non-flame questions to liberal americans

reply to post by Lokey13


I don't blame the CIA either. Liberals do

Liberals say "kill CIA" on iraq

and "YAHHHH CIA" on Iran

They're either a bad organization or they're not. Stop Flip Flopping and decide where you stand.

If you agree with me today in my home, but call me a lying bastard tomorrow in my neighbors home, im going to find out about it.

Stand your ground for what you believe in. Even if its in opposition to what i believe in, but for God sakes, STOP FLIP FLOPPING and then denying it.

so....your not interesting in discussing the questions you posed then, just slamming liberals!!!! man, i'm shocked, and i trusted you

dang conservatives, when will we ever learn that they always have a secret agenda.

reply to post by pieman


We are discussing the questions.

And its not liberal bashing...

"bashing" you is insulting you and calling you playground names.

me posting facts and replaying what liberals have said to back up my case is not bashing.

Dont tuck tail and run when things are turning in my favor. its just starting to get fun here!!!!!!!


The difference?

*snip*

*****What im doing*********
Getting you to bash yourselves. You say "liberals didtn do that, liberals dont think that" and i rebuttal with examples to prove my case

Then you say "....we're talking about the questions!!! NOT ABOUT LIBERALS!!!"

ROTFLMAO

it makes no sense that you woudl respond with that comment.

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

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[edit on 31-5-2008 by GAOTU789]

Originally posted by ybab hsur
Echo3Foxtrot, its refreshing to see other people from reality here in the twilight zone....


There is a very wise saying (found Here if you need reference material. it says

All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best

So i beg you to listen to me and put aside your blind hate for Bush and conservative values.

I know this question is not directed toward me but I thought I'd interject anyway. Just so you know my position, I used to like Bush during his first term. I no longer do because of his policies to ignore the Constitution. I don't necessarily have a problem with conservative values as a whole, just the Bush administration.

Is it more simple to say that there was a gigantic conspiracy from 9/11 so that we could invade Afghanistan to set a foothold in the middle east (which....we already had to begin with, hello Israel

)

Although I think the Bush administration is full of crooks, I don't believe they had anything to do with 9/11.

What sounds more "logical"?

A group of terrorist bastards who hate you, me, and everyone around us decide to hijack a plane and show us our frailness. We retaliate, are met with resistance, find out that Saddam (bording country..) has WMD's from intelligence agencies from all around the world....so we decide to attack after the warnings are issued.....Saddam delays so he can remove his weapons, and then the iraqi conflict beings. Liberals see their chance at the whtie house, because, quite frankly, if Bush comes out a hero in this, liberalism is dead for a few decades. So bash bush and Flip flop and continue to make it up as you go along.

Keep in mind that the main source of information regarding Iraqs WMD's came from one person, ironically code named CURVEBALL, who was proven unreliable in the past.



[edit on 29-5-2008 by jfj123]

reply to post by jfj123




im finally getting some real headway here! Thank you for your common sense reply My only qualm with your response is your last statement about the source of the WMD's.

This is how i think of it.

little Johnny is a rebel. he hangs out late, has been arrested for drinking underage and talks bakc to his parents. He's a bully at school, and not too many peopl elike him.
His mom and dad decide to ask little Johnny if they can look through his room because they caught wind from little billie's mom and dad they little johnny may be smoking *whisper* marijuana */end whisper*

Little johnny has two possible reactions
1.) he says "Go ahead, there's nothing in there." he's pissed that his parents would insinuate such a proposterous thing, but knows the serious ramifcations if he fights it out of spite

or

2.) he says "screw you, thats MY room, and your'e not allowed in there" Because he's actually hiding *whisper* marijuana */end whipser* in his sock drawer.

His parents decide to wait a few days, and when they go into his room they find no weed.

GEE I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO IT!?!?!?!
Could be he moved it to a freinds house? Or maybe he flushed it down the toilet?

IF you wanna critisize the bush administration for anything - critisize them for giving Saddam too much time to get rid of his weapons. Because who the hell knows who has them now? maybe Iran?

Time will tell.

And i can't wait to come back here when time reveals it, and say "i told ya so"

REMEMBER THE RUSH BABY .... BABy......




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[edit on 31-5-2008 by GAOTU789]

reply to post by ybab hsur


Did I flip flop or something? I don't think your reply had anything to do with my post since I stated I'm not a liberal. I stand by my country good or bad there is nothing else, cause in the end I'm seen as an american by the rest of the world. I think that the leader of Iran is very wrong for being prejudice but I also think that Isreal starts alot of wars because they can't share, I personally think Isreal should be whiped out because they are genociding pakistan's people.

[edit on 29-5-2008 by Lokey13]

Arggg sorry I answered the questions but for some reason they went boom when i hit the post button....... will try again

Originally posted by ybab hsur
i am not flaming you - so do not flame me.

