Originally posted by drwizardphd

I am simply pointing out that attacks on a candidates character and moral views are more likely to appeal to sensationalists rather than intellectuals.

There seems to be an epidemic of condescension when it comes to giving reasons to support Obama. When you break down this point you're making what you're really saying is people who judge a candidate's character are intellectually inferior.

Typical of Obama supporters. If you don't vote for Obama, you must be a stupid, low-class, white trash, superstitiously religious white dude living in the country.

If you don't like Obama, perhaps instead of attacking his smoking habits (he's trying to quit I hear), you could attack his support of our troops with the GI Bill.

Just an idea.

This really bothers me. Why do candidates get credit for "supporting" people, like GIs, when all they're doing is saying they'll spend more of other people's money than the next guy.

I honestly can't believe that people cheer when they hear candidates tell them how they're going to spend other people's money.

Originally posted by jamie83
I find it curious that Obama supporters are so consistently insistent that others must stick with the "issues" and not dare discuss Obama's personal qualities, or lack thereof. I'm not sure I can ever remember a major candidate whose followers were so insistent on sticking with "issues."

What makes this even more bizarre is that Obama supporters probably couldn't identify any substantive differences between Obama's positions and Clinton's positions. I.e., their support for Obama is based almost ENTIRELY on his personality, and yet they insist that his detractors NOT discuss his personality.

All in all, this is a very weird phenomenon.

This post is spot on. Not only that but the general election hasn't even begun to turn wheels yet. If they think the Republicans are going to stick to the issues, they've got another thing coming. One way or another if you want your candidate to win, you have to appeal to undecided voters. This is something that Obama will not be able to do when the real mud slinging begins.

Originally posted by lee anoma
So after 8 years of Bush you think a cigarette is supposed to signal something to me?
To what...get me to vote another Bush-like fellow into the white house?

This is where you've totally missing the point. Obama is more like Bush than anybody running. He's winning because he's pushing the emotional hot buttons with a well rehearsed script.

Don't get me wrong. I can barely stomach Clinton or McCain as well, but I think it's a mistake to link McCain to Bush because they both belong to the same party, when in fact the similarities between Obama '08 and Bush '00 are much more parallel.

Originally posted by SteveR
Forget the speeches. When Obama thinks for himself, what comes out of his mouth?

Given the complete and utter inate drivel that Bush has managed to spout over the past 8 years, don't you think that your point with this is kind of moot?

The term "Bushism" didn't come about for nothing, did it?

Originally posted by neformore
Given the complete and utter inate drivel that Bush has managed to spout over the past 8 years, don't you think that your point with this is kind of moot?

The term "Bushism" didn't come about for nothing, did it?

While I'm not defending some of the more extreme comments revolving around Obama, I think when the best defense you have for a candidate is "Bush did it too, so it's a draw," it says something about the quality of the candidate(s).

[edit on 29-5-2008 by _Del_]

Obama is making glaring mistakes, at least one a week now for awhile. From Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko and 57 states to inconsistant military records on his Grandpa and Great Uncle etc.

It shows his inexperience and that of his advisors are really coming into focus the closer we move to November 4th.

It's all a sham, and he takes no real stand on the issues (voted "present" on over 120 issues that called for votes).

He is different from week to week. One week he claims Israel is a "constant sore in the ME" and the next week claims he totally supports Israel. What a flip-flopper, so much that he is making John Kerry look stable and that is just bad.




[edit on 29-5-2008 by jetxnet]

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by jamie83
Obama's beliefs, values, and decision making criteria are more important than issues.

No they're not. End of discussion.

If the issues are more important than the man's values and beliefs, then what the hell do we need Obama for? It isn't like his policies are some ground-breaking, revolutionary solutions that nobody has ever thought of before.

But to be fair, name one policy that Obama thought of that's unique, and makes him worth voting for.

Ok , they want to discuss the issues?

