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St. Lucie teacher has students vote on whether 5-year-old can stay in class

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posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


AH, apparently he broke up with me a while ago and I didn't even know it. Must have been my charming personality that he couldn't bare.



What the hells a pizzle any ways..

I find the story hilarious because it fits my idea of funny. If I saw it on TV I would have died laughing.. just imagine.. a bunch of 5 year olds saying what they don't like about the autistic kid and then voting him out of class! .. *sigh* but his feelings got hurt, so it's politically incorrect to hold my opinion.




posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


The Pizzle is Port St Lucie Florida. She pulled that from a local paper here so I kind of assumed she and I think JSOBecky is a she is from here.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck

What the hells a pizzle any ways..



I was wondering the same thing.

Apparently, wikipedia didnt really clarify it.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by 44soulslayer
 


HAHA.. omg, that was frikin hilarious .. I read up to "the old english word for --" and looked at the picture and thanked God I wasn't English.


It's also ebonics for Pistol apparently.


[edit on 5/28/2008 by Rockpuck]



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by 44soulslayer
 


HAHA.. omg, that was frikin hilarious .. I read up to "the old english word for --" and looked at the picture and thanked God I wasn't English.


It's also ebonics for Pistol apparently.


[edit on 5/28/2008 by Rockpuck]


LOL!!!!!! OMG I didnt think you would take it as English its a nickname for the locals here. Sigh.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by DalairTheGreat
Who care the kid is in kindergarten , he probably will be playing ball with the kids next week.

What happens to people in Kindgergarden can stay with them for their entire life. I highly doubt he'll be playing ball with a bunch of kids who completely rejected and humiliated him.


Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
how many people here actually remember that age?

I remember it very well. And the snotty mean kids in kindergarden were the same snotty mean ones in high school. Pathetic souls. Harmful and hurtful to all around them.


Originally posted by Rockpuck
I have to wonder what people are really upset about.

That a little child was completely rejected and humiliated for something that was out of his control and when there was no need for it.


Some seem to believe the kid should be in a normal class room setting

No. Special Education class - since he couldn't control himself.


even though it was so obvious the teacher was not trained for "special" students.

All teachers have enough training to know better than to humiliate and mentally harm a child that has a mental health situation. All teachers have enough training to know better than to be a bad example like that to the other children in class.

This is basic teacher training. 'Special training' isn't required.
It's common sense and common decency as well as common teacher behavior.

[edit on 5/28/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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The kid obviously deserved it.
By having the kids in the class vote him out is just another form of time out.
only it shows the rest of the class do not agree with his behavior.

You underestimate 5 year olds by saving its to much of the to make a decision.
Even at 5 if someone is messing with you, you figure you dont want them around you. the difference is 5 year old might throw something instead of asking.


Bottom line is the kid should have been voted out of the class anyway. If he was retarded and flopping up and down I would still vote him out.
Not because I am against his condition but because he is messing up my day.

Did you really get bullied that much in school that you have to defend this kindergarten kid?



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


A little rejection never maimed a kid for life. I'm so sick of hearing about how we got to watch out for everyone's feelings.. don't want them turning out all dysfunctional ..

When having no objection to your self what so ever creates, imo, far far worse implications ...

No different then the people screaming "don't spank your child!" when a good spanking of some peoples children would do the world, in the long run, much good.

Of course, now I am not talking about the kid in the story.. just ranting away.

But we are still friends FF aren't we...??


Just reminds me in chat today we where talking about Generation X, Y and the pampered Generation ME.

[edit on 5/28/2008 by Rockpuck]



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Yeah welcome to the nanny state of big government that wants to tell you that you cant spank or discipline your kids. Cant do this cant do that. You wont hear any disagreements here. I think the issue here is this is the teacher doing this. If the kids got together and did a vote like littles kids do this wouldnt be an issue. But the fact that a teacher did it thats what makes this wrong. Everyone gets some sort of crap from kids in school one fashion or another but you shouldnt have to get that same crap from a teacher. Their job is to teach not make fun.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Exactly. Everyone knows children can be meanspirited evil little cretins; it is expected. But a teacher doing that? That is way out of line and I would question the woman's judgement.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by jbondo
 



LOL, gotta love the over sensitive types..

