Barack Obama has an infantile mentality.

reply to post by SteveR


I find it curious that Obama supporters are so consistently insistent that others must stick with the "issues" and not dare discuss Obama's personal qualities, or lack thereof. I'm not sure I can ever remember a major candidate whose followers were so insistent on sticking with "issues."

What makes this even more bizarre is that Obama supporters probably couldn't identify any substantive differences between Obama's positions and Clinton's positions. I.e., their support for Obama is based almost ENTIRELY on his personality, and yet they insist that his detractors NOT discuss his personality.

All in all, this is a very weird phenomenon.


[edit on 29-5-2008 by jamie83]

reply to post by jamie83


I'm actually not an Obama supporter as much as I am a Ron Paul supporter. I do, however, hate to admit that he has as slim a chance as any 3rd party candidate has ever had in a US election. Bearing that in mind I like Obama more than the alternatives.

I am simply pointing out that attacks on a candidates character and moral views are more likely to appeal to sensationalists rather than intellectuals.

If you don't like Obama, perhaps instead of attacking his smoking habits (he's trying to quit I hear), you could attack his support of our troops with the GI Bill.

Just an idea.

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by lee anoma
This proves what exactly?

That the President of the United States should have some dignity about him. ... It doesn't matter if you're black or white, young or old, left or right.

Idiots come in many forms.

Why are you injecting race into the issue? It's funny but I usually hear those that complain about it always bringing it up.

ON TOPIC:
How does this image show he can't be president? I am confused?
Your comment is a little naive.

Should I list the Presidents from the past till present that were smokers? Let alone respected minds like scientists, authors, or artists.

Presidential Tobacco Preferences

John Adams 1797-1801 cigar
James Madison 1809-1817 cigar
John Quincy Adams 1825-1829 cigar
Andrew Jackson 1829-1837 cigar
Martin Van Buren 1837-1841 pipe
William Henry Harrison 1841 pipe
John Tyler 1841-1845 cigar
Zachary Taylor 1849-1850 cigar
Andrew Johnson 1865-1869 cigar
Ulysses S. Grant 1869-1877 cigar
Chester A. Arthur 1881-1885 cigar
Grover Cleveland 1885-1889 chewing tobacco
Benjamin Harrison 1889-1893 cigar
Grover Cleveland 1893-1897 chewing tobacco
William McKinley 1897-1901 cigar
Warren G. Harding 1921-1923 cigar
Calvin Coolidge 1923-1929 cigar
Herbert Hoover 1929-1933 cigar
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933-1945 cigarette
Dwight Eisenhower 1953-1961 cigarette
John F. Kennedy 1961-1963 cigar
Lyndon Johnson 1963-1969 cigar
Richard Nixon 1969-1974 cigar
Gerald Ford 1974-1977 pipe
Bill Clinton 1993- cigar

Cigars in the White House

Some of them even dipped snuff so I bet you really must be outraged.

That photo proves nothing other than the fact that he is human which makes me relate to him even more not less.

Oh and lets not get into those with a past drug habit.

George Bush set the bar pretty high in terms of Worst President Ever.
He did EVERYTHING he said he wouldn't and then some. Which is why most are turned off from the idea of another Repub in the White House...and rightly so.

Hates big government but under him it ballooned.
Started a war based on agenda rather than fact and his OWN team states this to be the case. Had many cronies milking the American tax dollar by getting hired to repair Iraq and provide for the troops. Both efforts were sub standard to horrendous. Took a surplus and turned it into a heavy deficit and now what...another Republican will fix things?

Steve as much as the neo-cons wanna try and say it this is not stricly a liberal point of view. There are MANY conservatives that are not only ashamed of this administration but disillusioned with the party in general.

So after 8 years of Bush you think a cigarette is supposed to signal something to me?
To what...get me to vote another Bush-like fellow into the white house?

You have to do better than that bud.