I am a conservative, i have been having other debates in other forums on other topics, and i have come up with a list of questions that the people i've been debating with refuse to, or cannot, answer. Again - no flames.

1.) Give me ample examples of which rights of yours have been stripped by bush since 9/11

2.) How is Iran's president ahmenijad (sp?) not practicing hate speech when he's talking about jews

3.) Except for ending Slavery, Nazism, Facism, and Communism.....
WAR HASNT SOLVED ANYTHING

reply to post by Lokey13


Sorry Lokey - i didnt see your post (i get pretty worked up on this side of the keyboard, i need to improve my typing efficiency so i can pay more attentino to other thigns )

i agree with your idea that there should be no partisianship.

but there is. And there's nothing really we can do about it.

partisianship is not something tangible, its a grouping of ideals and beliefs.

Both parties lie their asses off to get into power. Repubs and Dems, Conservs and Libs. Nobody can argue that, or atleast no intelligent person can.

But, if you choose to partake in politics, you gota figure out which lies do the greater good?
if you believe that the world lied about WMD's to remove saddamn, fine. Didnt removing Saddam do a good thing?

But if you look through the liberal spectrum - lying about our troops, lying about our country, revealing secret troop locations on a finger drawn map in the sand for the entire world to see
just so you can prove conservatives are wrong?
Liberal lies hurt our country
Conservative lies are for our country

Not gona get anywhere in today's world without lying.
and you're lying to yourself if you think im the liar.

Originally posted by AnOldFriend
Arggg sorry I answered the questions but for some reason they went boom when i hit the post button....... will try again

[edit on 29-5-2008 by AnOldFriend]

that must be my anti-liberal software kicking in

just kidding.

But seriously - how can you argue with my last 3 posts most of all?

If you dont like bush as a person, fine. But dont blindly hate him to the point that you become a tool for terrorists to exploit.

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

The source for the WMD's was admitted by the Bush administration. That's where I got the codename for the individual involved.

reply to post by ybab hsur


meh, you asked for answers to your questions. i don't really give a crap what this guy or that guy said, i can only answer for me, which is what you asked for. (well technically not me, but there ya go, its an open forum) you didn't ask me to talk about politicians in the first place, you said you wanted to get answers to questions you've posed that have never been satisfactorily answered.

Q:is bush removing rights A:weather or not he removes or ignores americans rights, he ignores non-americans human rights. that is immoral any way you cut it.
Q:has war solved anything A: no, all the items in your signature exist
Q:did saddam ever have WMD A:no evidence to suggest it
Q:were inspectors in iraq A:yes
Q:is the iranian pres anti-semetic A:undoubtedly
Q:is it any of your business A:are you jewish?
Q:is it americas business A:not really
Q:why is the CIA ridiculled when its wrong and applauded when its right A: really, you need an answer to that?

so, there's my answers, plainly and clearly.
i'ld like you to discuss them in more detail with me, if you wish. i wanted to discuss them when i read your post. thats why i replied in the first place.
i found your switch to the old flip flop routine funny, so i commented to try to grab your attention and draw you back to a discussion you claimed to want, i hope you do return to it.

reply to post by jfj123



the point i was trying to make is that this screwball guy wasnt the only source.

israel
great britain
russia


all had intelligence that suggested saddam had WMD's

The american people believed it
the american media believed it
the united nations believed it
wouldnt bush had been blasted if he had not believed it?

Originally posted by ybab hsur
reply to post by jfj123

 

the point i was trying to make is that this screwball guy wasnt the only source.

israel
great britain
russia


all had intelligence that suggested saddam had WMD's

The american people believed it
the american media believed it
the united nations believed it
wouldnt bush had been blasted if he had not believed it?

According to the Bush administration, he was the MAIN source. I never said he was the only source.
The american people believed it because bush said he had intelligence to prove it.
The american media believed it because bush said he had intelligence to prove it.
the united nations believed it because bush said he had intelligence to prove it.
wouldnt bush had been blasted if he had not believed it? NO, it's called lying.

Even MI6 had doubts about the intelligence but were told to ignore them and defer to the US intelligence.

Originally posted by ybab hsur

Originally posted by AnOldFriend
Arggg sorry I answered the questions but for some reason they went boom when i hit the post button....... will try again

[edit on 29-5-2008 by AnOldFriend]

that must be my anti-liberal software kicking in

just kidding.

But seriously - how can you argue with my last 3 posts most of all?

If you dont like bush as a person, fine. But dont blindly hate him to the point that you become a tool for terrorists to exploit.

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

Perhaps it is set to overkill?