Sarcasm......

Guess it's hard to detect over the internet, what ever.

I still say they had a right to vote the kid out. I wouldn't want my children learning in an enviroment where an autistic kid is disrupting class constantly.

Home school.


How would you feel if while at work, your boss called a meeting with every employee including yourself, and asked everyone what they didn't like about you, and then called a vote to have you fired, all while you have to sit there and listen?

It's like bizzaro world. Do you understand what that would do to a child? And worse, because of the child's young age, he doesn't even understand why it's happening.

Ever watch the movie, "The Truman Show"? Because that's what it would be like. Imagine waking up one day where everyone was against you. Imagine walking into a class, and seeing 2 lights on the ceiling, but everyone else tells you there are 3 lights on the ceiling, even though you can clearly see there are 2.

You would go mad.



[edit on 28-5-2008 by AgentStovkowski]



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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I have a feeling little Alex will go on to greatness as he grows up, while his tormentors (especially the pissant teacher) will remain as they are; small, shriveled souls...shopkeepers.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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Democracy works
. Of course, that was sarcasm (although I do believe that a real direct democracy is best, but in terms of government and not in something as small as this)
.





posted on May, 28 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by they see ALL
Democracy works
. Of course, that was sarcasm (although I do believe that a real direct democracy is best, but in terms of government and not in something as small as this)
.




Democracy gives the 51% majority to take the rights away from a 49% minority....you want a republic not democracy



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 08:47 PM
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Hmm, so the kid has a syndrome where he is probably very intelligent, but not so good in the people skills department. I know a whole lot of people like that.

How about this perspective, it was the teacher who disliked the little kid more than any of his classmates. People always want to give teachers the benefit of the doubt, but many teachers are nothing but bully's who teach because it gives them power over a group of children. Just maybe the real problem here is that the kid intellectually challenged the teacher and undermined her authority, and that is why she committed this dastardly deed.

Yeah, real democratic, everyone stand up and say what they don't like about little Alex, and then we will vote. Not only was this teacher leading the mob, she was tying the noose. Having been there and having dealt with my fair share of abusive teachers as a kid, I know there are plenty of teachers who have no place in a classroom, and this woman is clearly one of them. As an parent I have met my fair share of bad teachers, who clearly play favoritism and bully the students who they don't like. At five, though, it is hard to stand up for yourself when dealing with a bullying grown up. Chances are this five year old intimidated the teacher with his intellect, and so she went nuclear on him. If it was my kid, she had best leave town.

Most adults wouldn't be able to stand up to this kind of abuse. Let's line up your co-workers, have every say what they don't like about you, and then vote as to whether or not you should be allowed to keep your job. From my experience, most people who are highly critical of others live in glass houses, they can't and most often refuse to stand up to criticism.

I'll bet if they had a town meeting where everyone said what they don't like about this teacher to her face, and then voted whether or not she she be allowed to stay in town, she wouldn't last five minutes before breaking down in a pool of tears. Personally, I think that is exactly what she should get. It's called piling on, and it is a dirty social tactic among adults, for a Kindergarten teacher to pull this act on one of her students is beyond reprehension. She should be fired from her teaching position, and never allowed in a classroom for the rest of her life, unless as a student.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 09:21 PM
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I agree with both sides of this argument and will elaborate a little bit.

This in my opinion IS democracy. These children felt uncomfortable, threatened, and at times even abused by this child. Why should they have to endure that? Why should one child be allowed to ruin the educational experience of the other twenty or so children? Although I do not think they should have stated the reasons out loud while he was present, I do think the vote was a good idea to see how many children felt that he should be removed from class.