- Lee

Originally posted by drwizardphd

I am simply pointing out that attacks on a candidates character and moral views are more likely to appeal to sensationalists rather than intellectuals.

There seems to be an epidemic of condescension when it comes to giving reasons to support Obama. When you break down this point you're making what you're really saying is people who judge a candidate's character are intellectually inferior.

Typical of Obama supporters. If you don't vote for Obama, you must be a stupid, low-class, white trash, superstitiously religious white dude living in the country.

If you don't like Obama, perhaps instead of attacking his smoking habits (he's trying to quit I hear), you could attack his support of our troops with the GI Bill.

Just an idea.

This really bothers me. Why do candidates get credit for "supporting" people, like GIs, when all they're doing is saying they'll spend more of other people's money than the next guy.

I honestly can't believe that people cheer when they hear candidates tell them how they're going to spend other people's money.

Originally posted by jamie83
I find it curious that Obama supporters are so consistently insistent that others must stick with the "issues" and not dare discuss Obama's personal qualities, or lack thereof. I'm not sure I can ever remember a major candidate whose followers were so insistent on sticking with "issues."

What makes this even more bizarre is that Obama supporters probably couldn't identify any substantive differences between Obama's positions and Clinton's positions. I.e., their support for Obama is based almost ENTIRELY on his personality, and yet they insist that his detractors NOT discuss his personality.

All in all, this is a very weird phenomenon.

This post is spot on. Not only that but the general election hasn't even begun to turn wheels yet. If they think the Republicans are going to stick to the issues, they've got another thing coming. One way or another if you want your candidate to win, you have to appeal to undecided voters. This is something that Obama will not be able to do when the real mud slinging begins.

Originally posted by lee anoma
So after 8 years of Bush you think a cigarette is supposed to signal something to me?
To what...get me to vote another Bush-like fellow into the white house?

This is where you've totally missing the point. Obama is more like Bush than anybody running. He's winning because he's pushing the emotional hot buttons with a well rehearsed script.

Don't get me wrong. I can barely stomach Clinton or McCain as well, but I think it's a mistake to link McCain to Bush because they both belong to the same party, when in fact the similarities between Obama '08 and Bush '00 are much more parallel.

Originally posted by SteveR
Forget the speeches. When Obama thinks for himself, what comes out of his mouth?

Given the complete and utter inate drivel that Bush has managed to spout over the past 8 years, don't you think that your point with this is kind of moot?

The term "Bushism" didn't come about for nothing, did it?

Originally posted by neformore
Given the complete and utter inate drivel that Bush has managed to spout over the past 8 years, don't you think that your point with this is kind of moot?

The term "Bushism" didn't come about for nothing, did it?

While I'm not defending some of the more extreme comments revolving around Obama, I think when the best defense you have for a candidate is "Bush did it too, so it's a draw," it says something about the quality of the candidate(s).

[edit on 29-5-2008 by _Del_]

Obama is making glaring mistakes, at least one a week now for awhile. From Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko and 57 states to inconsistant military records on his Grandpa and Great Uncle etc.

It shows his inexperience and that of his advisors are really coming into focus the closer we move to November 4th.

It's all a sham, and he takes no real stand on the issues (voted "present" on over 120 issues that called for votes).

He is different from week to week. One week he claims Israel is a "constant sore in the ME" and the next week claims he totally supports Israel. What a flip-flopper, so much that he is making John Kerry look stable and that is just bad.




[edit on 29-5-2008 by jetxnet]

Originally posted by lee anoma

Should I list the Presidents from the past till present that were smokers? Let alone respected minds like scientists, authors, or artists.