I was only replying to your first set of questions, havent read the whole thread yet

Anyway, my post ^^^^^ up there is finally working properly.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by ybab hsur

 

Q:is bush removing rights A:weather or not he removes or ignores americans rights, he ignores non-americans human rights. that is immoral any way you cut it.
Q:has war solved anything A: no, all the items in your signature exist
Q:did saddam ever have WMD A:no evidence to suggest it
Q:were inspectors in iraq A:yes
Q:is the iranian pres anti-semetic A:undoubtedly
Q:is it any of your business A:are you jewish?
Q:is it americas business A:not really
Q:why is the CIA ridiculled when its wrong and applauded when its right A: really, you need an answer to that?

oh my dear God....i truely hope you are just trying to ruffle my feathers and you really dont believe that garbage. But if you do - allow me to put on my boots really fast before i take this on.....
....
........
There we go - the is gettin deep in here, so i thought i better put them on.

Q:has war solved anything A: no, all the items in your signature exist
you cannot seriously tell me that you dont believe war stopped those ideologies from ruining this planet? Nazi'sm as an idea still exists, yes, this is true, anyone who's seen American History X can vauge for that. But the nazi regime is gone.
Communism, still exists. But no longer threatens america
Facims - same thing
Slavery? Well, obviously myself and others here have different definitions of slavery (mine coming from the websters dictionary) but regardless of that - there "aint no mure slave oweners on dem dere cotton farms makin black folk do der work" If we hadnt gone to war over it - Black people would still be slaves.

Q:did saddam ever have WMD A:no evidence to suggest it
Ok. I agree with you that in RETROSPECT, there was no evidence. hindsight is always 20/20. But at the time, (re-read alot of my posts here) the entire world believed Saddam did. Hell, even so much in fact, that even if Saddam didnt have them, he would believe that he did.


Q:were inspectors in iraq A:yes
Uhm. No. Else we never would have invaded. Remember the declaration issued to Saddam? Of course not, you were probably watching MSNBC

Q:is the iranian pres anti-semetic A:undoubtedly
Q:is it any of your business A:are you jewish?
Q:is it americas business A:not really


It really is hard for me to form my words in a non-offesnive manner with that sort of thinking on this topic.....but ill try.
Was hitler anti-semetic = yes
Was hitler americas probelm = yes
was hitler the worlds problem = yes

Explain to me the diff between hitler and Ahmenijad in a way that excludes historical stigmas. Hitler was anti semetic. So is Ahmeijdad (i gave up trying to spell it)
hitler had an entire country at his back. So does ahmenijad

hitler was able to operate under the guise of "its not our problem"
As ahmenijad is clearly starting to do. Wanna learn from history? Learn from the jews.

Q:why is the CIA ridiculled when its wrong and applauded when its right A: really, you need an answer to that?
But "right and wrong" are in the eye of the beholder. Nobody knows if CIA is right about Iran. The only way you'll be able to prove it is if Iran attacks. In which case the CIA would ahve been wrong about Iran. But by the time they attack, its too #ing late.

Im saying liberal minded people use the CIA when it besuits them, and thrwos them away when their reports go against blindly hating bush.
nothign more.


Edit : finally got the damn "color=" crap sorted out

i dont get it. When i "preview post" all of my answers come up in black text

when i "edit post" they're gray again
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

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[edit on 31-5-2008 by GAOTU789]

reply to post by AnOldFriend

2) Al I know is what I have heard or read from other people so i don't know.

3) War Hasn't solved anything, war only puts an end to "radical ideologies." umm...thank you for proving my point for me. LOL. Radical ideologies are the basis for every war that has ever been waged on this planet.

4) Nope only going with what you agree with, has little to do with what "the other side" thinks.

5) Probably for the same reason I don't let the police search my care based on false information. What reason?????

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

Q:is bush removing rights A:weather or not he removes or ignores americans rights, he ignores non-americans human rights. that is immoral any way you cut it.
Q:has war solved anything A: no, all the items in your signature exist
Q:did saddam ever have WMD A:no evidence to suggest it
Q:were inspectors in iraq A:yes
Q:is the iranian pres anti-semetic A:undoubtedly
Q:is it any of your business A:are you jewish?
Q:is it americas business A:not really
Q:why is the CIA ridiculled when its wrong and applauded when its right A: really, you need an answer to that?

Oh my sweet tator pie in grnadma Moses' straw hat! Why didn't I see it this way! Screw being conservative! The liberals have all the answers!

Where exactly is Bush removing human rights at? I haven't seen anything of the sort. If you show me a valid example, I will admit defeat on that part.

But those items in his signature are not even a mere threat as they once were. We neutralized those problems through means of war. Don't make it seem that those who fought and died did it for nothing.

The evidence wasn't there because he was stalling the UN long enough to dispose of it. Doesn't that register as odd why he would tell them no for so long to finally say ok come on in! Oh! Look! No WMDs! Bye now! That sounds like a logical answer there. Makes a lot of sence to me.

