believe you revered to my post so let me react. The matter is quite complicated. Marriage has long been a matter of church. The job of marrying will likely be occupied by religious people. Bluntly call out a law telling people should switch of they’re believes and do what is told won’t do good. The matter freedom of religion can’t be taken thus lightly.

I think it’s good that the gay community is now allowed to marry but it’s Utopian thinking the revolt will be completely done with overnight. It is a slow process that can’t be forced into existents. I even think that trying to kick in the door will result in more homophobia, shutting the door right back.

If I was gay and wanted to get married, I would want a registrar that is good with that, not having to think that maybe the one before me is disgusted by what s/he is doing. It’ll go only downhill after the best day of my live so I would want to be bloody sure s/he does everything to make it count!

Marriage has nothing to do with the church....thats like saying cheese and a bottle of vodka have something in common...the church would like you to think they have some moral authority on the matter,when in reality it dates back thousands of years before the *church* was even established...and when i say church i mean most modern monotheistic religions...thats if you buy the fact they were mono in the first place before being edited....anyway its all homophobic feelings wrapped up in religion imo...

But yah..i understand where you are coming from...we just shouldnt tolerate this on the bounds of religious freedom blah blah etc These people are just against human freeedom that doesnt conform to their views.Case Closed.
[edit on 29-5-2008 by Lethil]

[edit on 29-5-2008 by Lethil]

I don’t care if marriage didn’t originated in church. The fact is that people doing the marriage ceremony are likely to be religious people because it has been something connected with modern whatever religion for a while now.

The opening is there to do the marriage thing for gays. Why risk a sloppy job by forcing someone to do the ceremony?

Originally posted by Lethil

But yah..i understand where you are coming from...we just shouldnt tolerate this on the bounds of religious freedom blah blah etc These people are just against human freeedom that doesnt conform to their views.Case Closed.
[edit on 29-5-2008 by Lethil]

[edit on 29-5-2008 by Lethil]

The moment people shout case closed you bet ya I will rip the lid right of again.

Thank you for altering your post. No you can not even imagine where I’m coming from. I aint gay and I aint religious. What I do care about is that freedom is easy to lose and there is no such thing as thinking light about any freedom. This persons freedom should not go to waste at the freedoms of an other.

If there are homophobes you can bet ya there are reliphobes as well. The latter not one hair better than the former. Yourgroups freedoms should not stand above the freedoms of themgroup. That’s closing the case the easy way out.

Why I find gays offensive...
1. I consider your life style a fetish...
2. when I see a guy act like a tart.. I want to barf
3. I dig 2 girls kissing, thats ok... but bruce and bill - well makes me ill.
just call me old fashion... I think Sex and Marrage should be done between one man and as many woman as he can nail before he crokes. sort of speak.

[edit on 29-5-2008 by 888LetsRoll]

I would like to post my thoughts but I don't want to offfend anyone. So maybe I should just sit on the fence and see what happens??

I dont see the point to them getting married...
Marrage is a household for raising children in a wholesome environment.

If you can show me a Man that can have a baby - I will change my Views on Marriage... Tax benefit is help grow the population... whats so special about one dude giving up his last name for the other dudes last name..
it seems they want the fruit and the framework for raising children in which it was built. I just think Gays have been in the closet for thousands of years... Just keep it there, in the closet.. now I do support domestic partner rights. healthcare, death benefits etc... but not the same status as a Household to raise children. call it something else and the same benefits of husband and wife without the Kissing in public crap.


[edit on 29-5-2008 by 888LetsRoll]

Reply to 888LetsRoll

The problem with that argument is then marriage become pointless, or rather marriage doesn't exist. Just because heterosexuals are married doesn't provide a wholesome environment. Marriage is about a romantic close personal relationship between two people who are in love and want to be together until death, atleast that's how I see it. The sex of parents has nothing to do with good parenting. A family raises a child, and a family is just a grouping of people who care about each other. I consider my friends family, and I don't consider some of my blood relations family, because they don't care about me.

I just fail to see how the physical act of having a child has anything to do with not allowing people to get married. I also doubt that many people will get married for tax purposes if they're not gay. We also have way too many people on this planet, so population growth isn't a good idea right now. When you see these people fighting for their right to get married, I see more than people looking to change their last name, they're fighting because everything inside them is saying that they should be with their special someone, and society is saying, because you don't fit into my little box, you need to get out. Just my opinion of course.