Presidential Tobacco Preferences

John Adams 1797-1801 cigar
James Madison 1809-1817 cigar
John Quincy Adams 1825-1829 cigar
Andrew Jackson 1829-1837 cigar
Martin Van Buren 1837-1841 pipe
William Henry Harrison 1841 pipe
John Tyler 1841-1845 cigar
Zachary Taylor 1849-1850 cigar
Andrew Johnson 1865-1869 cigar
Ulysses S. Grant 1869-1877 cigar
Chester A. Arthur 1881-1885 cigar
Grover Cleveland 1885-1889 chewing tobacco
Benjamin Harrison 1889-1893 cigar
Grover Cleveland 1893-1897 chewing tobacco
William McKinley 1897-1901 cigar
Warren G. Harding 1921-1923 cigar
Calvin Coolidge 1923-1929 cigar
Herbert Hoover 1929-1933 cigar
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933-1945 cigarette
Dwight Eisenhower 1953-1961 cigarette
John F. Kennedy 1961-1963 cigar
Lyndon Johnson 1963-1969 cigar
Richard Nixon 1969-1974 cigar
Gerald Ford 1974-1977 pipe
Bill Clinton 1993- cigar

Cigars in the White House

Some of them even dipped snuff so I bet you really must be outraged.

Now tell me which one of those presidents preferred coc aine and marijuana?

"I had learned not to care. I blew a few smoke rings, remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though." - Barack Obama

Originally posted by jamie83
This is where you've totally missing the point. Obama is more like Bush than anybody running. He's winning because he's pushing the emotional hot buttons with a well rehearsed script.

I haven't missed the point..I pointed out a photo of a smoking man is not cause for voter alarm. You are saying something completely different and does not relate to my comment at all.

What you are saying is that Obama is riding the tide of emotions that may lead him to the White House in the same fashion George Bush did when he was (astoundingly) elected two serve terms. That in no way indicates he will be the EXACT same type of President George Bush has been. You are comparing the campaigning to the policies and that just doesn't work.

Hell...Obama doesn't even HAVE experience. I know this. How can he be like Bush with practically nothing to compare his record to Bush in terms of political leadership in the long term? People can't claim he is inexperienced and at the same time say he will make the same judgment calls of the more experience Commander-in-Chief we currently have and consequently disapprove of dramatically according to his dismal Presidential rating.

There is no telling WHAT type of President Obama would be. This is all speculation.

I don't think I will vote for him or McCain for that matter, but the Obama fever that people seem to have here in the States are no indication that he will be the same type of Republican leader that George Bush was or more so than the ACTUAL Republican candidate McCain.

If anything what you are saying is that the PEOPLE are in the same emotional mood they were when they elected Bush. That I agree on. Obama lacks substance or has yet to truly define his ideas for change. People are caught up in the movement and that could be dangerous. It all depends. I know that Bush is supporting McCain...and not Obama. McCain has Bush campaigning for him. That shows he will not stray far from the base and that McCain and Bush may share similar notions on what to do as President.

Please.

If you all want to mock Obama supporters then be my guest, just have a little more on the plate than this.

- Lee

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by jamie83
Obama's beliefs, values, and decision making criteria are more important than issues.

No they're not. End of discussion.

If the issues are more important than the man's values and beliefs, then what the hell do we need Obama for? It isn't like his policies are some ground-breaking, revolutionary solutions that nobody has ever thought of before.

But to be fair, name one policy that Obama thought of that's unique, and makes him worth voting for.

Ok , they want to discuss the issues?

Barack Obama:
- Voted for the patriot act (after lying and said he wouldn't)
- Voted to continue funding Iraq war several times
- Supports a national ID card
- Supports increasing size of federal government
- Voted yes on the FEMA bill which gives FEMA more power
- Votes yes on immigration reform bill
- Said he would invade Iran
- Supports fighting on Israel's behalf
- Voted yes on the Homeland Security Grant Program Amendment

Yeahp, that about says it all. The 10 issues out of the hundreds he did vote on mean a bigger government and less rights.

One would have to believe he is a typical Marxist, oh wait .., he is!

Can there be a corrrelation between smoking and doing a good job in the White House. I think you stumbled on to something.

