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How Long Do You think We Have?

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posted on May, 30 2008 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by worldwatcher
 

worldwatcher,

I think it's a topic that's on a lot of peoples minds right now. It simply a matter of how openly they wish to discuss it. I for one hope it never comes to pass, but then again I want to be prepared in the event that it does.

Hopefully the information generated from these posts will be of use to those considering such a possibilty and wish to prepare themselves. You never know what seemingly insignificant piece of information may be useful to you in the future.

I've been told many things in my life by much wiser people that I thought useless, only to find out later they were quite valuable.

Thanks for the reply.


Lloyd

[edit on 5/30/08 by LLoyd45]




posted on May, 30 2008 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by Atlantican
 
Great post Atlantican! This is the type of information that will be most useful. Keep up the good work.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by Dar Kuma
Lloyd
In the reality over here you cant even defend yourself as the criminals have more rights than you do.
Don't feel alone.. Even though we're allowed firearms, if you use them you must be prepared to face the possible consequences.

The link I provided for cosmic summed up self protection best:


Remember, when seconds matter, the police are minutes away. And it’s lighter to carry around a gun than to carry around a police officer. The police are never around when you need them; their primary job now is clean-up and forensics. They appear after the crime is over (and you’re wounded or dead) to investigate what happened. Our lawmakers don’t seem to understand this fact. The police are good for lots of things, protection from violent crime isn’t one of them. Our lawmakers will neither provide each of us with our own personal police officer 24/7 nor allow us to protect ourselves and something will give at some point, until then, we still need to do what we can to protect ourselves - and part that now means being willing to accept the current consequences for protecting ourselves.


Link



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra
I just wanted to address this right quick, don't re-use your old milk jugs to store water. Proteins from the milk leech into the plastic and feed bacteria in the water when you fill it, making any long-term storage (weeks or more) a dangerous haven for microbes and such in a milk jug. Same goes for fruit juice containers. You can recycle them in other ways, just don't use them to store water. Instead, use 2-liter soda bottles, as those lack the proteins milk and juice have.


First off, great post as usual thelibra. It's full of good advice and information!
I did want to address the issue of recycling milk jugs for water storage though. As long as you clean them properly, they're just as safe as soda bottles and will hold almost twice as much.


Containers That Can be Used for Water Storage

Food-grade plastic or glass containers are suitable for storing water. One-, three- and five-gallon water containers can be purchased from most outdoor or hardware stores. Any plastic or glass container that previously held food or beverages such as 2-liter soda bottles or water, juice, punch or milk jugs, also may be used. Stainless steel can be used to store water which has not been or will not be treated with chlorine; chlorine is corrosive to most metals.

Clean used containers and lids with hot soapy water. Once the containers have been thoroughly cleaned, rinse them with water and sanitize the containers and lids by rinsing them with a solution of 1 tablespoon chlorine bleach per gallon of water. Leave the containers wet for two minutes, then rinse them again with water. Remember to remove the paper or plastic lid liners before washing the lids. It is very difficult to effectively remove all residue from many containers, so carefully clean hard-to-reach places like the handles of milk jugs. To sanitize stainless steel containers, place the container in boiling water for 10 minutes. Never use containers that previously held chemicals.


Emergency Water Storage

How to Store Water



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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Apocalyptic scenarios:
www.exitmundi.nl...

If you can find it, the 70's book, "Lucifer's Hammer", by Larry Niven, is good. It addresses what could happen in a really bad time. Has some great ideas for setting up retreats and what things are needed.



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45
I did want to address the issue of recycling milk jugs for water storage though. As long as you clean them properly, they're just as safe as soda bottles and will hold almost twice as much.


Well, according to FEMA, I'm afraid that assumption is incorrect.



If you decide to re-use storage containers, choose two-liter plastic
soft drink bottles – not plastic jugs or cardboard containers that
have had milk or fruit juice in them
. The reason is that milk
protein and fruit sugars cannot be adequately removed from these
containers and provide an environment for bacterial growth when
water is stored in them.


Of course, I'll grant that FEMA didn't exactly show itself as being very reliable during Katrina, but when it comes to conflicting advice on water storage, I'll err on the side of caution.