As for the excuse that Autism is to blame, here is my take on autism which I am sure I will catch a little for but I am just trying to be honest. A lot of these higher forms of autism to me started when parents were unable to discipline their children correctly. Aspergers was unheard of twenty years ago when you could get your hmmm kicked with a belt. Now these children are free to do whatever they want, behave however erratic both at home and in the classroom, and then have them chalk it up to higher functioning autism. Its the new ADHD. Most people with these behavior disorders are sadly under disciplined, spoiled children who act out when they dont get their way. I say bring back the ability to actually teach your children a leather lesson, and I am sure as hell they wouldn't try half the things they do these days. Heaven forbid I acted the way this kid did while in school, because the second my parents got a phone call home... lets just say it never happened again. Thats what so many children these days need - NOT more medication to treat all these nonexistent mental disorders.

Now, this does not pertain to the severe forms of autism and mental retardation, where its blatantly obvious the children have a problem and need special care. This only pertains to the ones that are labeled such because their parents dont know how to, or cannot control their child.

Now, why was a child with so many problems kept in a normal classroom to disrupt normal students who want to learn without his disruptions? That is the problem that should be looked at.

So many people always say that we should try to mainstream these autistic children and then complain when they get the same treatment any other disruptive student would get. You cant have it both ways. I remember having to stand with my nose on a chalkboard for 30 minutes, and if I moved, the counter started all over again. If you did this to an "aspergers" child, you would be almost crucified for your barbaric behavior.

I applaud this teacher for holding a democratic vote with her students to decide if the child was too disruptive in their opinion to be removed from the classroom. Now, I do not agree with the fact that all of their reasons were said out loud no matter how true they were - it should have been written on paper and put in a box. Either way, I wish this happened more when I was in school, and hopefully more teachers adopt this way of thinking and leave it up to the students to decide if a child is inhibiting their ability to learn enough to warrant removal. The teacher is not the one learning, the children are - so the children should be the ones who decide if they want to put up with it or not.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 09:26 PM
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I think this would be tough to get a Prosecutor to do but if it made it to a jury you would have more then a 50/50 at uprooting this teacher. This is a Missouri State Statue but I am sure there must be similiar statutes in the jurisidiction of the child.

ELEMENTS
A Person Commits the crime of abuse of a child if that person:
1. a. knowingly
b. infilcts cruel and inhuman punishment
c. upon a child less than 17

in the penalty section of the staute
PENALTY
CLASS C FELONY unless in the course of the abuse the defendant inflicts serious emotional injury on the child OR the offense is committed as part of a ritual or ceremony in which case the crime is a CLASS B FELONY.

the questions that I would deploy in the teachers defense are ok it is more than likely cruel but could we also define what she did as inhuman. Did she knowingly intend to be cruel meaning; with respect to her conduct or the surrounding cirumstances was she aware of the nature of her conduct. was she aware that her conduct was practically certain to cause the result.

As a prosecutor I would argue that she was aware of her conduct and that she not only knowingly was aware but that it was her desire to engage in that conduct or cause that result...if it wasnt than what did she think she was doing.... and of course it was cruel and inhuman especially to a child of the age of five...

This is disgraceful if a child is acting bad and you want to embarass them to a degree ok, but bringing the other kids into it to humiliatete a child she knew had a possible disability, she should not have been tranferred she should have been fired had her license suspendid and had to pay for any family recourse and take and refresher course on child psychology.