With the exception of JFK from your list, each President either did nothing or substantial damage to the country (i.e. Johnson, Clinton etc.) in terms of National Security or otherwise.

You should study that further, it may make for a good article in Newsweek.

Originally posted by AgentStovkowski

Now tell me which one of those presidents preferred coc aine and marijuana?

How should I know what they preferred?
That wasn't the point I was addressing...I was addressing the photo of him smoking that was placed to show he would not be a good President. When in fact most Presidents did smoke.

Do you have one of him doing coke and smoking weed too? If so please post them.

Obama admits to using drugs in the past. Most people have tried them. Again this makes him more human than not and I'm not throwing stones in a glass-house nor do I expect my President to have been conceived by immaculate conception and never having done a single thing wrong or self destructive in their personal life. I have, have you? More importantly do you think all of our Presidents have never made youthful blunders? If so this is a very naive take not only on Presidents but humans in general.

If he is on coke and weed presently, he certainly holds it together on camera more than the goofy friends I had in college would, and they were always stoned. I've seen people on drugs...not recreational but serious habits. He doesn't appear to be one of them.

Bush has had issues with alcohol in the past...but claims to have overcome that.
I accept this and still think he was a lousy President. If he was STILL on alcohol (and drugs some have claimed) like he was in his early years that would make a lot more sense than a sober person making the decisions he has as President.

- Lee

he is on coke and weed presently, he certainly holds it together on camera more than the goofy friends I had in college would

This is true, he even got the number of states correct. NOT! To be an American and get the number states wrong, you'd have to be smoking something. You can't even get this wrong in your sleep, much-less awake and on Camera.

Originally posted by AgentStovkowski
Ok , they want to discuss the issues?

You're the one that posted a photo as evidence of potential bad leadership.
That is not discussing the issue either is it?

We are not enemies or aliens just people with different views that political hacks use to divide us and elevate themselves to positions of power. They maintain it by feeding those divisions and having us attacking each other.

Don't fall for the "they" game when it turns out "we" are all getting screwed.

- Lee

Originally posted by jetxnet
This is true, he even got the number of states correct. NOT! To be an American and get the number states wrong, you'd have to be smoking something. You can't even get this wrong in your sleep, much-less awake and on Camera.

Heh...okay that proves he's on drugs then. lol.

Hillary is too with her sniper fire stories as well as McCain erroneously stating that al-Qaeda is training in Iran. Then again I personally don't know what it's like to campaign year-round like you must. I am sure it is taxing on the mind and body.

Eh..it's late and this is not really going anywhere so I'll just stop here.

- Lee

Originally posted by _Del_
While I'm not defending some of the more extreme comments revolving around Obama, I think when the best defense you have for a candidate is "Bush did it too, so it's a draw," it says something about the quality of the candidate(s).

Oh - don't get me wrong - I'm English so I'm not going to be voting on this one - I'm not defending the candidate.

The point I was making is that its outright hypocrisy for anyone who voted for Bush or seeks to defend his presidency to try and pick holes in this kind of thing, because the man set the benchmark of idiocy for others to follow.

At least those stories of McCain and Hillary you sited have some credibility. How do you know Al Qaeda isn't training in Iran or getting funding and weapons from Iran? It doesn't take much to think that this would be the case in leui recent findings.

So that is why Obama got the states wrong, he was tired and wore down from campaigning all year round. Of course! It makes sense.

Originally posted by jetxnet
This is true, he even got the number of states correct. NOT! To be an American and get the number states wrong, you'd have to be smoking something. You can't even get this wrong in your sleep, much-less awake and on Camera.

OK. Well I can't resist this anymore, so a few selected quotes from the CinC, from The top 50 Bushisms and Dumb Bush Quotes from his first term

35. "Do you have blacks, too?" —to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

18. "See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction." —Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003

15. "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." —Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001

14. "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." —Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

4. "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

And you guys are knocking Obama? Really? Come on......