Now, if there was a mass power outage and I knew the water tower would drain without a pump real soon, I'd be using whatever container I could find, including milk jugs, jelly jars, and anything that could hold water, because you never know when fresh water will once again be available.

However, if you are in a time of relative peace, and storing water for long-term preparedness, your safest bet is not to use milk or juice containers.

[edit on 5/30/2008 by thelibra]



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by thelibra
 
Obviously there's some disagreement on the topic. I've used them for years without any harmful effects, and so have many of my neighbors.

As you've said though, it's better to err on the side of caution. Thanks for the information.


[edit on 5/30/08 by LLoyd45]



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45
Obviously there's some disagreement on the topic. I've used them for years without any harmful effects, and so have many of my neighbors.


Yeah, I figure it's probably something like the "don't eat chicken leftovers after 2 days" rule. If the chicken was thoroughly cooked enough and prepared properly there's a pretty good chance eating it on day 3 won't get you sick. But it's one of those things that's all too easy to not do properly. FEMA may have been taking the "lowest common denominator" into effect when writing their guide. You know, the sort who'd just rinse the bottle out once and be done with it.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by Illahee
 


Mother nature is formidable but in the short term it will be rioting minorities that will pose the greatest threat. Next will be gangs of survivors.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by LLoyd45
 



"" How Long Do You think We Have? "

Hard to say....but as I was reading this, it occurred to me that NOAH, if he were alive today, would be considered a survivalist by the pidgeon holers and controllers of the world.



And the lack of interest only proves the point that people haven't got a clue, just like the Bible said. In fact I think the quote is, " people would be willfully ignorant "

All things are coming to pass, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, flooding, food shortages, weird diseases....just think about how many people don't even give it a second thought!...as if it were normal!

a few months, to a few years, very hard to tell.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by toasted
All things are coming to pass, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, flooding, food shortages, weird diseases....just think about how many people don't even give it a second thought!...as if it were normal!


Ummm... everything you listed has been perfectly normal since pretty much the existence of weather and life on this planet. It is these very hardships, and more, that have spurred life on to evolve into more and more intelligent and complex beings, especially humankind.

We didn't invent things because it was fun to invent, survivalists invented them to fill a pre-existing need.

It gets cold sometimes: man invents clothes. It's very hard to find food in winter: man learns food storage. Sometimes it rains so hard it floods: man builds houses on poles and developes the concept of a floodplain to plant in. Disease spreads across the land: man conceives of quarentine to stop it, and later vaccines, antibiotics, etc. A hurricane devastates an entire coastal city: man invents the seawall, and breakwaters. Earthquakes level another city, man invents new building techniques and foundations. The food supply can't meet demand: man invents motorized farm equipment and hybrid foodstocks.

The disasters we are presently experiencing are absolutely nothing new. They are the same disasters that killed people by the thousands, and in at least one case, possibly millions, for all of Earth's history. Each step of the way, survivalists have attempted to advance mankind one step forward in dealing with the disaster by addressing that which has not happened yet. It is the ability to predict and imagine and prepare against the next disaster that put homo sapiens in the lead.

The difference between how and, say, 100 years ago, is media coverage, technology and arguably, climate change. Even in my childhood, you just didn't hear about a natural disaster happening anywhere on the news unless it was something that killed so many people the world could not ignore it. Even then, it might only merit a five second mention because no one had any hard facts, no reporters in the area, no photos or video, and you simply wouldn't know anything about it unless National Geographic covered it in a magazine several months later, and by then it was too late to care. This wasn't some ancient bygone age of yore; it was 30 years ago. We just didn't have the global reporting, the WWW, the 24/7 news stations having to fill the gaping maw of time with any news no matter how inconsequential.

Nowadays, if some low-ranking police officer took a bribe in a third-world country, we hear about it alongside roughly 9999 other pieces of newsbites per day that have a zero-to-negligable effect on our lives. In so much competition for for our attention, every day there must be something blown up to make it seem like it is of global import, and a portent of doom for all, lest we not pay attention to their advertisers while waiting to hear the full story "in just a few moments".