Yeah, the inspectors finally got in AFTER Saddam said ok which was AFTER he got rid of the WMDs.

Whether you like it or not, we tend to take the role of world police because no one else will do it. I take pride in knowing I'm part of the military force that is able to handle this kind of stuff. You want to know something? Soon he starts the genocide of the Jewish people, then he gets trigger happy and starts invading other countries, game over man, he's done.

Originally posted by ybab hsur
reply to post by AnOldFriend

 

2) Al I know is what I have heard or read from other people so i don't know.

3) War Hasn't solved anything, war only puts an end to "radical ideologies." umm...thank you for proving my point for me. LOL. Radical ideologies are the basis for every war that has ever been waged on this planet.

4) Nope only going with what you agree with, has little to do with what "the other side" thinks.

5) Probably for the same reason I don't let the police search my care based on false information. What reason?????

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

Yes "radical ideologies" are, however what is radical to you may not be to some. Or, these "radical ideologies" that have been put to sleep stem from what those people might have thought to be "radical ideologies." The victor wins more then the war.

The reason is because they have no bussiness messing up my car or even being in my car based on false information. Whether I have anything in my car that is illegal or not is beside the point.

reply to post by AnOldFriend


That's where you and I disagree

the fac tthat they had "credible" evidence that you may have been doing some illegal shoudl be enough reason for you to want to disprove the notion.

I've never been "illegally" searched. Not one #ing time.

I've been searched - sure - but i have enough things to worry about other than "oh no, will they find anything illegal on me that i DONT HAVE?!"



and your reponse on about radical ideologies....what are you trying to get at? You're still proving me right... I mean if thats your intentinos, great! But somehow i dont think it is.

We think Iran has radical ideologies. We think Iraq did too. We go to war over it.
....what are you getting at? That it shouldnt be that way?

Well, okay, ill give you that. But your'e living in a fantasy world, because it is that way

its that way for saddam, its that way for Ahmenijad, its that way for Bush and Parliament too.

If everyone acts in the same mannerisms, then obviously thats the way things are. Instead of happy dreams, why not try realistic expectations? Iran wants to kill you.
bush wants to kill Iran.

Let them duke it out, and *gasp* you'll live.

What a novel idea.


[edit on 29-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

1. I have to apply for a permit to protest in front of the Houses of Parliment and can be arrested for protesting outside No.10 with asking first and stating the reason. (Not that I've tried).

2. Iran's president is doing what is called "egging you on". He's saying "I dare you." and "Just you try it."

Of course if you check the WW2 stats below you will see that modern warfare is the most deadly yet. You'll also notice that the allied powers lost almost double that of the Axis powers - we pretty much only won WW2 by brute force and sheer overwhelming numbers. If you do you attack Iran (for whatever contrived reason), if they put up a fight you'll have no choice but to nuke them. Because you'll need a lot more people than you are prepared to send to Iraq to beat them down. You'll loose 10s of thousands of troops and that will be politically devisive. You'll probably have to bring back conscription to cover the numbers. (Currently avoided in Iraq by employing private mercenaries- who are becoming VERY rich with your tax dollars).

3.) Hmm, war doesn't solve ANYTHING it just changes things around a bit. Not much of anything ACTUALLY solved something.
Errr... vietnam
Errr... Korean war
Errr... Russia...the "evil" communist state finally brought to its economic knees resulting in a lot of misery and poverty, courtesy of the US foreign policy.
According to stats on Wikipedia : world war 2 stats
Russia lost the most people (military and civilian) in WW2. So um, they need to be given more credit for their contribution and the UK & US less.

Errr...we invented and enjoyed the fruits of slavery (and in a way it still exists in the third world where all our cheap goods are made for huge profits by people paid peanuts. Yes, they could get themselves out of poverty... if only we'd let them. The "free market" is a lie.)
Errr ...fascism and nazism are alive and well too. Waste of time wars I think. (Make nice big pots of money for rich people though.) The US encourages and supports dictators and has been caught trying to overthrow democratically elected leaders and replacing them with despots who would go along with their foreign policies. They even trained these people how to torture dissenters. See google video: The War on Democracy.

4. I don't think that is correct. If you follow the TV coverage, Iraq was not a threat or considered a threat until Bush came to power. There was no evidence of any WMDs. (And no, chem weapons without long range missiles really shouldn't be considered a WMD).

5. Well after being best mates with the worlds policeman and then suddenly being dropped like a hot potato, etc, etc, he decided he'd give you a hard time giving you what you wanted. He always was a bit of an awkward chap.

Just because you are a conservative it doesn't mean you have to force yourself to be proud of your government or think that the world actually works properly or that world economics are fair or there is such a thing as the "free market". Or balony like the "market decides"...