Osama Bin Laden and September 11

reply to post by WhatTheory


Ok, peace pipe - but it was just a bit of fun

Back to the post quotes - like I said, I address a whole post instead of just picking the bits out that suit me - I've found that method does little to help reasonable debate.

Yes there is alleged evidence to say that saddam moved WMDs to syria before the invasion, but that still doesn't address the issue of why the UN inspectors never found any.

There is of course a series of denials from Syria, and other evidence to suggest they were not moved.
Denial from syria

No evidence of WMDs

And then perhaps another nail in the coffin Here

I don't think we can really say with any degree of certainty that the WMDs were NOT transported, but equally, I don't think enough REAL evidence exists to say that they were, or even that they existed in a state where they could be used.

The evidence is not compelling for either side of the argument, and a good case could be made that they barely existed.

The evidence that saddam had PLANS for chemical weapons is good, but after GW1 it became less so.

Originally posted by IvanZana
reply to post by IvanZana

 

I remember hearing this shortly after 911.

What more proof you want.

What proof is there that he is involved in 911?

The FBI doesnt have enough evidence to link him to 911. what more do you want.

The video confessions from laden have been proven fraudulant, what more do you want?


[edit on 29-5-2008 by IvanZana]

Ivan, I know exactly where your coming from.. I have been trying to get people to understand for a long time... It baffles me. Some people have just been too brainwashed to believe what THEY really want to.

You will ask them for proof, they will say "Didnt you see pictures of the hijackers" Yes I did.. And I also happened to hear that 7 of them came forward and tried to prove they were innocent. This means what? God knows what really happened to them. I have never believed and never will believe that this was done by OBL. If you really think about it... it is so ridiculous...

The MOST POWERFUL Air Force in the world were not able to stop these hijackers.. With ALL the air bases located around the U.S. And this was all planned by one or two men in a cave. Do you remember all the hype after 9/11 about it being an inside job, or that the plane that hit the Pentagon was actually a missile? How quickly were those theories dismissed?? Everything was swept under the rug, nothing was discussed, no one was charged.

IS this your proof? Or that fake video of OBL??

If you consider this proof, your a fool.

LOL such baloney!! of course he denied, if you watching the news you would of heard Bin Laden's official statement denying it!! He did not admit to it until AFTER we invaded Afghanistan!

reply to post by jamie83


Your government is responsible for 9/11, what is wrong with you people, wake up, WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by WhatTheory


I would more or less lean towards thats where all the
wealth was secretly being shipped too via those trucks

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
"Oh hell, aside from the last time he tried to blow up the Towers,

You mean with the "help" of the FBI right?

[edit] Allegations of FBI foreknowledge
In the course of the trial it was revealed that the FBI had an informant, a former Egyptian army officer named Emad Salem. Salem claims to have informed the FBI of the plot to bomb the towers as early as February 6, 1992. Salem's role as informant allowed the FBI to quickly pinpoint the conspirators out of hundreds of possible suspects.

Salem, initially believing that this was to be a sting operation, claimed that the FBI's original plan was for Salem to supply the conspirators with a harmless powder instead of actual explosive to build their bomb, but that the FBI chose to use him for other purposes instead.[11] He secretly recorded hundreds of hours of telephone conversations with his FBI handlers.[12]

In December 1993, James M. Fox, the head of the FBI's New York Office, denied that the FBI had any foreknowledge of the attacks.[citation needed] The 1993 WTC sting operation was depicted as a false flag operation and was a plot device for the 1996 fictional movie The Long Kiss Goodnight with Geena Davis.

en.wikipedia.org...

It's on record that they "helped" but do you think we would ever hear of that?

and aside from trying to blow up the USS Cole,

You mean the same USS COLE where Israel Mossad is suspected of the attack and NOT Bin Laden?

O'Neill Was Sent To Investigate the USS Cole Attack


He took a team of FBI agents to Yemen, where his investigation pointed to Israeli involvement.

And this gets us into the WTC 9/11 attacks.

In September of 2001, mere days before 9/11, he got a job offer from Larry Silverstein (owner of WTC). Oddly, O'Neill was missing for two days before 9/11 –miraculously his body was discovered in tact in the WTC ruins.

judicial-inc.biz...

I believe John O'Neil knew too much about the Mossad involvement of these terrorist attacks and was thusly murdered for it.

Originally posted by jamie83
Whoa... hold on a sec Sparky... because al-Jazeera put out what they claimed was a quote from OBL that means it's genuine in your book?

Actually, wouldn't Al-Jazeera want to be able to claim Bin-Laden did it? Wouldn't that bolster their hero?

I've never heard of a terrorist not taking pride and responsibility for their work before 9/11? I wonder why he would deny doing it if he did?

Originally posted by deltaboy
Its a fact that Osama and his group were responsible for 9/11. Its a fact that Osama admitted and explained why they attacked the U.S. It has nothing to do with freedom hating as Bush has mentioned, it has to do with support of Israel and American presence in the Middle East as Osama and Al Qaeda has pointed out for many years. All these attacks started when American troops were presented in Saudi Arabia back in 1990. The first Al Qaeda attack was in 93, 3 years afterwards. Since then more attacks came, the 1996 Khobar Towers, 98 American embassies, 2000 Cole attack, and finally 2001. You think we got the message in the 90s? But nooooo, so what do you think Al Qaeda did that would make us aware of them when we ignore their petty attacks in the 90s? 9/11 thats how.

It's funny that Ron Paul got blasted for saying the exact same thing you did here.

(CNN) -- Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani was declared the winner of Tuesday's Republican presidential debate in South Carolina, largely for his smack down of Texas Rep. Ron Paul, who suggested that America's foreign policy contributed to the destruction on September 11, 2001.

www.cnn.com...