So that annual mudslide, that killed one person, the one that wipes out that trailer park every single damn year, and the people who keep moving back into that river valley afterward, appearing afterward with tears in their eyes, and everything they own buried under 20 feet of silt, crying out to the camera that they just can't understand how this happened, is then made out into a worldwide disaster, the area is declared a Federal Emergency area, Awareness Campaigns are briefly started, and we help the community rebuild its lovely city...right there on the riverbank, while Fox speculates if the mudslide were actually a terrorist attack of some sort.

Until tomorrow, when the same thing will happen again, in some other part of the world, and some relatively normal, minor event will be made into the Blockbuster of the Day, and the newscasters drill one single message into our heads over and over: How could this have ever happened???

My little rant here is not to belittle the importance of being prepared, or to denigrate the lives lost to these daily disasters, but rather to explain that these are not strange and crazy times we live in, they are the norm. We are only more vigorously informed about them than ever before. And it is for precisely that reason that more and more people are becoming interested in survival. It's not that a Survivalist Mentality was unnecessary before, it is that more people are being convinced of its veracity.



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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Don't get me wrong, I love ATS, and spend several hours a day here, but the survival board seems to be one of the weakest boards. I don't quite understand why that is when so many threads at ATS are gloom & doom discussions.

There are several survival forums out there with many more participants and plenty of tips. A couple of the good ones are:

Prepping tips & priority preps at www.avianflutalk.com...

The prep room at www.curevents.com...



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 06:55 AM
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Haven't been here in a few days..... a good read getting caught up. I just finished installing a battery/solar water pump. We currently still have the old AC-powered pump on line, but have plumbed the new pump in with a myriad of valves such that when the power is out, I can go and turn four valves, and the DC pump will restore water pressure. I'm also using this to draw water from the well (300 feet of trenching through rocks and coconut roots to lay the piping - whoof) for watering the garden, and running the house, except for drinking and cooking. Drinking and cooking water comes from collected rainwater which is stored in concrete cisterns.

This gets back to my primary push -- water. On this wee island, many folks consider a case of bottled water to be plenty for emergency purposes. Even after Hurricane Ivan went through here and wrecked the main island. You can buy water plastic water storage vessels for about $1.00/gallon USD. If you have larger than, say 10 gallon containers, you need some way to access the water. From www.northerntool.com, you can get a 12V water pump pretty cheaply..... $50 - $100. Combine that with a 5W solar trickle charger and a battery (in our case, a wet cell deep cycle) and you have a reliable way to pump water. This little array cost us about $350 USD, and will pay for itself in power savings in about 4 months. It will continue to pay for years after that.

Something I hear a lot this time of year..... "Sooooooo, all ready for hurricane season?" My usual response is to indicate that I am, and ask the question back, whereupon the person often laments the high cost of things, and to fret about how a "bad" hurricane might kill the economy. I'm always amazed at how when a hurricane threatens us -- and I've seen this for the last 13 years -- the very same folks who have told me they can't afford to stock up, are in the store, part of the feeding frenzy, buying stuff and much of it is water!! Water, that had they just taken a little time, earlier on, could have been steralized and set aside. It boggles my mind. Does this sound like I feel superior? Not at all. I feel adequately stocked and prepared to meet known threats. I can't share it if I don't have it.

Cheers



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 08:06 AM
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Something I have to consider is that I am in the military, so what do I do if it all goes down? What am I to do for my family because that comes first before the military or the government. So with that said I have enough food for 2 months and a power generator, water purifier and what not. But what am I to do if martial law is declared? Because I am of the opinion that America is in for a big downturn and soon. But I’m stationed in the Caribbean on a bay right now so news from home is sparse at best all we get is cnn here unless we pay 60 USD a month for cable...Wicked lame. and not much I can do if it happins and im here.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 09:08 PM
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Some news that I thought folks might like to know.

3 different persons (friends of mine) in three different states left yesterday morning to canvas pawn shops looking for used military style rifles-semi autos-AK, AR,sks and similar styles. Two were shopping for themselves and the other was scouting for the two.

In total they visited 19 pawn shops in the three states and found the following:

1. A post ban AR being passed off as preban in poor condition for $699.
2. A beat up sks in very poor condition for $229.
3. a single 10/22 used beat up with a scope for 199.