Barack Obama:
- Voted for the patriot act (after lying and said he wouldn't)
- Voted to continue funding Iraq war several times
- Supports a national ID card
- Supports increasing size of federal government
- Voted yes on the FEMA bill which gives FEMA more power
- Votes yes on immigration reform bill
- Said he would invade Iran
- Supports fighting on Israel's behalf
- Voted yes on the Homeland Security Grant Program Amendment

Yeahp, that about says it all. The 10 issues out of the hundreds he did vote on mean a bigger government and less rights.

One would have to believe he is a typical Marxist, oh wait .., he is!

Can there be a corrrelation between smoking and doing a good job in the White House. I think you stumbled on to something.

With the exception of JFK from your list, each President either did nothing or substantial damage to the country (i.e. Johnson, Clinton etc.) in terms of National Security or otherwise.

You should study that further, it may make for a good article in Newsweek.

Originally posted by AgentStovkowski

Now tell me which one of those presidents preferred cocaine and marijuana?

How should I know what they preferred?
That wasn't the point I was addressing...I was addressing the photo of him smoking that was placed to show he would not be a good President. When in fact most Presidents did smoke.

Do you have one of him doing coke and smoking weed too? If so please post them.

Obama admits to using drugs in the past. Most people have tried them. Again this makes him more human than not and I'm not throwing stones in a glass-house nor do I expect my President to have been conceived by immaculate conception and never having done a single thing wrong or self destructive in their personal life. I have, have you? More importantly do you think all of our Presidents have never made youthful blunders? If so this is a very naive take not only on Presidents but humans in general.

If he is on coke and weed presently, he certainly holds it together on camera more than the goofy friends I had in college would, and they were always stoned. I've seen people on drugs...not recreational but serious habits. He doesn't appear to be one of them.

Bush has had issues with alcohol in the past...but claims to have overcome that.
I accept this and still think he was a lousy President. If he was STILL on alcohol (and drugs some have claimed) like he was in his early years that would make a lot more sense than a sober person making the decisions he has as President.

- Lee

he is on coke and weed presently, he certainly holds it together on camera more than the goofy friends I had in college would

This is true, he even got the number of states correct. NOT! To be an American and get the number states wrong, you'd have to be smoking something. You can't even get this wrong in your sleep, much-less awake and on Camera.

Originally posted by AgentStovkowski
Ok , they want to discuss the issues?

You're the one that posted a photo as evidence of potential bad leadership.
That is not discussing the issue either is it?

We are not enemies or aliens just people with different views that political hacks use to divide us and elevate themselves to positions of power. They maintain it by feeding those divisions and having us attacking each other.

Don't fall for the "they" game when it turns out "we" are all getting screwed.

- Lee

Originally posted by jetxnet
This is true, he even got the number of states correct. NOT! To be an American and get the number states wrong, you'd have to be smoking something. You can't even get this wrong in your sleep, much-less awake and on Camera.

Heh...okay that proves he's on drugs then. lol.

Hillary is too with her sniper fire stories as well as McCain erroneously stating that al-Qaeda is training in Iran. Then again I personally don't know what it's like to campaign year-round like you must. I am sure it is taxing on the mind and body.

Eh..it's late and this is not really going anywhere so I'll just stop here.

- Lee

Originally posted by _Del_
While I'm not defending some of the more extreme comments revolving around Obama, I think when the best defense you have for a candidate is "Bush did it too, so it's a draw," it says something about the quality of the candidate(s).

Oh - don't get me wrong - I'm English so I'm not going to be voting on this one - I'm not defending the candidate.

The point I was making is that its outright hypocrisy for anyone who voted for Bush or seeks to defend his presidency to try and pick holes in this kind of thing, because the man set the benchmark of idiocy for others to follow.

At least those stories of McCain and Hillary you sited have some credibility. How do you know Al Qaeda isn't training in Iran or getting funding and weapons from Iran? It doesn't take much to think that this would be the case in leui recent findings.

So that is why Obama got the states wrong, he was tired and wore down from campaigning all year round. Of course! It makes sense.