But yeah, some people still think Saddam had something to do with 9/11.

Osama's dead, so that's that.
They continue to 'pretend' he is still alive by issuing fake 'new' audio tapes of 'him' giving more lame threats toward the west (gee I wonder why there has suddenly been ZERO video footage of him over the past several years now, just audio...) he's long dead and gone, and they just use his name as terrorist propaganda to try and stop the inevitable fall and destruction of al ' Queda

Originally posted by WhatTheory
So what? Besides, waterboarding is not really torture despite what others might say.

It's my belief that people who say things like this should be waterboarded IMMEDIATELY. Who knows, they might be smart enough to turn around. I said might.

Agencies claim by CT's to be involved in order to carry out the 9-11 attacks:
FBI, CIA, NSA, NIST, Congress, White House, Pentagon, Homeland Security, FAA, NORAD, NYPD, NYFD, Air Force, Army, Raytheon, Dept of Transportation, Israeli Government, FEMA and I know I'm missing some...

Add to that the involvement that many "truthers" charge to: witness of the events(every single one of them is on the payroll), ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, CNN, BBC, and all the radio stations and newspapers from the top executives to the repoters on the ground, they are all in the payroll too.

Add to that, the people that are still on the payroll to cover the tracks, the family of the deceased, phone communications that must have been faked too... I mean the conspiracies just keep growing exponentially and not one person can address the biggest question of all.... How our government did it? How they manage to pull it off at this scale, down to the last detail? Just how?


This is what bugs the heck out of me with the conspiracies of 9-11, that they claim that some way, some how our the same incompetent government that is not able to fights successful wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, was able someway, somehow to pull of the most comprehensive, well coordinated, interagency, interservice, timely critical attack on their own people with not one person blowing a whistle.

I sometimes have a hard time trying to figure out how 19 highkackers we're able to get on planes and take them over and crash them into buildings, but once I started to follow the conspiracies and saw that most of them are more ludicrous and preposterous than the story as presented and I gave up on those.

The main problems that you have with conspiracies thories about 9/11 is that they don't address the biggest question of HOW? Of course the official story has holes, but not as much any single one conspiracy has.

My 02.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by Bunch]

Originally posted by Bunch
The main problems that you have with conspiracies thories about 9/11 is that they don't address the biggest question of HOW?

Including the biggest conspiracy theory of them all. The official story.

Originally posted by Griff
Including the biggest conspiracy theory of them all. The official story.

Thank you Griff, for this statement. Every one of the theories surrounding the events of 9/11 have holes in them. However, there are more, and bigger holes in the official story than any other theory. Just as with religion, it's not what you believe, it's why you believe it that matters.

Originally posted by Unit541
Just as with religion, it's not what you believe, it's why you believe it that matters.

And also, just as religion, I think your sig says all we need to know.

reply to post by Unit541


Conversely I can say that the reason why the official story has so many "holes" is because is the only explanation that goes deep in details about the events that occur that day.

You take the 9-11 Commission Report, the NIST report, and all other government reports that had been out forth and the amount of information is outstanding, so anyone that it looking for holes might think that they found one.

On the other hand conspiracies what they do is poke a hole in some section of report and then claim to have irrefutable proof of something which is utterly misleading, a hole is a hole and that's that. Now if you find a way to explain how such a comprehensive operation was out forth that puts together all the aspects that an operation like this entails, then you can claim that you have a solid theory of what happen.

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by Alethia

 

english.aljazeera.net...

But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.

So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.

And to the answer about why Osama is still free, think of geography in Afghanistan and Pakistan. How long did it take to find Saddam Hussein with about 150,000 troops in Iraq? Saddam was not let free, hes just not making it easy to find him. Same for Osama.

OK, so he said it had "occured" to him. He doesn't say he did it, so it's not implicit proof.

Re: geography, are you saying that because he's stuck in a few hills it's too difficult. Soldiers can't go up hills now? The only reason we got Saddam was because he was under a nice flat surface? Come on, if you really want someone, you get them, mountains/hills/underground or not.

In 2001, George W. Bush stated "We want him, dead or alive."

In 2008, George W. Bush stated "You know what, he doesn't interest me, I couldn't really care any less about him."

Hmmmmmm, a man clearly not of his convictions. Or maybe the thought or going up a steep hill just put him off?

reply to post by Bunch


The sheer volume of information presented in the official reports suffers from one big caveat: much of it is readily identified as "filler", hence the fairly unanimous consensus that that these reports are insufficient. As much as they explain, they ignore even more. Why did more than 50% of the questions asked by families of the victims go totally ignored in the official report?

The fact is that much of the information provided by the official story is either falsified, withheld, or both. The Truth movement wasn't born out of boredom.

Originally posted by Alethia
In 2001, George W. Bush stated "We want him, dead or alive."

In 2008, George W. Bush stated "You know what, he doesn't interest me, I couldn't really care any less about him."

Actually, I believe it was only 4 months after the first quote that he first said he didn't care about the whereabouts of bin-Laden. I'll dig up the quote in a bit.

reply to post by Griff


I think your statement is misleading in the sense that the official report DO address the why, when and how this high jackers manage to carry out the operation.

Everyone that knows something about 9/11 can tell you the why the highjackers did it. Then when it was getting planned, the when they got to the U.S. , the when the plane crashes occur. The how they got the money, how they got into the U.S., the how they manage to go to flight school, the how they got to the airport, the how they got into the cockpits, the how they flew the planes.

One thing is to say that you don't agree with the information presented to which you are completely entitled another thing is to say that the information is not there, that's misleading.

reply to post by Bunch


How do you explain the fact that some of the alleged hijackers are still alive and well and have never been near the US?

I'm not going to buy the ID theft story that usually gets bandied around.