Out of 19 pawn shops the only ones they found besides bolt action and pumps.

You can call this the "used gun index" The supply of used firearms has dried up. At least in the west. You will probably need to attend a gun show to find much of anything in the way of used guns now.




Now aside from all that in the last week I was told without any prompting by a doctor, a sales rep and a graphics student that they all intended on buying guns in the next month. After they revealed the intent to purchase something none of them had owned before in their lives, the only common denominator seemed to be a 'bad feeling about the near future' Theres just no sugar coating this turd. These people related it was a gut feeling urging them to do so. Now I'm kind of wondering if the old bolt action plan of mine was a bit weak from the start.......

Terrifies me more than anything is so many people that have no experience at all buying them. I'm a little unsettled by that.




[edit on 25-6-2008 by Illahee]



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Illahee
 
They will all most likely be dead within a week when TSHTF. Just make sure your in a safe place till then.




posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 12:27 AM
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I live an Airstream trailer so I'm fairly mobile already. I have 3 bugout sites from my current location, at 100miles 200 miles and if necessary 300 miles. My brother is already living at my 300 mile bugout site.

Bottom line survival is keeping more air, water and calories in your body than your daily output. Keeping out poisons, harmful bacteria and viruses are your next priority. Avoiding conflict/combat is always smart but you should never be shy about avoiding enslavement and capture. Prisoners and slaves usually have pretty short life spans.

Everyone rant's and rave's about gun seizure in the US but I think it's just the silliest and stupidest thing to worry about. There's no way any military and police force could possible rid the US citizenry of all their guns. There is also the fact that there are way too many folks out there who know how to make guns and ammo.

The practical matter boils down to water, shelter and food.

Water: always have some means to filter and purify any water you find other than rainwater or water from a well that you know is good.

Shelter: be practical. The simpler the better. Your aim should be to avoid temperature extremes. You should try to setup your shelter near a water source but not on it.

Food: unless you live in a very cold climate, I think the 6-months supply is simply too expensive and cumbersome for most folks to manage. 3-4 months is far more practical if your in a permanent settlement, 3-4 days if you're on your own and mobile. In hot climates, your should forage, hunt or work in the morning and in the evening and then hole up during the day. Keeping hydrated is your main concern in hot weather. During cold weather, keeping dry and warm are your primary concerns. Forage/hunt/work during clear weather.

Speaking of weather, learn how read the sky if there's a total collapse and there's no longer a broadcasted forecast.

These are my basics of survival. There are more ways to get these basics than anyone could possibly put on a single book but you really should learn about how to find/get these resources in the area that you plan on surviving in.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 04:44 AM
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Should I even stock up on weapons, food, tools and other stuff or is it just a waste of money and nothing will ever happen, or if I did woulden't it be best to have just one back pack of usefull stuff because living in a populated area there's a good chance I would have to quickly abandon my home.

Thing's in my pack would be
Dry/canned food w. can opener
Water Filter bottle
Hunting knives
Windup dynamo radio/flash light
waterproof sheet for quick shelter in the rain
Energy Bars
Lighters
Durable clothes that will last a long time.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by NeoSpace
 


NeoSpace, if you can I would add at a minimum a .22 rimfire rifle with at least 200 rounds of ammo. If I were in the UK or some other firearm restricted country, then a good recurve bow or a crossbow. If all else fails, spear and sling. I know of one enterprising hunter who can hit can hit birds off the power lines using a sling and old golf balls.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 08:53 AM
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How long do we have? I can't describe how nervous I got when I heard the news about No rth Korea being taken off the "terrorist" list this morning... There's something very fishy about this.

As far as how long we have, it depends on what "it" is. If the economy slowly declines and things get more and more expensive as we slip into a depression, then it could take a while. If it's a war-related "event", things could go to hell in a matter of days. Or it could be anywhere in between. And as someone said (sorry I didn't read the whole thread), it simply might not happen. We may pull out of it.

But I doubt it.

I think it's certainly going to start this year. Within a matter of months. I'm not basing that on anything, really.






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