As far as a class C or B felony I think 7-15 years might be a little much, but she should most ceertainly be publicly reprimended and pay restitution of some sort to the family. Her actions are unacceptable



[edit on 28-5-2008 by birchtree]



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 09:27 PM
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One of my brothers in law has aspergers, and I can tell you that every freakin holiday, I would lover to vote him out. That being said, short of physical abuse, this is the most unconscionable behavior I have ever heard of by a teacher. THAT being said, I don't know how any teachers cope with their chosen profession. I literally get the cold sweats every time I go to my kids school and see all the little misbehaven wretches. I mean some of them are running around cursing and screaming. I don't know whether I'd rather haul them off by the ear, or their parents. It's unfortunate all around. The teacher was wrong, but maybe she was at her wits end. It's easy to judge when you haven't had a little out of control monster making your work life miserable for however long this had dragged on. But if this had happened to my kid, I'd sue too. End the end, everyone is equally responsible. The parents for not seeking a diagnoses before urged to do so by the school. The school for not separating children like this from normal children, so as not to negatively impact their educational experience, and with the teacher who, despite perhaps being driven nuts by this kid and totally sympathizing with the other kids who were being hurt by this, was totally in the wrong. On feeling the urge to do this, she should have sought professional help, and if not granted it, perhaps sought legal remedy against the school herself. These are all hard situations to be in and all of them had a part in it.

Peace.

reply to post by poet1b
 



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by birchtree
I think this would be tough to get a Prosecutor to do but if it mad it to a jury you would have a 50/50. This is a Missouri State Statue but I am sure there must be similiar statutes in the jurisidiction of the child.

ELEMENTS
A Person Commits the crime of abuse of a child if that person:
1. a. knowingly
b. infilcts cruel and inhuman punishment
c. upon a child less than 17

in the penalty section of the staute
PENALTY
CLASS C FELONY unless in the course of the abuse the defendant inflicts serious emotional injury on the child OR the offense is committed as part of a ritual or ceremony in which case the crime is a CLASS B FELONY.

the questions that I would deploy in the teachers defense are ok it is more than likely cruel but could we also define what she did as inhuman. Did she knowingly intend to be cruel meaning; with respect to her conduct or the surrounding cirumstances was she aware of the nature of her conduct. was she aware that her conduct was practically certain to cause the result.

As a prosecutor I would argue that she was aware of her conduct and that she not only knowingly was aware but that it was her desire to engage in that conduct or cause that result...if it wasnt than what did she think she was doing.... and of course it was cruel and inhuman especially to a child of the age of five...

This is disgraceful if a child is acting bad and you want to embarass them to a degree ok, but bringing the other kids into it to humiliatete a child she knew had a possible disability, she should not have been tranferred she should have been fired had her license suspendid and had to pay for any family recourse and take and refresher course on child psychology.

As far as a class C or B felony I think 7-15 years might be a little much, but she should most ceertainly be publicly reprimended and pay restitution of some sort to the family.



I'm quite sure they did not humiliate the child. I could see the reasons given looking a bit like this :

- He is constantly disruptive, He has assaulted me, He has made fun of me, etc..

In my opinion, I think it was a good idea to show the child how his seemingly benign actions have effected such a large group of people. If everyone but 2 people was against this child, he had to be quite persistent in his ways and also quite disruptive. Even a 50/50 split of the classroom would still warrant me to raise an eyebrow at how disruptive this child actually was.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


I agree with most of what you said but not the democratic process in the class, that is bolognia my friend

I will tell you why, how long before the kids think they can start voting out the next person and the next person or say even the teacher. I know that sounds rediculous but for something like that, what are the rules and where is the line. Dont forget how cruel kids can be, and if you teach them that ganging up on a student can get rid of someone then how long before they start making up stories and such.

If anything it is a republic where the teacher is the elected representative of those children, in this case those children are not old enough to make some decision that the teacher should of made with out demeaning the child, if she was unable to control the child then send him to the office and get his parents to pick him up. If it is an ongoing thing then the child can be sent home till the school or school board works out an alternative plan with the parent or parents. If this teacher cant make a decision about her class then she doesnt need to be teaching. PERIOD

I do totally agree with you on the medication and premature diagnoisis of all these children who prob need a good spanking and a little less time out....If that is even happening

[edit on 28-5-2008 by birchtree]

[edit on 28-5-2008 by birchtree]




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